Rumour that cousins has signed with port Melb on BF

[theghostfromgronggrong]

Said it before, if we pick up a drug addict loser like Cousins, that would be it for me, Saints wise.

I still believe that.

So Ric, You would let (in your own words) a 'drug addict loser' stop you from supporting your football team in which (going by your contribution to Satintsational) you are deeply passionate about?

The only person that loses out on that deal...Is you.

And wouldn't he be sorely missed?

Who'd knit Jason Gram his new woolly scarf?

[ausfatcat]

I just don't think he would be worth the hassel, maybe if he was 28 or below and had been playing footy.


But 30?
Basically no footy for two years?
With a history?
and with M Gardiner?
and Negative publicity involved?

Too many downsides not enough upsides.

We all know Burkie was a shade of himself when he got older and had time out of the games.

[Dan Warna]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Nice work there Dan, accusing his father of lying.

Change the record, the same tune's getting boring

surely you weren't one of those who believed his father when his father said cousins didn't have an addiction were you?

surely you weren't that naive?

sorry for you if you did get sucked in.

[Dan Warna]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Hope your kids never have any problems because from the sound of it you will not stick up for them. You sound like the most moralistic person I have ever heard.

Stick up for them i certainly would, tell lies on national TV? i hardly think so.

besides, how is my attitude anything to do with all those who got sucked into and believe ben cousins old man when he went on national TV and said his son wasn't a addicted. gosh all those folks who went around swearing cousins was clean and never addicted because daddy put his credibility on the line, must feel a tad sucked in yes?

[Dan Warna]

I support st kilda not the player.

I as a member would register quite strongly my opinion that I dont want ben cousins at st kilda.

clearly ric feels strongly about it too.

and before you go too far bagging him, remember he has invested a lot of time and money as have many other people, into the club and its his right to vote with his $$ on issues.

I suspect there are a lot of fans who would not be happy about cousins coming to st kilda.

[plugger66]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Hope your kids never have any problems because from the sound of it you will not stick up for them. You sound like the most moralistic person I have ever heard.

Stick up for them i certainly would, tell lies on national TV? i hardly think so.

besides, how is my attitude anything to do with all those who got sucked into and believe ben cousins old man when he went on national TV and said his son wasn't a addicted. gosh all those folks who went around swearing cousins was clean and never addicted because daddy put his credibility on the line, must feel a tad sucked in yes?

You will probably never get a chance to stick up for kids on TV but if you did would you say my kid is a drug addict and I want nothing more to do with him because what you should say with all the morals you go on with. And how would you know whether his Dad knew he was a drug addict. I could be an addict and my old man would have no idea.

[Dan Warna]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Hope your kids never have any problems because from the sound of it you will not stick up for them. You sound like the most moralistic person I have ever heard.

Stick up for them i certainly would, tell lies on national TV? i hardly think so.

besides, how is my attitude anything to do with all those who got sucked into and believe ben cousins old man when he went on national TV and said his son wasn't a addicted. gosh all those folks who went around swearing cousins was clean and never addicted because daddy put his credibility on the line, must feel a tad sucked in yes?

You will probably never get a chance to stick up for kids on TV but if you did would you say my kid is a drug addict and I want nothing more to do with him because what you should say with all the morals you go on with. And how would you know whether his Dad knew he was a drug addict. I could be an addict and my old man would have no idea.

well there you go then, according to your analogy you can't believe a word Ben cousins dad said, because ben cousins dad wouldn't know shyte about what cousins is up to, and thus anything he says about cousins being clean can't be taken as being of value.

thank you for proving my point

[CURLY]

Doesnt mean he lied though. Merely relaying to the people what he has been told.

[TimeToShineFellas]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Nice work there Dan, accusing his father of lying.

Change the record, the same tune's getting boring

surely you weren't one of those who believed his father when his father said cousins didn't have an addiction were you?

surely you weren't that naive?

sorry for you if you did get sucked in.

I don't suffer fools lightly Dan.

I am not a naive person either.

And I don't think highly of people who think they have a god given right to bag addict's families for trying to support an addict in getting off a drug of dependence.

Put yourself in his father's situation just for once if you can get off your moral high horse. What would you have said in his situation?

Would you have hung him out to dry or would you come out and publicly admit that your son is an addict?

I would like to see the quote where Cousins's father has out and out lied.

[plugger66]

again who is to believe that he is clean unless he undergoes substantial and longitudinal testing.

you'd be a naive fool to believe his word or that of his father.

and you'd be even more naive if you think the AFL testing program is any more than smoke and mirrors.

Hope your kids never have any problems because from the sound of it you will not stick up for them. You sound like the most moralistic person I have ever heard.

Stick up for them i certainly would, tell lies on national TV? i hardly think so.

besides, how is my attitude anything to do with all those who got sucked into and believe ben cousins old man when he went on national TV and said his son wasn't a addicted. gosh all those folks who went around swearing cousins was clean and never addicted because daddy put his credibility on the line, must feel a tad sucked in yes?

You will probably never get a chance to stick up for kids on TV but if you did would you say my kid is a drug addict and I want nothing more to do with him because what you should say with all the morals you go on with. And how would you know whether his Dad knew he was a drug addict. I could be an addict and my old man would have no idea.

well there you go then, according to your analogy you can't believe a word Ben cousins dad said, because ben cousins dad wouldn't know shyte about what cousins is up to, and thus anything he says about cousins being clean can't be taken as being of value.

thank you for proving my point

He answered questions in good faith. That is not lying. Noticed how you didnt answer the question if it was your kid because you either sound like a heartless person or a hypocrite. Which one is it Mr Morals.

[Dan Warna]

every time you say show where he said something that was patently proven wrong subsequently, its argued by those who defend brian that he didn't know, or was misled.

so even if he isn't a liar, you can't take anything he says as face value.

so whether you believe him or not its your call, but I don't place any value in anything that brian cousins says because according to you folks

he either didn't know the truth, was being misled, or covering up for his son, so chose to believe what you like, i for one won't believe anythign he says like...

[plugger66]

Thanks for answering my question.

[Dan Warna]

Thanks for answering my question.

your welcome, thank you for supporting my arguement that anything bryan cousins says regarding ben cousins is completely unreliable

[SENsei]

March 22, 2007

http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/news ... 51870.html

Bryan Cousins acknowledges Ben's problems to be from "substance abuse".

[plugger66]

Thanks for answering my question.

your welcome, thank you for supporting my arguement that anything bryan cousins says regarding ben cousins is completely unreliable

And thanks for telling me your either heartless or a hypocrite.

[mad saint guy]

I wouldn't haev aproblem with having a rehabilitated Cousins at St Kilda if not for Gardiner already being here. Individually I think they would be alright, but put them together and you're begging for trouble.

[theghostfromgronggrong]

It could be worse -

He could be gay!

Even worse -

A Gay forum comedian!!

[joffaboy]

There is some very disturbing hatefilled intolerance on this thread from people who should know better.

Really very distressing to see the dismissive hate. Where is the empathy, understanding or compassion.

FFS the guy kicks a flaming football, he isn't the spiritual leader of the country .

The guy is human hooked on a drug of dependence. I have see the effects first hand of drug dependance, and the devestating effect it has on a family. I wont go into details but it was a friend and the whole family is destroyed.

I hope I can support my kids in life if they get into difficulties, be it their gender, sexuality, drug dependance, or any number of lifes choices or mistakes they may make.

We are all human, we all have our own failings, we all have our own issues. None of us own the moral high ground. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes.

As for having him at the club. In a heartbeat. I give our players some credit that they are adults and can make their own decisions both in life and football careers.

Apparently some here haven't the same confidence in our playing group as adults and think they should be molly coddled and hidde away from the rest of society. Hmmmm nice way to breed complete dysfunction.

The football club is something to support. It does not mould your personal self worth or your self esteem as a supporter. If a player stuffs up using drugs, or assualting people, or sexual inappropriateness or a myriad other issues, it is not a reflection on you as a person.

I dont support the Saints because I want a bunch of choirboys as players. If you want that go join a church of some brand and moralise from its pulpit, not from the base as a nothing supporter of a provincial football club about a societial issue.

/RANT.

[Dan Warna]

It could be worse -

He could be gay!

Even worse -

A Gay forum comedian!!

why would I have a problem with a gay comedian being at st kilda football club? It certainly isn't illegal?

I can't see it being detrimental to the team, nor setting a bad role model for supporters?

i find it dissapointing so many see there being nothing wrong with consuming illegal drugs, breaking the WADA code on drug abuse, being addicted to drug of dependance, playing football while addicted to a drug of dependance, supporting gangsters and criminals publicly, etc.

[Dan Warna]

to Joffaboy

I do hope he is rehabilitated and addresses the issues that have been a problem to him.

I don't see it as st kilda's responsiblity to rehabilitate him, or invest in his potential rehabilitation.

I see him as a potential risk and the benifits do not outweigh the risks.

As I've said over the past few years, I see the current core list of players as more than capable of winning a premiership with a bit of luck, I don't think cousins adds that much to the mix, nor do I believe the potential, given his age, his attitude, outweight the costs of investing $$ in him.

Good on him if he can turn his life around and be a success or at least a law abiding citizen, I don't see it as my responsibility nor as the responsibility of the st kilda football club to contribute to that.

and to some degree, st kilda football club and football does reflect society's issues.

you'd be surprised at how kids copy their football stars, and you'd be suprised how teenagers mimic their idols.

St Kilda over the past decade has invested a lot of resources in developing the footballers we have OUTSIDE football, public speaking, financial management, diet, secondary and tertiary education, health promotion, family days, auskick etc etc.

i believe the management under Rod Butters has made st kilda a far more family oriented team than say 20 odd years ago.

my kids look forward to auskick at moorabin and going down to training when I have a day off and the like.

My son was very excited to have a photo taken with xavier clarke, robert harvey and others.

[Spinner]

That is my position. Like it or lump it, I don't care either way.

There is more to life than footy, and I have moral fibre that would prevent me from supporting a club that, indirectly or otherwise, condones drug use and abuse.

BTW with Gardiner, I have stated my unease at him on our list before, but is he a proven long term drug abuser? No, I don't think so.

As stated, this is my position, you have the right to disagree, but don't try to take the highground or rationalise your arguments to preach to me, it aint changing my mind.

Lol....Settle down mate. No ones taking the high moral ground or preaching for that matter....In fact I didn't even offer a personal opinion. More so however, just a further explanation on your's.

Between you and me, I don't care one bit on what you do in this sort of instance....Why would I. I don't even know you.

Furthermore....How is St Kilda condoning drug use by allowing a healthy Cousins to play football under it's colours? Do you want a running transcript of each players past, what they believe in or what they have done in order to ensure your supporting a football club that fits in with your moral values? They are people, before footballers. Certainly no club would condone drug use, but if you are so hell bent on making this 'stance' I suggest you explore the actions, beliefs and values of the rest of the team.

Because I'm positive there would be an abundance of reasons for you not to ever watch a game of football again.

And before you just down my throat proclaiming your 'moral fiber', be aware that at present I'm only exploring the flip-side on the comments you have offered.

[joffaboy]

i find it dissapointing so many see there being nothing wrong with consuming illegal drugs, breaking the WADA code on drug abuse, being addicted to drug of dependance, playing football while addicted to a drug of dependance, supporting gangsters and criminals publicly, etc.

Who are these people saying there is nothing wrong with it Dan?

Could you please direct me to the quote where people approved of these actions?

Please try to be not so simplistically black and white. It is not an either/or situation.

If the guy can rehabilitate and If playing football can help him recover, and If the people at the STKFC who are knowledgable and responsible, adults and know more about the club and its workings than you or I, deem it advantageous for Cousins to be at the club, If he has kicked his addiction, what is it to you?

Do you everyone to be punished forever for their wrongs? Should David Hicks still be held indetention? Should Terry Jenner not have a chance to rebuild his life?

Why are you so hellbent on denying a young man, a foolish, stupid, overindulged and arrogant young man, who has royally f###ed up, a chance of redemption?

Why are you so intolerant?

If Ross Lyon, and Greg Westaway and anyone in between deem it is in our best interests to have a player like Cousins at the club, I would put my faith in them more than you and your high handed, holier than though, stone throwing.

Furthermore, if anyone want to give up on the Saints because of a player selection, I say go, good, they were never really a Saints supporter anyway.

I have no problem with anyone going, free country.

Oh and I would really like a link to all those people you accues of having no problem with drug taking and associating with criminals please, you wouldn't want to lose your moral credibility by lying now would you?

[SENsei]

Terry Jenner?

[SENsei]

Have done some research and now know what joffaboy was talking about. My case in point....I never knew about it so there is a far amount of tolerance out there.

Another case of redemption:
Drew Barrymore

[Dan Warna]

i find it dissapointing so many see there being nothing wrong with consuming illegal drugs, breaking the WADA code on drug abuse, being addicted to drug of dependance, playing football while addicted to a drug of dependance, supporting gangsters and criminals publicly, etc.

Who are these people saying there is nothing wrong with it Dan?

Could you please direct me to the quote where people approved of these actions?

Please try to be not so simplistically black and white. It is not an either/or situation.

If the guy can rehabilitate and If playing football can help him recover, and If the people at the STKFC who are knowledgable and responsible, adults and know more about the club and its workings than you or I, deem it advantageous for Cousins to be at the club, If he has kicked his addiction, what is it to you?

Do you everyone to be punished forever for their wrongs? Should David Hicks still be held indetention? Should Terry Jenner not have a chance to rebuild his life?

Why are you so hellbent on denying a young man, a foolish, stupid, overindulged and arrogant young man, who has royally f###ed up, a chance of redemption?

Why are you so intolerant?

If Ross Lyon, and Greg Westaway and anyone in between deem it is in our best interests to have a player like Cousins at the club, I would put my faith in them more than you and your high handed, holier than though, stone throwing.

Furthermore, if anyone want to give up on the Saints because of a player selection, I say go, good, they were never really a Saints supporter anyway.

I have no problem with anyone going, free country.

Oh and I would really like a link to all those people you accues of having no problem with drug taking and associating with criminals please, you wouldn't want to lose your moral credibility by lying now would you?

sorry didn't DL the arguements from 12 months ago when this all happened and several folks were argueing the interpretation over the WADA code, and why ice shouldn't be a bannable substance, and why as long as he didn't take on match day he should be fine to do what he wanted, nor did I download the reams of posts by WCE fans on bigfooty who first denied he was on drugs, and then later said there was nothing wrong with ice anyway.

but even you must remember the reams of posts on this debate that went on firstly when cousins was exposed, then later when several folks were arguing we should draft him or recruit him however, before the AFL cut him adrift.

good on him if he works towards rehabilitation, but St Kilda i don't see how its st kilda's responsibility to be charitable towards ben cousins.

As I said, st kilda is bigger than any player, president, coach or manager, and long after cousins, or whoever is gone, st kilda will be still around.

I couldn't stand tim watson, tony francis and damien monkhorst and I bought my membership those years, and frankly glad to be rid of those three.

B4E clearly couldn't stand GT and to my knowledge bought his memberships those years also.

long after cousins is gone st kilda will be around.

as for coaches, presidents and whatever, I don't for a minute believe they are infallable, and I reckon Cousins is a risk, anything he says can't be taken at face value, neither can anything his father says be taken at face value.

so I raise the question right at the start does the VFL have a testing program, or does the AFL continue to test cousins to ensure he won't be doing drugs now and then gets a walk up start into a football club at the start of next year.

its not like I will believe what any cousins says unless there is a substantial body of evidence to support him. nor I believe should any club.

at the moment you pretty much have only his word he's clean as he dodged the drug test with anthony mundine on the supposed boxing bout.