Dear GT

[saintsRrising]

What I am debating, is the mistruths and nonsense that you conistently post about him, and his tenure. All designed to support the views (which have all now been proven to be incorrect) that you so arrogantly sprouted.

By whom..and where?

If you mean the article posted by OWTS it makes for an interesting read.

GT lures Jones to the club...and then later when coach cannot work with him.

GT also says in it that he knows nothing about conditioning...but he was the one that lured Jones and then went out and hired Larcom (without telling the Board and so GT and RB clashed on this..)

So GT lures Larcom...and then cannot work with him either.

What a sorry tale....no wonder GT's Training Services was such a mess.



It also fails in any way Rodge to refute that after GT and RB clashed on the injury rate that GT demanded responsibility for it.

[Teflon]

It amazes me in a thread bagging GT because of his comments on Harv's we could get a comment on Alves without a mention of his slandering of the great man.

I'm not surprised though. The same people that are GT's main critics also seem to speak glowingly of Alves. Talk about selective memory.

Alves I hold in utter contempt because of two main issues:

- his slandering of Harv's, Burke & Stewie blaming them for his sacking

- scapegoating Shanahan rather than accepting he was embarrassed by his lack of coaching nous on the biggest stage.


lol, "empower the players", yeah right.

Alves hasnt come out after 1 NAB CUP game and agreed with his girlfriend in the box that a deadset champions career is now "sad" to watch. This from an ex coach who ought to know better.

Its all opinions no doubt - I thought Lyon said it well today when he mentioned that but also noted that in HIS opinion Rob Harvey was a very damaging player...write him off at your own peril.

Some come on forums, after admitting not hearing the comments, then offer "whats the big deal" as their logiocal defence. Some bizarre people around....

[Teflon]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

As nice as that would be, I highly doubt the sad and lonely folk on here who dream about the man incessantly will ever stop talking about him.

Itd be a lot easier to stop dreaming bout the fat fool if he didnt advertise what a moron he was everytime he slid under the desk in radio land to service Dermutt only to come up gleefully agreeing with the Frankston fruitcake in a desperate bid for credibility....these two really are like Zig/Zag AFTER the expose.

[bigcarl]

Itd be a lot easier to stop dreaming bout the fat fool if he didnt advertise what a moron he was everytime he slid under the desk in radio land to service Dermutt only to come up gleefully agreeing with the Frankston fruitcake in a desperate bid for credibility....these two really are like Zig/Zag AFTER the expose.

if i didn't know you better teflon i'd swear it was almost personal between you and gt

[Teflon]

Itd be a lot easier to stop dreaming bout the fat fool if he didnt advertise what a moron he was everytime he slid under the desk in radio land to service Dermutt only to come up gleefully agreeing with the Frankston fruitcake in a desperate bid for credibility....these two really are like Zig/Zag AFTER the expose.

if i didn't know you better teflon i'd swear it was almost personal between you and gt

Its to do with St Kilda Carl.....ofcourse its personal!!!

[Teflon]

To be fair to Thomas, he has constantly stated that he never said that he doesn't rate ruckman, just that he doesn't rate crabbs. He attempted to get Cox to the club. You can critisise on his choice of Brookes and Ackland as rucks, but it is a myth that is peddled that he never rated rucks.

.

"Attempted."...they do not hand out flags for good attempts. What matters is who he brought to the club (and I do not mean with picks in the main draft as that is or should be par for the course).

Post Waldron GT floundered when he became ing of the Saints List Management Castle.

Yes...he would not have recruited King or Gardi...

He did secure Brooks, Knoble, Ackland and Rix......and for a rookies went for Stone an anothwr kid I cannot remember, but who was too short to bea good ruckmen without an exceptional leap. So GT's ruck legacy is?????? Squat all.

GT may have valued good ruckmen...problem is that the guy had absolutely no ability to sort the wheat from the chaffe
and came up empty every time. The law of averages did not even work for him....as he chose duds each and every time...and never backed a ruck winner.

Yet GT would have exited out Harvey at least two years early....and would have gotten rid of Milne.


GT as a spotter of guys that can have an impact at AFL level...............you have to be kidding.

He may be seeing signs.....but obviously cannot read!!!!

Now no one gets every call right...but GT calls were consistently poor.

The way you crap on, you'd think we'd finished 2 games out of the 8, let alont top 4 for 2 years in a row followed by only missing the top 4 by %.

Fair dinkum you're full of shiit.


To date, Ross Lyon has only showed that he can get a top 4 list to miss the 8. That's it.

So before we have to read pages and pages of your self-rightious bragging and lies, how about we wait and see if anything you and 'Ross' have implemented does us any good. Ok?

Wannker.

Im guessing by this post the new SS rules have been turned off?

[saintsRrising]

I ask again - what do you mean by GT taking responsibility, and how does this differ from what Ross Lyon has done?

http://www.afana.com/netpaper/oct102005-98494.html
Posted on: 10/10/2005 at 6:55pm ET

The sacking of Daniher and overhaul of training services were decisions recommended by Thomas and then endorsed by club chief executive Jim Watts.


So Rodger...once again GT set up training services as he wanted it. I have provided a quote for you above of how GT was recommending to the then CEO on overhauling training services.

GT was responsible for Training Services. The article posted by OTWS shows GT bickering with Larco who he appointed and then later fired.

RL to best of my knowledge did not recommend to the Board how our Conditiong set up would be.

RL pushed the previous Board to accelerate change in this regard as he deemed the then Board's rate of change unsatisfactory.

To the best of my knowledge the form of this was devised by Ross Smith and the AIS subcommittee charged to review our player conditioning and injury rate.

No doubt RL's relationship with Misson was significant in landing Misson. Misson however is only part of a broad range of changes.


So on the one hand we have GT...quote provided by OWTS as not knowing about player conditioning.. but making recommendations on how Training Services should be run.

vs

RL wanting change but leaving it to people who were experts in player conditioning to work out what was required....BUT RL kicking the Board up the bum to speed up the process.



If you cannot understand the vast differences.......well there is really no point us really continuing the discussion.

[Otiman]

I think TD would be absolutely fantastic to have around the club still. Nothing against John Barker, but I think TD could really get our forward line potent again.

Burkey is on the board now, and hopefully he can help the club from that position, and I'm extremely pleased with Rock and Silvagni as assistants, it shows in our structures how good these guys are. The forward line still lacks some cohesion though.

[JeffDunne]

Some come on forums, after admitting not hearing the comments, then offer "whats the big deal" as their logiocal defence. Some bizarre people around....

"Bizarre" is that some people still hang on his every word.

I'm not defending anyone, I just don't understand your (& others) pathological hatred for the bloke.

[JeffDunne]

Send him a google map.

[saint66au]

rodgerfox wrote:

I find it really sad watching Harves play.

It's sad that one day, we won't get the pleasure of witnessing what the guy does every week, and has done every week for the past 20 years.

Deadset legend.

Anyone who passes judgement on a player after a praccy match is a deadset scrotum, simpleton and a moron all rolled into one.


Mods, do I get 3 warnings for that? Is it just counted as 1?

No but calling sRs a wanker might have

[riccardo]

Hands up those who DIDN'T see this thread turning into a GT supporter Vs GT bagger slanging match?

Nobody?

I thought so.

Lets let sleeping dogs lie, shall we? GT is gone as coach, and is now paid to make comments that rile up the supporters so they listen to him, and we have Ross Lyon, and man who, from all evidence so far, is keen to have us finally live up to the expectancies that have been cruelled by bad luck thus far this decade.

I know I bashed Thomas earlier on, but I think its time to let it go. After all, if you keep focusing on the things behind you, you are bound to trip up somewhere.

[plugger66]

Hands up those who DIDN'T see this thread turning into a GT supporter Vs GT bagger slanging match?

Nobody?

I thought so.

Lets let sleeping dogs lie, shall we? GT is gone as coach, and is now paid to make comments that rile up the supporters so they listen to him, and we have Ross Lyon, and man who, from all evidence so far, is keen to have us finally live up to the expectancies that have been cruelled by bad luck thus far this decade.

I know I bashed Thomas earlier on, but I think its time to let it go. After all, if you keep focusing on the things behind you, you are bound to trip up somewhere.

Best post of the year. Finally someone making sense without turning into pro or anti GT.

[saintman666]

Id like to know what in the hell you are talking about, I never have nor never would abuse anyone about depression or any other serious matter. I dont know how you over heard me abusing Nathan Thompson about depression because I never would.

Besides the point why would you hijack this thread about Grant Thomas with groundless and baseless accusations of me and then threaten to do harm to me. If you would like to discuss any comments you belive or have been informed (incorrectly) I have made please PM me or email instead of accusing me on this forum. Which by the way accusations of this against me are quite hurtful.

I would like to finish by saying that I understand how serious depression is and I NEVER would abuse someone for being depressed. So St Fid is you would like to discuss anything of this nature with me please in future contact me through personal channels that are avalible. Thank you.
_________________

I AM FEELING DEPRESSED ALL THIS THOMMO BASHING....

[thejiggingsaint]

How about we drop this thread and concentrate on what is important i/e the coming football season!!!

[Solar]

am I the only one really over the whole GT thing?

[Spinner]

To be fair to Thomas, he has constantly stated that he never said that he doesn't rate ruckman, just that he doesn't rate crabbs. He attempted to get Cox to the club. You can critisise on his choice of Brookes and Ackland as rucks, but it is a myth that is peddled that he never rated rucks.

.

"Attempted."...they do not hand out flags for good attempts. What matters is who he brought to the club (and I do not mean with picks in the main draft as that is or should be par for the course).

Post Waldron GT floundered when he became ing of the Saints List Management Castle.

Yes...he would not have recruited King or Gardi...

He did secure Brooks, Knoble, Ackland and Rix......and for a rookies went for Stone an anothwr kid I cannot remember, but who was too short to bea good ruckmen without an exceptional leap. So GT's ruck legacy is?????? Squat all.

GT may have valued good ruckmen...problem is that the guy had absolutely no ability to sort the wheat from the chaffe
and came up empty every time. The law of averages did not even work for him....as he chose duds each and every time...and never backed a ruck winner.

Yet GT would have exited out Harvey at least two years early....and would have gotten rid of Milne.


GT as a spotter of guys that can have an impact at AFL level...............you have to be kidding.

He may be seeing signs.....but obviously cannot read!!!!

Now no one gets every call right...but GT calls were consistently poor.

The way you crap on, you'd think we'd finished 2 games out of the 8, let alont top 4 for 2 years in a row followed by only missing the top 4 by %.

Fair dinkum you're full of shiit.


To date, Ross Lyon has only showed that he can get a top 4 list to miss the 8. That's it.

So before we have to read pages and pages of your self-rightious bragging and lies, how about we wait and see if anything you and 'Ross' have implemented does us any good. Ok?

Wannker.

Im guessing by this post the new SS rules have been turned off?

Top post Saints Rising...Agree with you 100%

RodgerFox - Grant Thomas managed to make a top four side finish 8th.....

Ross Lyon didn't cause a Top 4 side to finish outside the 8, In actual fact he coached the side to one place lower than previous in only his FIRST YEAR as coach.....At least make an effort ot get the facts right instead of manipulating crap in order to support your argument.

And defending GT's performance in the drafting of ruckman?

Knoble, Rix, Brooks, Ackland.....Anyone that even attempts to defend that list of names hasn't got a clue.

Anyone that doesn't rate the value of ruckman on his ruck work alone has not played the game of AFL through the midfield. Around the ground work is just a bonus. Notice how it is only forwards/backs (KKP) in the media who don't value ruckman - Quality delivery from the midfield begins from the hitout (no matter how good a midfield) and forwards don't even begin to try and understand the differences of quality delivery and poor delivery.

[saint66au]

Im guessing by this post the new SS rules have been turned off?

Thanks Teffers...we are onto it.,..but thanks for caring

[bigcarl]

move on, all of you.

GT's long gone. That the men who removed him jumped ship before they themselves could be removed from office settles the score imo.

there's an exciting season to look forward to and we are one of the premiership favourites. let's talk about that instead of this tired old ground.

[rodgerfox]

RodgerFox - Grant Thomas managed to make a top four side finish 8th.....

Ross Lyon didn't cause a Top 4 side to finish outside the 8, In actual fact he coached the side to one place lower than previous in only his FIRST YEAR as coach.....At least make an effort ot get the facts right instead of manipulating crap in order to support your argument.

And defending GT's performance in the drafting of ruckman?

Knoble, Rix, Brooks, Ackland.....Anyone that even attempts to defend that list of names hasn't got a clue.

Anyone that doesn't rate the value of ruckman on his ruck work alone has not played the game of AFL through the midfield. Around the ground work is just a bonus. Notice how it is only forwards/backs (KKP) in the media who don't value ruckman - Quality delivery from the midfield begins from the hitout (no matter how good a midfield) and forwards don't even begin to try and understand the differences of quality delivery and poor delivery.

Huh??

We finished the H&A season % off 4th spot in 06.

In 07 we finished the H&A season in 9th spot.

This all considering that our draw in 07 was about 1000 times better than that of 06, plus the AFL pinched 2 points of us aswell.

No manipulation there. Just facts.

And who has defended GT's drafting of ruckmen?

Besides, I didn't say Lyon 'caused' a top 4 side to miss the finals. I said so far, all he's done is get a top 4 list to miss the finals. All he's proven to date.

The fact that we finished top 4 two years in a row, then finished only % off top 4 with the worst injury on the league, plus a terrible draw, plus having the 2 points that would have put us in the top 4 taken off us by the AFL - I think it's safe to say it was a top 4 list, don't you?

Now, please, if you want to keep harping on about GT, could you, SRS, Telfon and B4Eva please get a room and spare the rest of us.

For god's sake.

Give it a break.

[Spinner]

move on, all of you.

GT's long gone. That the men who removed him jumped ship before they themselves could be removed from office settles the score imo.

there's an exciting season to look forward to and we are one of the premiership favourites. let's talk about that instead of this tired old ground.

Not entirely for you bigcarl but it annoys me when a thread is made....and people use the old "lets just move on" card on top of perfectly good debate.

The thread is here. The topic is being written about.

If people don't want to write/read about this topic, then don't...no one is forcing anyone.

Obviously some people want to discuss a certain topic and they do so, particularly in the appropriate threads like this one.

.....GT's comments of a particular player caused this thread to be started...it is quite appropriate to contrast GT's coaching career, in particular his 'rating' of St Kilda players at the time with his current opinions to determine if he has any basis or talent on actually rating players.

I don't think he does....everyone is entitled to an opinion....but you are delusional is you believe everyones opinions is of the same worth. And I believe GT's opinion on anything football is worthless.

[rodgerfox]

move on, all of you.

GT's long gone. That the men who removed him jumped ship before they themselves could be removed from office settles the score imo.

there's an exciting season to look forward to and we are one of the premiership favourites. let's talk about that instead of this tired old ground.

Not entirely for you bigcarl but it annoys me when a thread is made....and people use the old "lets just move on" card on top of perfectly good debate.

The thread is here. The topic is being written about.

If people don't want to write/read about this topic, then don't...no one is forcing anyone.

Obviously some people want to discuss a certain topic and they do so, particularly in the appropriate threads like this one.

.....GT's comments of a particular player caused this thread to be started...it is quite appropriate to contrast GT's coaching career, in particular his 'rating' of St Kilda players at the time with his current opinions to determine if he has any basis or talent on actually rating players.

I don't think he does....everyone is entitled to an opinion....but you are delusional is you believe everyones opinions is of the same worth. And I believe GT's opinion on anything football is worthless.

The topic is about what Brereton and Thomas said about Harvey.

But yet again you, SRS, Teflon and co. hijack the thread with the same tired old nonsense about how Grant Thomas should get the death penalty for destroying our club.

Get over it. Move on. PM each other if you must screw up your bitter little faces and spew vitriol about someone who left the club 2 years ago!!

For god's sake. Move on. He's gone.

[Spinner]

RodgerFox - Grant Thomas managed to make a top four side finish 8th.....

Ross Lyon didn't cause a Top 4 side to finish outside the 8, In actual fact he coached the side to one place lower than previous in only his FIRST YEAR as coach.....At least make an effort ot get the facts right instead of manipulating crap in order to support your argument.

And defending GT's performance in the drafting of ruckman?

Knoble, Rix, Brooks, Ackland.....Anyone that even attempts to defend that list of names hasn't got a clue.

Anyone that doesn't rate the value of ruckman on his ruck work alone has not played the game of AFL through the midfield. Around the ground work is just a bonus. Notice how it is only forwards/backs (KKP) in the media who don't value ruckman - Quality delivery from the midfield begins from the hitout (no matter how good a midfield) and forwards don't even begin to try and understand the differences of quality delivery and poor delivery.

Huh??

We finished the H&A season % off 4th spot in 06.

In 07 we finished the H&A season in 9th spot.

This all considering that our draw in 07 was about 1000 times better than that of 06, plus the AFL pinched 2 points of us aswell.

No manipulation there. Just facts.

And who has defended GT's drafting of ruckmen?

Besides, I didn't say Lyon 'caused' a top 4 side to miss the finals. I said so far, all he's done is get a top 4 list to miss the finals. All he's proven to date.

The fact that we finished top 4 two years in a row, then finished only % off top 4 with the worst injury on the league, plus a terrible draw, plus having the 2 points that would have put us in the top 4 taken off us by the AFL - I think it's safe to say it was a top 4 list, don't you?

Now, please, if you want to keep harping on about GT, could you, SRS, Telfon and B4Eva please get a room and spare the rest of us.

For god's sake.

Give it a break.

I think its pretty difficult to argue that we had a top four list that 'managed' to finish 9th, when the year before we finished 8th.

2005 - 4th
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th

FACT: Lyon took a team that finished 8th...to 9th in his FIRST year as coach. With injuries.

Any talk about 'outside top four on percentage' is useless....top 4 is top 4, whether is be by percentage or games won....

Did Collingwood 'nearly' win a flag in 1966 by one point...Or did they finish 2nd??? -They finished 2nd. Clear and simple.

[bigcarl]

move on, all of you.

GT's long gone. That the men who removed him jumped ship before they themselves could be removed from office settles the score imo.

there's an exciting season to look forward to and we are one of the premiership favourites. let's talk about that instead of this tired old ground.

Not entirely for you bigcarl but it annoys me when a thread is made....and people use the old "lets just move on" card on top of perfectly good debate.

The thread is here. The topic is being written about.

If people don't want to write/read about this topic, then don't...no one is forcing anyone.

Obviously some people want to discuss a certain topic and they do so, particularly in the appropriate threads like this one.

.....GT's comments of a particular player caused this thread to be started...it is quite appropriate to contrast GT's coaching career, in particular his 'rating' of St Kilda players at the time with his current opinions to determine if he has any basis or talent on actually rating players.

I don't think he does....everyone is entitled to an opinion....but you are delusional is you believe everyones opinions is of the same worth. And I believe GT's opinion on anything football is worthless.

gt's comments on harvey were worthy of a thread. no argument with that.

it's just the constant bitching and in-fighting between the same few about the same thing that frustrates me. it's all been said ad naseum and no-one is making any ground in the debate.

imo it all died a natural death when butterss jumped ship before he would most certainly have been voted from office.

whether some would like to admit it or not, the key issue in RB's departure was the sacking of a coach who had brought us some success.

to me butterss' resignation was the end of the st kilda "civil war" which raged all of last season.

... a civil war fought between the butterss administration and its supporters and the memory of the coach who had brought us some success and his supporters.

to me some of these guys remind me of the japanese soldiers found on remote pacific islands in the 1950s who didn't realise that the war was over and still wanted to go on with it

[rodgerfox]

RodgerFox - Grant Thomas managed to make a top four side finish 8th.....

Ross Lyon didn't cause a Top 4 side to finish outside the 8, In actual fact he coached the side to one place lower than previous in only his FIRST YEAR as coach.....At least make an effort ot get the facts right instead of manipulating crap in order to support your argument.

And defending GT's performance in the drafting of ruckman?

Knoble, Rix, Brooks, Ackland.....Anyone that even attempts to defend that list of names hasn't got a clue.

Anyone that doesn't rate the value of ruckman on his ruck work alone has not played the game of AFL through the midfield. Around the ground work is just a bonus. Notice how it is only forwards/backs (KKP) in the media who don't value ruckman - Quality delivery from the midfield begins from the hitout (no matter how good a midfield) and forwards don't even begin to try and understand the differences of quality delivery and poor delivery.

Huh??

We finished the H&A season % off 4th spot in 06.

In 07 we finished the H&A season in 9th spot.

This all considering that our draw in 07 was about 1000 times better than that of 06, plus the AFL pinched 2 points of us aswell.

No manipulation there. Just facts.

And who has defended GT's drafting of ruckmen?

Besides, I didn't say Lyon 'caused' a top 4 side to miss the finals. I said so far, all he's done is get a top 4 list to miss the finals. All he's proven to date.

The fact that we finished top 4 two years in a row, then finished only % off top 4 with the worst injury on the league, plus a terrible draw, plus having the 2 points that would have put us in the top 4 taken off us by the AFL - I think it's safe to say it was a top 4 list, don't you?

Now, please, if you want to keep harping on about GT, could you, SRS, Telfon and B4Eva please get a room and spare the rest of us.

For god's sake.

Give it a break.

I think its pretty difficult to argue that we had a top four list that 'managed' to finish 9th, when the year before we finished 8th.

2005 - 4th
2006 - 8th
2007 - 9th

FACT: Lyon took a team that finished 8th...to 9th in his FIRST year as coach. With injuries.

Any talk about 'outside top four on percentage' is useless....top 4 is top 4, whether is be by percentage or games won....

Did Collingwood 'nearly' win a flag in 1966 by one point...Or did they finish 2nd??? -They finished 2nd. Clear and simple.

Sigh.

As I said, at the end of the 2006 H&A season we finished % off the top 4. At the end of the 2007 H&A season, we finished 9th.

Are you arguing that?

If you want to twist figures, let's simplify it.

In 06, we won 14 games. In 07 we won 11.

So, all Lyon has proven and achieved so far, is taking a list that won 14+ games for 3 years straight, to miss the finals with only 11 wins. Ok, is that better?

There's no point arguing it. It's fact.

Move on.