Dear GT

[Spinner]

What's the difference between this thread and spam?

It's all just repetition.

...Only a Pro GT supporter would say something like that....

[rodgerfox]

So you admit you lied?

No elaboration, nothing to back it up.

Typical.

No...I am factual.


It was well reported at the time and well known as well that RB and GT had strong disagreements and heated words about the conditioning and fitness management of our players.

After which GT demanded from RB and the Board responsibility.

This was given....

The sting in the tale for GT was that he also had to become accountable for our injury rate.

He failed.

What are you claiming means 'full responsibility'?

Did GT plan their fitness programs personally? Did GT request to the Board that the club hire the people who tailored these programs? Did GT hire them himself?

Please elaborate on what you're claiming.

You're stating this as fact because 'it was well reported at the time' huh?

[maverick]

It amazes me in a thread bagging GT because of his comments on Harv's we could get a comment on Alves without a mention of his slandering of the great man.

I'm not surprised though. The same people that are GT's main critics also seem to speak glowingly of Alves. Talk about selective memory.

Alves I hold in utter contempt because of two main issues:

- his slandering of Harv's, Burke & Stewie blaming them for his sacking

- scapegoating Shanahan rather than accepting he was embarrassed by his lack of coaching nous on the biggest stage.


lol, "empower the players", yeah right.

110% agree here, Alves I hold responsible for the 97 loss and the fallout afterwards.

GT had a crack,. I enjoyed the ride and I for one could not fault much of what he did at the time, especially early on. I was at the 04 prelim and the 05 qual in Adelaide, both games we had a crack and played well.

The 05 prelim was bad, and was a premieship lost in my mind, but we could hardly really blame GT.

Yes he made some questionable personel decisions in hindsight, but if Brooks didn't do his knee or even Gardiner didn't do his at WCE I wonder if GT may have a premiership or two by now??

It really was that close for this so called demon....

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on, I also find Bakes going out with his daughter a little weird

[rodgerfox]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

[saintsRrising]

What are you claiming means 'full responsibility'?

What do you think it means Rodger if in a workplace that someone has full responsibility and accountability for something?

It is pretty clear.

And no it does not mean that GT had to give all the warm down massages himself.

What it means is that GT had to ensure that the right processes and staff were in place to achieve the desire result.

GT failed.

[maverick]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

[rodgerfox]

What are you claiming means 'full responsibility'?

What do you think it means Rodger if in a workplace that someone has full responsibility and accountability for something?

It is pretty clear.

And no it does not mean that GT had to give all the warm down massages himself.

What it means is that GT had to ensure that the right processes and staff were in place to achieve the desire result.

GT failed.

Ok, based on your incredibly basic and half arsed explanation - how is that different to Ross Lyon getting Misson to Moorabbin?

How is it different to Lyon declaring what he was focussing on in terms of fitness and conditioning when he took over? Areas that he was addressing as he felt they were neglected areas?

[rodgerfox]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

As nice as that would be, I highly doubt the sad and lonely folk on here who dream about the man incessantly will ever stop talking about him.

[maverick]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

As nice as that would be, I highly doubt the sad and lonely folk on here who dream about the man incessantly will ever stop talking about him.

Yes sadly you probably are right

[saintsRrising]

Ok, based on your incredibly basic and half arsed explanation - how is that different to Ross Lyon getting Misson to Moorabbin?

How is it different to Lyon declaring what he was focussing on in terms of fitness and conditioning when he took over? Areas that he was addressing as he felt they were neglected areas?

There is a major difference.

GT demanded full responsibility and hence accountability for it...

Whereas Ross knew enough to know that the Saints were not up to scratch and demanded that the Board do something about it.


Comment: Ross also had the sense to know that he is the coach.....and that others need to worry about the conditioning side.

Ross also did not resist the appointment of Drain.

[JeffDunne]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

Why would he stop?

In fact, threads & issues like this are only going to increase his asking price in the market.

Rather ironic I know, but the haters are going to make him very successful in his new profession.

What do they say about who laughs last?

[maverick]

I don't hate GT, but I think he does need to move on

He's not Robinson Crusoe there.

No he'sot but he's driving the ship so to speak.
If he stops so do these threads

Why would he stop?

In fact, threads & issues like this are only going to increase his asking price in the market.

Rather ironic I know, but the haters are going to make him very successful in his new profession.

What do they say about who laughs last?

A radio station with about 2% of the audience will hardly keep his red wine fridge stocked.

When Channels 7 9 or 10 or even foxtel knock down his door then I think you have a point.

[JeffDunne]

For a station with 2% of the market he creates a lot of discussion.

I suspect their share of the football market is considerably more than that though.

[savatage]

To those people who have changed their opinions of GT since the Harvey comment.....Stop being fools.

A lot of the comments above state that "I used to think he was a good coach..." bulls***.

Make a determination about the games he coached.....Changing your opinion of his performance because he made certain comments is quite pathetic.

His comments have nothing to de with his performance as coach of St Kilda....

...and FYI I thought he was a useless coach, I just hate these simpletons who jump ship because of an unrelated incident.

Spinner, you hit the nail on the head there.

[rodgerfox]

Ok, based on your incredibly basic and half arsed explanation - how is that different to Ross Lyon getting Misson to Moorabbin?

How is it different to Lyon declaring what he was focussing on in terms of fitness and conditioning when he took over? Areas that he was addressing as he felt they were neglected areas?

There is a major difference.

GT demanded full responsibility and hence accountability for it...

Whereas Ross knew enough to know that the Saints were not up to scratch and demanded that the Board do something about it.


Comment: Ross also had the sense to know that he is the coach.....and that others need to worry about the conditioning side.

Ross also did not resist the appointment of Drain.

Ok, so we're slowly getting there.

Lyon, a rookie coach in his first gig had the sense not to resist a footy manager. Brilliant move that!! Bloody hell.


So 'Ross' doesn't worry about the conditioning of his players? Is that what you're saying? Is that difference between a coach taking responsibility and being accountable for the health of his list?


"Whereas Ross knew enough to know that the Saints were not up to scratch and demanded that the Board do something about it."

This comment is odd. Is that taking responsibility or not?

So Lyon goes to the Board and says "FFS, we are up shiit creek in regards to injuries! I'm not worried about the conditioning of players though, just wanted to vent"

Is that how it went?

Or more like this....

"FFS, we're rooted. I'm getting Misson - up your arse if you don't like it, you are approving it. He's good, trust me I've worked with him."

What if the Board said "No, too expensive. You'll work with what you've got."


What Lyon has done since he has arrived at our club, is exactly what Thomas did. He's taken responsibility for getting something done about our fitness. He's brought in his man. He saw a problem, and being unqualified to fix it himself, he poached the person he felt best for the job.

It is exactly the same thing.

The only difference - our new board back him and don't declare him accountable for something he can't himself control.

They let him have the credit for poaching him, but I guarantee you they won't hang him out to dry if we do give Misson the arse.

I'll also guarantee you that our supporters won't be stupid enough to blame the coach for our injuries next time either.

Well, most suporters.

[saintsRrising]

Ok, so we're slowly getting there.

.

At least we agree on something......that you are slowly getting there.

But you are way way to slow for me......

By the way...with Misson...you said "poaching".

Misson was moving to Melbourne...so he was not poached. The only question was which sporting club he would join.


Also.......even though you should know this...the changes are not just Misson..there are a swag of others including a new club Doctor.


But anyway...please continue on with your interesting view of the world.

Our opinions are vastly different on GT.

I rate him as incompetent...you I presume believe him to be competent.

That you choose to attack RL is your right. Go for it. Not his fault at all that Gt was exited out.

To me RL seems to be pretty switched on.

[stinger]

flower me....this thread plunges the depth of the distant past....get the f*** over it guys.....

[rodgerfox]

Ok, so we're slowly getting there.

.

At least we agree on something......that you are slowly getting there.

But you are way way to slow for me......

By the way...with Misson...you said "poaching".

Misson was moving to Melbourne...so he was not poached. The only question was which sporting club he would join.


Also.......even though you should know this...the changes are not just Misson..there are a swag of others including a new club Doctor.


But anyway...please continue on with your interesting view of the world.

Our opinions are vastly different on GT.

I rate him as incompetent...you I presume believe him to be competent.

That you choose to attack RL is your right. Go for it. Not his fault at all that Gt was exited out.

To me RL seems to be pretty switched on.

Nice attempt at changing topic.

I don't care about GT. He's gone. Now just another media dude whom I have no interest in.

What I do have interest in, is you elaborating and substantiating the lies and nonsense you've posted.

As I would expect, you have no substance to the rubbish you've posted and your above smokescreen proves it.

I ask again - what do you mean by GT taking responsibility, and how does this differ from what Ross Lyon has done?

[maverick]

For a station with 2% of the market he creates a lot of discussion.

I suspect their share of the football market is considerably more than that though.

Yes true, but the $$$$ would still be very minor, surely

[Oh When the Saints]

Thomas adds insult to injury
By Caroline Wilson
May 13, 2005

The inescapable conclusion from Grant Thomas' continued tendency to ruminate upon St Kilda's perhaps preventable injury woes is that Chris Jones, the fitness guru Thomas lured to the club when he was Tim Watson's football director, is unlikely to remain at Moorabbin beyond 2005.


Thomas denies as much and believes he is paying the price for honesty, but the truth is that while Chris Connolly might have broken the AFL coaches' code of conduct this week by attacking Terry Wallace, the Saints coach has broken a more subtle code by indulging in the blame game.


Thomas has now questioned the performance of his 'training services' team three times during the first seven weeks of the 2005 season. Angry at not being informed that several of his young players had taken caffeine before the Brisbane clash in round one, Thomas demanded to know why more than half his side had become dehydrated and cramped.


The following Monday saw a fiery meeting with Jones and his team, which now includes former Fremantle fitness chief Adam Larcom. Thomas has placed Jones on notice before, notably in his first year as coach, when the Saints' injury problems ranked as diabolical, but kept the faith. The pair clashed also in South Africa at the pre-season training camp.


Now, having lost Justin Koschitzke and Robert Harvey for up to one month apiece with recurring hamstring injuries, Thomas has - first after the loss to Geelong six days ago, then again two days ago - implied the injuries could have been prevented by a better performance from off-field staff.



The head coach who controls his football department more strongly than any other, Thomas has passed the buck in terms of fitness and conditioning, saying he has little understanding of it. Frankly, this is not good enough. If Jones is the wrong man for the job, it could be argued he should have gone long ago. If he is the victim of circumstances, he has been unfairly maligned.


Neither Thomas nor Jones would explain last night what Thomas had meant by the supposed communication breakdown that saw ageing dual-Brownlow medallist Robert Harvey selected for the Geelong game, only to re-injure his hamstring in the first half.


Now Harvey, like Koschitzke, will miss up to four games. Already it could be argued that the loss of Harvey, who had been in blitzing form against the Kangaroos in round three, could at least have contributed to two of the Saints' three defeats.


Others would argue that two relatively serious soft tissue injuries at any one time are to be expected for an AFL list. Having said that, St Kilda has never been better than average in terms of AFL club injuries since Jones' arrival and has often sat in the bottom four of all clubs. Is the Moorabbin surface too soft?


Or is Thomas, even subconsciously, searching for excuses now that the team he has assembled looks capable of a flag? Not according to the coach, or his president, or even Jones, who admitted last night to The Age that his was "the worst gig in league football: If a coach has 40 fit players then you've done you're job. If you have only 38 out of 40 then you've blown it.


"I don't feel threatened," added Jones, who has an employment contract with the Saints that can be terminated at the end of any season. "The pressure he is putting me under is not any more pressure than I would put on myself. I don't think Grant is so reactive to a situation that he would victimise someone. Perhaps victimise is too strong a word."


But Jones' version of the Harvey decision was interesting. "We are as thorough or more thorough in these things than any club in the competition," said Jones. "Last week, when we decided Robert Harvey was available for selection, we did so after the soreness in the muscle had been assessed as having returned to full strength and full power."

[rodgerfox]

Our opinions are vastly different on GT.

I rate him as incompetent...you I presume believe him to be competent.

I highly doubt you have any idea of my opinion of GT.

What I am debating, is the mistruths and nonsense that you conistently post about him, and his tenure. All designed to support the views (which have all now been proven to be incorrect) that you so arrogantly sprouted.

[rodgerfox]

Thomas denies as much and believes he is paying the price for honesty, but the truth is that while Chris Connolly might have broken the AFL coaches' code of conduct this week by attacking Terry Wallace, the Saints coach has broken a more subtle code by indulging in the blame game.


Thomas has now questioned the performance of his 'training services' team three times during the first seven weeks of the 2005 season.

Funny, isn't it.

The 'blame game'. If a coach loses footy matches, he gets caned. If the reason for those losses are injuries to his star players, he still gets caned. If he suggests that his fitness staff are not providing him with fit players and not doing their job well - he's playing the 'blame game' and he's a bad guy. If he takes responsibility and accountability for it, then he's wrong too.

What is left? What do you do?

[Teflon]

Thanks JB, but I'm still in the dark on what he actually said that was so bad.

I heard the grab of Dermie's rant replayed on SEN. Typical *sniff* Dermie *sniff*.

I expect irrational comments from him and is comments were embarrassing. I also heard GT on SEN after the event, including yesterday, but for the life of me I'm struggling to see why people are outraged or even surprised on his view.

Interestingly, GT yesterday talked up the influence of Gardiner & King in the ruck even though he's the first to admit he wouldn't have drafted them.

GT has theories on list management that are well known, he also has theories on team reliance on individuals. It was why he took the captaincy off Harv's in the first place. He would point to the example of Collingwood on Buckley's retirement as evidence of his theory. There's validity to some of his arguments but I also disagree on others.

Clearly GT thinks Harv's has played one season too many. I disagree but it really doesn't surprise me. It also doesn't change my view on GT. I knew his views on this years ago.

Having said all that though, I'd still like to know what exactly he said other than he saw signs of him losing his touch late last year.

He said he also felt Dermotts comments "were about right" in reference to Harvey and in essence agreed with Dermuts views. What more would/could you require to understand than that?

I

[Teflon]

I find it really sad watching Harves play.

It's sad that one day, we won't get the pleasure of witnessing what the guy does every week, and has done every week for the past 20 years.

Deadset legend.

Anyone who passes judgement on a player after a praccy match is a deadset scrotum, simpleton and a moron all rolled into one.


Mods, do I get 3 warnings for that? Is it just counted as 1?

That buys you a free beer.

[savatage]

Thanks JB, but I'm still in the dark on what he actually said that was so bad.

I heard the grab of Dermie's rant replayed on SEN. Typical *sniff* Dermie *sniff*.

I expect irrational comments from him and is comments were embarrassing. I also heard GT on SEN after the event, including yesterday, but for the life of me I'm struggling to see why people are outraged or even surprised on his view.

Interestingly, GT yesterday talked up the influence of Gardiner & King in the ruck even though he's the first to admit he wouldn't have drafted them.

GT has theories on list management that are well known, he also has theories on team reliance on individuals. It was why he took the captaincy off Harv's in the first place. He would point to the example of Collingwood on Buckley's retirement as evidence of his theory. There's validity to some of his arguments but I also disagree on others.

Clearly GT thinks Harv's has played one season too many. I disagree but it really doesn't surprise me. It also doesn't change my view on GT. I knew his views on this years ago.

Having said all that though, I'd still like to know what exactly he said other than he saw signs of him losing his touch late last year.

He said he also felt Dermotts comments "were about right" in reference to Harvey and in essence agreed with Dermuts views. What more would/could you require to understand than that?

I

Send him a google map.