a goal-kicking forward line

[Ghost Like]

Totally agree bigcarl, he will be the key to our forward line success. Hopefully he can continue with his aerobic conditioning and be able to run nearly as hard as Roo which will make him very hard to stop.

This is where we need some stability (& luck with injuries) in the back half and the ruck so Kosi doesn't have to fill holes.

If we can have the G, Roo and Kosi as the targets with the other positions being filled with rotating mids who can tackle, chase and kick goals themselves then yes, we will kick a higher score than the oppo more often than not.

[bigcarl]

This is where we need some stability (& luck with injuries) in the back half and the ruck so Kosi doesn't have to fill holes

agree. he's potentially too valuable to our forward set up to be filling holes in the ruck and backline. barring disastrous injury problems hopefully it won't come to that as we have reasonable depth elsewhere, imo

[Barney2]

we fell down badly in 2007 in not being able to kick winning scores

imo this was partly because of RL's dubious "numbers behind the ball" philosophy/game plan, which, in effect means that we didn't really have permanent forwards save for fraser.

i'd like a return to a more traditional set-up in which we have a forward line that is capable of turning opportunities to goals.

i'd set up something like this:

C: Gram, Hayes, Gilbert
HF: Goddard, Riewoldt, Dal
F: Milne, Kosi, Schneider

some will say we'd be robbing peter to pay paul by throwing resources forward like that; dal's too important on the ball; kosi can't play ff, we need him around the ground etc, etc.

but consider this: you can't win football matches if you can't put a score on the board.

i like the look of the wings here. gram and gilbert both get plenty of the ball and would be continually launching goalwards with long, direct kicks

thoughts anyone

You can't have that structure in the forward line-Milne and schneider up goal like that. Schneider can play mid foelds too so play him HFF. Kosy Forward pocket. . Dedl- What are you thinking playing on a HFF? Put him in the guts. We also need Monty on the wing. King can play in ruck until rested, then Kosy can take over. Take King Off, rest Kosy on Forward line. otherwise good

[bigcarl]

troll

[milney044]

i like bigcarls set up there.. i'd probably just put harvs in dals position instead. but i gather by putting dal there he doesnt actually mean he'll play the majority of the game there anyway.

i dont see what's wrong with having two small forwards, seemed to work pretty well in 2004. at least now with Schneider we have a few options.. if the 2 small forward set up isnt working we can put Schneids in the midfield. if Kos isnt coping at FF we'll put him in the ruck and king or Gardi can play up forward and obviously there's Frase to consider.. I'm loving the unpredictability our new recruits are bringing to the team, there's many different lineups that hold different positives.

just bring on 2008 already.

[bigcarl]

this new search function is great ... bump

(riewoldt as) a star CHF is more useful than a gun wingman. Kosi can't be relied on to hold down CHF. He doesn't have the engine and isn't all that durable.

Playing at CHF riewoldt might average 18 disposals, 10 marks (several contested), 3 goals and 3 goal assists.

since we tend to direct nearly every attack at riewoldt you'd expect him to rack up quite a few touches

we actually almost need him to perform at least that well every week for us to be any sort of a chance

imo one of our greatest strengths ... riewoldt ... is also a glaring weakness, often exploited by opponents, and we have become, at times, pathetically reliant on him.

it still counts as a goal to st kilda even if roo doesn't kick it

we need a much more even spread of goal-kicking options and, imo, kosi playing as a permanent forward is just a start.

i probably don't need to remind you that we were the lowest scoring team in the entire afl last year.

we were 14th in the league for converting inside 50s to goals and had just three guys who kicked more than 30 for the season.

geelong were first and had five.

i do agree with you, however, that roo should stay a forward rather than a winger, even though he'd be very, very good in that position.

the challenge is to fit roo, fraser and kosi into the same forward line.

all are top players and team-minded and there has to be a way for this to translate to more goals for st kilda and a forward line that is more efficient at turning opportunities into goals

that's my rant

[Armoooo]

I keep changing my mind on our forwardline, but I am still thinking that we can have all 3 in there, if we want unpredictability we need all three players to lead in different directions, with Milne and Schneider roaming around looking for crums, our biggest problem has been that we go to Roo way to often when he was 2 or 3 players on him, this year if anyone double teams Roo that means either Kosi or G will be unmanned or at the very least Schneider or Milne, we need to find the open player, not the best player, Roo is good enough to get free enough throughout the game to still kick a few goals....

The most important factor is developing a gameplan that can play to our strengths and that is our forward line, I would also like to see a lot more shots from outside 50 from our midfielders, because a shot from outside 50 is probably better than kicking into a pack 40M from home, even if they don't get the carry hopefully we can have a player waaiting under it to cause a contest...

[plugger66]

I keep changing my mind on our forwardline, but I am still thinking that we can have all 3 in there, if we want unpredictability we need all three players to lead in different directions, with Milne and Schneider roaming around looking for crums, our biggest problem has been that we go to Roo way to often when he was 2 or 3 players on him, this year if anyone double teams Roo that means either Kosi or G will be unmanned or at the very least Schneider or Milne, we need to find the open player, not the best player, Roo is good enough to get free enough throughout the game to still kick a few goals....

The most important factor is developing a gameplan that can play to our strengths and that is our forward line, I would also like to see a lot more shots from outside 50 from our midfielders, because a shot from outside 50 is probably better than kicking into a pack 40M from home, even if they don't get the carry hopefully we can have a player waaiting under it to cause a contest...

Bally should never kick from outside 50 and probably not Lenny. Happy for Joey and Dal to have afew shots though.

[bigcarl]

if anyone double teams Roo it means either Kosi or G will be unmanned or at the very least Schneider or Milne

we need to find the open player, not the best player

i believe you've hit the nail on the head there armoo.

[james rose]

Code: Select all

Milne         G/Resting Ruckman         kosi (pinch hit in ruck if struggling)


Clarke        Roo                               Gilbert

I think this is quite a balanced foward line

[bigcarl]

Bally should never kick from outside 50 and probably not Lenny. Happy for Joey and Dal to have afew shots though.

ball's pretty handy from a closer range, though. i remember him kicking a few against hawthorn when played in a pocket this year.

perhaps he and schneider could be interchangeable at times

[plugger66]

Bally should never kick from outside 50 and probably not Lenny. Happy for Joey and Dal to have afew shots though.

ball's pretty handy from a closer range, though. i remember him kicking a few against hawthorn when played in a pocket this year.

perhaps he and schneider could be interchangeable at times

If Bally is playing forward for more than 10 minutes a game then he still has a bad case of OP. He is a natural onballer and must play there if fit.

[bigcarl]

If Bally is playing forward for more than 10 minutes a game then he still has a bad case of OP. He is a natural onballer and must play there if fit.

he's a natural on-baller who is also pretty handy close to the goals.

let's not neglect actually putting a score on the board like we did last year.

[mad saint guy]

i probably don't need to remind you that we were the lowest scoring team in the entire afl last year.

And I don't need to remind you that we were the highest scoring team (or very close to it) from 2004-2006.

The only loss from that period is Hamill (who was regularly injured). Guerra is replaced by Schneider.

The forward line setup isn't a big issue. We have Riewoldt who is a star CHF, Gehrig who is a good FF and Kosi who has shown some signs of potentially being a good FF. Milne is a good small forward and we should get about 40 goals in total from Schneider and X.Clarke. We have plenty of scoring options and have had for several years, we just need to get the ball down to them more accurately and more often.

If West Coast can mke two grand finals with forward lines consisting of Lynch, Hansen, Armstrong, Sampi and Staker then we should manage just fine with Riewoldt, Gehrig, Koschitzke, Milne and Schneider. It is the midfield we need to focus on improving, not the forward line.

[bigcarl]

The forward line setup isn't a big issue. We have Riewoldt who is a star CHF, Gehrig who is a good FF and Kosi who has shown some signs of potentially being a good FF. Milne is a good small forward and we should get about 40 goals in total from Schneider and X.Clarke. We have plenty of scoring options and have had for several years, we just need to get the ball down to them more accurately and more often.

the "forward line set-up" is a big issue.

for a start kosi played much of last season in the ruck, not the forward line.

so if you're including him as a permanent forward you're effectively saying there was a problem with the "forward line set-up" and it is, in fact, an issue

in 2007 we were again much too heavily dependent on riewoldt, so much so that we were 14th in the league at turning inside 50s into goals.

perhaps making kosi a permanent forward will help reduce this unhealthy reliance.

but i wouldn't stop there. i'd like to see us have five 30-plus goal-kickers like geelong of last year.

i agree with you that quick and direct delivery will help a lot, and in fact is vital when you have strong marking forwards like ours

x clarke doesn't kick enough goals for mine (or hasn't thus far).

[plugger66]

The forward line setup isn't a big issue. We have Riewoldt who is a star CHF, Gehrig who is a good FF and Kosi who has shown some signs of potentially being a good FF. Milne is a good small forward and we should get about 40 goals in total from Schneider and X.Clarke. We have plenty of scoring options and have had for several years, we just need to get the ball down to them more accurately and more often.

the "forward line set-up" is a big issue.

for a start kosi played much of last season in the ruck, not the forward line.

so if you're including him as a premanent forward you're effectively saying there was a problem with the "forward line set-up" and it is, in fact, an issue

in 2007 we were again much too heavily dependent on riewoldt, so much so that we were 14th in the league at turning inside 50s into goals.

perhaps making kosi a permanent forward will help reduce this unhealthy reliance.

but i wouldn't stop there. i'd like to see us have five 30-plus goal-kickers like geelong of last year.

i agree with you that quick and direct delivery will help a lot, and in fact is vital when you have strong marking forwards like ours

x clarke doesn't kick enough goals for mine (or hasn't thus far).

Im with MSG. There was one major problem with the Saints last year and it wasnt the forward line. It was how the ball was delivered from the midfielders and the backline. That makes the forward set up look poor.
Midfields win flags just look at the last few years and the B&F results from the winning sides.

[Armoooo]

I keep changing my mind on our forwardline, but I am still thinking that we can have all 3 in there, if we want unpredictability we need all three players to lead in different directions, with Milne and Schneider roaming around looking for crums, our biggest problem has been that we go to Roo way to often when he was 2 or 3 players on him, this year if anyone double teams Roo that means either Kosi or G will be unmanned or at the very least Schneider or Milne, we need to find the open player, not the best player, Roo is good enough to get free enough throughout the game to still kick a few goals....

The most important factor is developing a gameplan that can play to our strengths and that is our forward line, I would also like to see a lot more shots from outside 50 from our midfielders, because a shot from outside 50 is probably better than kicking into a pack 40M from home, even if they don't get the carry hopefully we can have a player waaiting under it to cause a contest...

Bally should never kick from outside 50 and probably not Lenny. Happy for Joey and Dal to have afew shots though.

You're right about Ball and probably Lenny, but there is still Dal, Joey, Harvey, Fiora, Gilbert, Goddard, Gram, S.Fisher, Xavier and others...

[|Andy|]

i probably don't need to remind you that we were the lowest scoring team in the entire afl last year.

And I don't need to remind you that we were the highest scoring team (or very close to it) from 2004-2006.

The only loss from that period is Hamill (who was regularly injured). Guerra is replaced by Schneider.

The forward line setup isn't a big issue. We have Riewoldt who is a star CHF, Gehrig who is a good FF and Kosi who has shown some signs of potentially being a good FF. Milne is a good small forward and we should get about 40 goals in total from Schneider and X.Clarke. We have plenty of scoring options and have had for several years, we just need to get the ball down to them more accurately and more often.

If West Coast can mke two grand finals with forward lines consisting of Lynch, Hansen, Armstrong, Sampi and Staker then we should manage just fine with Riewoldt, Gehrig, Koschitzke, Milne and Schneider. It is the midfield we need to focus on improving, not the forward line.

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

[mad saint guy]

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

If Lyon is a better coach than GT (which is accepted as fact around here) then he should have no problem getting the team to score more goals than we did under Thomas.

[Oh When the Saints]

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

If Lyon is a better coach than GT (which is accepted as fact around here) then he should have no problem getting the team to score more goals than we did under Thomas.

The most important change from 2004-05 to 2007 is that we lost half our starting 22.

[bigcarl]

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

If Lyon is a better coach than GT (which is accepted as fact around here) then he should have no problem getting the team to score more goals than we did under Thomas.

exactly. nothing less than a top 4 finish is acceptable imo given the firepower we have at our disposal

[|Andy|]

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

If Lyon is a better coach than GT (which is accepted as fact around here) then he should have no problem getting the team to score more goals than we did under Thomas.

but arent sydney well known for their defensive style of play?? isnt ross lyon from sydney?? didnt the players have to change to a different game plan??

[bigcarl]

you forgot the most important change we had from 2004-06 / from 2007...
we got a new coach ...

If Lyon is a better coach than GT (which is accepted as fact around here) then he should have no problem getting the team to score more goals than we did under Thomas.

but arent sydney well known for their defensive style of play?? isnt ross lyon from sydney?? didnt the players have to change to a different game plan??

sydney doesn't have gehrig, kosi and riewoldt in its forward line and i reckon ross is smart enough to realise that with guys of that calibre up there quick, long and direct delivery is essential.

we need a gameplan that suits our particular strengths ... a glut of good tall forwards

[mad saint guy]

The most important change from 2004-05 to 2007 is that we lost half our starting 22.

2005 regular 22

B: S.Fisher, Hudghton, Voss
HB: Jones, Maguire, Goddard
C: Dal Santo, Hayes, Powell
HF: Harvey, Riewoldt, Hamill
F: Koschitzke, Gehrig, Milne

Foll: Ackland, Ball, Baker
Int: Blake, R.Clarke, Peckett, Thompson

Missed most of the year through injury: Penny, X.Clarke

2007 regular 22

B: Gilbert, S.Fisher, Attard
HB: Gram, Maguire, L.Fisher
C: Baker, Hayes, Montagna
HF: Havey, Riewoldt, Fiora
F: Milne, Gehrig, X.Clarke

Foll: Koschitzke, Ball, Dal Santo
Int: Birss, Blake, Rix, Voss

Missed most of the year through injury: Hudghton, R.Clarke, Hamill, Goddard, M.Gardiner

From the regular team of 2005 to 2007

OUT - IN
Hudghton - Gilbert
Jones - Gram
Goddard - L.Fisher
Thompson - Montagna
Peckett - Fiora
Hamill - X.Clarke
Powell - Birss
R.Clarke - Attard
Ackland - Rix

There are plenty of changes, but most are very balanced. The most uneven ones are L.Fisher for Goddard, which is evened out by Montagna for Thompson. These even changes to the side aren't an excuse for going from the best goalkicking team in the comp to the worst, especially considering most of the changes are either backup midfielders or defenders.

[bigcarl]

Code: Select all

HF:  Clarke             Roo            Gilbert

don't mind the idea of gilbert forward in a six-man set-up.

he's actually not all that bad a kick for goal. statistically, from the little we've seen of him playing forward, he's no worse than other candidates like schneider, x or bj

some might say it would make the forward line too tall.

but since many on here were talking him up as a possible on-baller last year (he's quick and certainly no mug when it hits the ground) i'd see his height as being just an added bonus.

he'd provide a very good foil for roo across half forward and his height, along with "The 3 Divas" would stretch opposition tall defenders to the absolute limit. surely one of them will get on top of his opponent and kick a bag on any given day

imo we'd be better served playing x at half back.

however should one of our key defenders go down it might be gilbert who has to step in.

he's a very versatile player, deceptively strong and quick