next full back?.....

[kickittokosi!!!!]

Hi guys,
not a regular poster... but felt this was worth a post.
I'm awake watching the syd v saints game were we lose last season...
but focussing on the positive...
i can't help but noticing how good of a job Rix did on Everitt & Gilbert did as a floating defensive player (particularly in 1st half).
I know he's not popular, but i think Rix as a 3rd or 4th ruck option next year is fantastic backup (hopeful not needed).
Plus, all these worries about a future full back or key pos player, are a little premature.
Gilbert is very impressive... like a young maxie... fast and clever...
and i think is the perfect replacement.
is he to short?...
to valuable on the wing?...
is there someone better?...
thoughts...

PS, Merry Xmas all.

[Lynch Beast]

Full Backs are over rated, genuine 6 person defence with a midfield that keeps the pressure on is more effective.

Glass is awesome because he is isolated so often and the midfield of 05/06/07 was so bloody unaccountable. Your new coach has the right idea, midfield puts the pressure on and it doesn't matter how good your power forward is, if the midfield isn't putting the ball to advantage then he isn't going to kick 5 goals.

A good stopper is a good stopper regardless of height (look at Leo Barry and cambel Brown) can usually get one from late in the draft or the rookie draft. Glass is one of the few genuine full backs to be taken in the first round and actually make it, would never look for a full back with a first round pick but rather turn a tall flanker into a decent negator
Concentrate on drafting serious quality midfielders and the team will improve MUCH faster.

Look at the teams that have won grand finals in recent years and then have a look at the midfield pressure that they were able to apply. Can have the best defence in the league but if the opposition midfield is getting the ball in fast and clean then they have no chance

Very impressed by Gilbert though, like a better offensive Goldsack and would make a great modern day defender.

[Solar]

good question, and it was one focused on during the drafting process.

Personally I think that maguire could become a very good full back. If he focuses on just keeping on his man and learning to spoil a little better he could fit in nicely. Would allow his lack of turning mark and reduce mobility because of the broken leg to not effect his play as much.

I could forsee a back six in the last month of 2008 as

baker maguire fish/dempster/max
raph chips gilbert

gilbert allows us the flexability to play the likes of maguire at full back. He like max can play on talls and shorts.

[sasaint]

Unfortunately I think that Goose is no better than 50:50 to come back which is a dissapointment as he has loads of potential. In that case I think that we still have a very good and modern back six in

Baker, Max, Gilbert
Raph, Chips, BJ

What is so dangerous about this group is the potential for rebound out of defence. Of course we need Max, Raph and BJ to be fully fit for this to work but that is why Mission is being so careful in pre-season. And Dempster will probably take Baker's spot for the first ? weeks.

[LTN16]

is he to short?...

He is defantly not to short to play Full Back at 194cm he is the perfect height.

[Armoooo]

IMO The fullback is dead, just like the full forward, you just need the right height... you can't go in with 6 shorts or 6 talls you need a nice mixture...

I believe that our round 1 backline will look like this:
L.Fisher Hudghton Dempster
Goddard Maguire S.Fisher
I/C: Gilbert

By next year I believe it will be
Attard Maguire L.Fisher
Goddard S.Fisher Gilbert
I/C: Geary (Hopefully)

Those two teams have the right balance of height, defensive ability, skill and offensive ability... IMO they both would be in the top 3 or 4 backlines in the league... We also have Baker and Gram to throw about...

The amazing thing about the second backline is how young it is, that backline could stay the same for 5 or 6 years, we could focus all our first second and third round draft picks on midfielders, rucks and forwards...

[big_mac_evoy5]

i would say we have plenty of talls defenders developing.

sam fisher: next to take full back
furgeson: can play tall not a bad player but needs to get better
allem: the club loves this kid massive raps he is a key posi player who can go both ends but he might be next to take fb he is more of a defender then a forward.
khan heartaku( not sure on spelling): rookie listed. plays defence and is about 195cm

we have plenty comming through

[Barney2]

Why did everyone leave Grammy out

[ausfatcat]

Why did everyone leave Grammy out

As a full back?

[Harvey To Hayes]

Why did everyone leave Grammy out

Fair point. Best rebounding HBF we have had for years. Unless posters see him moving further upfield?

[Huzzad]

Some people seem to think Raph Clarke should be there instead of Grammy....guess some of us havel been drinking a bit too much eggnog this Christmas....From what I've seen from him this year, I wouldn't even put him on the bench.

[Otiman]

As I see it now, we have a few on our list with the body size to do it.

Jarryd Allen - Good, but not quick enough, would be run off his feet in an endurance sense.
Sam Gilbert - Fantastic speed and probing arms, will want to be used as a running linebreaker.
Glenn Chivers - Good size (if he grows some more), interesting prospect.
Luke Miles - Has the athleticism to do it. Whether he can read AFL level play will be another story. Is our biggest chance, imo.
James Gwilt - Backup of backups, lacks height but might be good with sufficient support from the other defenders, see 2007 game vs swans (his brownlow vote getting game).
Sean Dempster - Don't know much about him, but he has the height and endurance, can play anywhere from FB (at a stretch) to Tagging Midfielder. Think of him as a more accountable Jason Blake.

[Bono]

I'd love to see Michael Hurley (Northern Knights / Vic Metro) at full back for the Saints but unfortunately we will probably need to finish outside the eight this season to get him, as he will be a top pick and go early.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Why did everyone leave Grammy out

Fair point. Best rebounding HBF we have had for years. Unless posters see him moving further upfield?

Interesting statement. He's the immediate successor to Aussie Jones, who was a better rebounding HBF than Gram as recently as '04...

[ausfatcat]

BAM don't you know people have short memories

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I suspect some of the people here are underrating the importance of a good fullback. Probably because in recent memory, we've had 2 very good fullbacks who don't get much recognition.

Had Penny's knee's not given way, he was really coming into his own during the '04 season. He could take on the best and win regularly. Had he and Hammill not had their careers cut short, we'd be calling GT a genious for his long term contracts now... instead, especially this one ended up looking silly, but Penny didn't get a lot of fanfare as the structure employed a lot of teamwork from the talls, and Maguire and Jones took what press the defense got in '04.

Max Hudghton is one of the best fullbacks going around. His injuries lin '07 really, really hurt. Maxxy simply never gets beaten (Neitz has done him from long range a couple of times, but that's all I can recall off the top of my head). IIRC in '06 from twice as many inside 50s against as AA Glass, he gave up half as many goals. Basically, to beat Max Hudghton you've got to kick multiple goals from 55m plus, because you're unlikely to get more than 2 marks inside 50 and he'll beat you on the ground too. While he doesn't rebound (and hence get the recognition) of a Glass or a Scarlett, when Penny called it a day, we had the luxury of going directly to Max.

A healthy Hudghton in '08 will immediately improve our GA, more than any other individual. When one player can do that, you cannot discount the value.

[Otiman]

For sure, Max in '08 will be the key, but people are looking beyond that, because Max may have anywhere between 1 and 3 years left in him.

[Huzzad]

Max Hudghton is one of the best fullbacks going around. His injuries lin '07 really, really hurt. Maxxy simply never gets beaten (Neitz has done him from long range a couple of times, but that's all I can recall off the top of my head). IIRC in '06 from twice as many inside 50s against as AA Glass, he gave up half as many goals. Basically, to beat Max Hudghton you've got to kick multiple goals from 55m plus, because you're unlikely to get more than 2 marks inside 50 and he'll beat you on the ground too. While he doesn't rebound (and hence get the recognition) of a Glass or a Scarlett, when Penny called it a day, we had the luxury of going directly to Max.

A healthy Hudghton in '08 will immediately improve our GA, more than any other individual. When one player can do that, you cannot discount the value.

I love Maxy as much as anyone and think he is one of the best FBs in the game at the moment. But he gets beat a fair bit, in form or not. I think your evaluation of him is a little starry-eyed. I love Maxy as much as anyone but he gets a fair few holding-the-man penalties against him and been beaten in the air or on the lead coutnless times. However, all good FBs get beaten. Otherwise, no one would ever kick goals. Maxy is a champ and a great FB, but to say he never gets beaten is just a tad rediculous.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

penny was useless as and extremely overrated as a full back or anything

he was slow...couldnt spoil to save himself and in addition he was soft as butter

he played like he didnt want to get his hands dirty

[Huzzad]

penny was useless as and extremely overrated as a full back or anything

he was slow...couldnt spoil to save himself and in addition he was soft as butter

he played like he didnt want to get his hands dirty

I must admit, the games I did see of Penny, I was yelling at him more than I was praising him. I admit, I thought he was a joke, but I didn't see alot of matches that year, so to be fair, I probably never saw him at his best. But I certainly wasn't complaining when he retired. Goose walks all over him.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

penny was useless as and extremely overrated as a full back or anything

he was slow...couldnt spoil to save himself and in addition he was soft as butter

he played like he didnt want to get his hands dirty

I must admit, the games I did see of Penny, I was yelling at him more than I was praising him. I admit, I thought he was a joke, but I didn't see alot of matches that year, so to be fair, I probably never saw him at his best. But I certainly wasn't complaining when he retired. Goose walks all over him.

where were you a few years ago when i was getting hung out to dry for criticizing him???

glady to see there are a few of us out there

[plugger66]

penny was useless as and extremely overrated as a full back or anything

he was slow...couldnt spoil to save himself and in addition he was soft as butter

he played like he didnt want to get his hands dirty

I must admit, the games I did see of Penny, I was yelling at him more than I was praising him. I admit, I thought he was a joke, but I didn't see alot of matches that year, so to be fair, I probably never saw him at his best. But I certainly wasn't complaining when he retired. Goose walks all over him.

As a genuine FB penny is twice the player Goose is. As a CHB goose is a better pick but as we are talking FB I would have penny thgere before Goose. Doesnt really matter though does it. Next FB might not even be at the club yet but I hope so. Cannot see any though.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Max Hudghton is one of the best fullbacks going around. His injuries lin '07 really, really hurt. Maxxy simply never gets beaten (Neitz has done him from long range a couple of times, but that's all I can recall off the top of my head). IIRC in '06 from twice as many inside 50s against as AA Glass, he gave up half as many goals. Basically, to beat Max Hudghton you've got to kick multiple goals from 55m plus, because you're unlikely to get more than 2 marks inside 50 and he'll beat you on the ground too. While he doesn't rebound (and hence get the recognition) of a Glass or a Scarlett, when Penny called it a day, we had the luxury of going directly to Max.

A healthy Hudghton in '08 will immediately improve our GA, more than any other individual. When one player can do that, you cannot discount the value.

I love Maxy as much as anyone and think he is one of the best FBs in the game at the moment. But he gets beat a fair bit, in form or not. I think your evaluation of him is a little starry-eyed. I love Maxy as much as anyone but he gets a fair few holding-the-man penalties against him and been beaten in the air or on the lead coutnless times. However, all good FBs get beaten. Otherwise, no one would ever kick goals. Maxy is a champ and a great FB, but to say he never gets beaten is just a tad rediculous.

Simple response, who are these people who beat him? Neitz did it twice in '06, and Max wasn't himself in '07, but seriously, Hudghton rarely gives up more than 2 goals to an opponent, and almost never more than 3.

Who's beaten him between '04 and '06 that I'm leaving out? (Beaten in my book = 4+ goals to the FF, 3 goals = break even, 2- i give the win to the FB. Good FB regularly keeps the FF down, good FF regularly gets 3+).

On the lead, he only tends to get beat outside 50, otherwise his closing speed is as good as anyone possibly bar Glass (who has a knack for turning FFs inside out and marking so often I honestly wonder whether he has quiet footsteps or something)... which is how Neitz got him in '06.

I'd have to go back to the stat books to prove it (what I'm really hoping is some other industrious soul will do it for me) for me, but I'm actually more than happy standing by the statement that a healthy Hudghton simply doesn't get beat inside his own 50.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

penny was useless as and extremely overrated as a full back or anything

he was slow...couldnt spoil to save himself and in addition he was soft as butter

he played like he didnt want to get his hands dirty

I must admit, the games I did see of Penny, I was yelling at him more than I was praising him. I admit, I thought he was a joke, but I didn't see alot of matches that year, so to be fair, I probably never saw him at his best. But I certainly wasn't complaining when he retired. Goose walks all over him.

where were you a few years ago when i was getting hung out to dry for criticizing him???

glady to see there are a few of us out there

Goes back to why I originally posted into this thread. Penny was never stylish, but extremely effective, and only just hitting his prime when his knees gave in. IIRC he got done a couple of times in '04 (Lloyd kicked 7 on a night where roo kicked 7 and G kicked 8?), but won far more than he lost... I don't really count the games he did play in '05 as I don't think he was ever truly fit, but I recall us missing him when he was out in '03.

Fullbacks rarely get to be the hero. I'd rather Max, but we were very lucky to have Max waiting when Penny called it a day... if nothing else, watching Gwilt get his trial by fire and lose week after week should have shown this in '07 (which is not to say Gwilt could not learn to be a good FB - I think he has the tools, but I think it would take some significant pain to get him there).

[Animal Enclosure]

I'd love to see Michael Hurley (Northern Knights / Vic Metro) at full back for the Saints but unfortunately we will probably need to finish outside the eight this season to get him, as he will be a top pick and go early.

Hurley will probably play CHF for the Knights in 08 & dominate... one of the most versatile KPP juniors in recent history. And a mad Saints' supporter too (loves his lookalike Rooey!)