FRANKSTON DEAL NOT DONE YET

[Oh When the Saints]

According to the Sports Minister on SEN early this afternoon, the Government is just revising the fine details of the proposal and is "confident" of approving the funding soon.

[St Fidelius]

BERNARD SHAKEY...... you arrogant flowering TOOL!!!

Where do you fit into the food chain to go bagging Frankston, Kananook and Seafod????

When did you last check out the developments happening in all 3 suburbs??

Where do you think Bonbeach, Chelsea, Edithvale, Aspendale, Moordialloc and Parkdale were at 5 years ago? - it was scorned

Where wer Sandringham, Highett and Hampton at 15 years ago?? - no one wanted to live there.

Slag off Frankston and surrounds now.... see where they are in 5 years!

You are an ignorant twat of the highest order - with zero foresight.

Don't worry about him mate...

let him play with his Hay Bale Rolling and Gum Boot throwing comps over in Greendale

What else do you do in Greendale with those Gum Boots

[Eastern]

After hearing James Merlino, sports minister on SEN earlier today saying that Archie had given him a very detailed update/proposal re the Frankston development I WOULDN"T BE SURPRISED IF ARCHIE HAS SCREWED A FEW MORE $$$$$$$$$ OUT OF THE STATE GOVERNMENT !!

[rexy]

The funniest thing about this whole thread is that Cranny and Franga are only 15 minutes apart, Who cares where we settle as long as we get a good deal and improved facilities. There both Bogan towns that are growing and improving all the time as the freeways etc improve and make them more accessible to commuters. Its not like AFL players are training 12 hours a day or even 8 hours a day so a little bit of travel is hardly going to kill them.

[saintspremiers]

After hearing James Merlino, sports minister on SEN earlier today saying that Archie had given him a very detailed update/proposal re the Frankston development I WOULDN"T BE SURPRISED IF ARCHIE HAS SCREWED A FEW MORE $$$$$$$$$ OUT OF THE STATE GOVERNMENT !!

I hope you are right.

Bracks was incapable for 7 years of doing anything right, was shytehouse at managing projects and delivering on time and within budget.

F*** the state govt, screw them to the bone.....they should be grateful they don't have to build this project, otherwise it would happen in 2020, at the earliest.

[spert]

As long as they pull that hideous deacaying multistorey old office block down in the middle of Frankston on Nepan Hwy, then the place will probably boom in the next 10 years

[casey scorp]

As long as they pull that hideous deacaying multistorey old office block down in the middle of Frankston on Nepan Hwy, then the place will probably boom in the next 10 years

Is that the Peninsula Centre, the tallest building in Frankston (in fact on all of the Peninsula according to a newspaper report last week), to which you refer? I think they want to turn it into another hotel.

[casey scorp]

Mayor's key issues
10Dec07


FRANKSTON'S new mayor, Alistair Wardle, lists the environment and local employment opportunities as his priorities for the next 12 months.

And if he can combine the two, he will.
``One of the areas I will be pushing is to attract renewable energy-type businesses into the industrial parks of Carrum Downs and Seaford,'' he said.
Cr Wardle, 40, is Frankston born and bred and lives with his wife Joy in his late parents' home in Frankston South.
He attended Derinya Primary School and the former Baxter Technical College (now Mt Erin Secondary College) before completing Year 12 at The Peninsula School. After completing a psychology degree at Monash University, Cr Wardle worked as an organisational and educational psychologist.
He spent a couple of years as a youth worker at Frankston Council and four years as an employment consultant working with local businesses to generate jobs.
``I had a 95 per cent success rate in putting young people into the workforce,'' he said. Cr Wardle originally became involved in public service through objecting to multi-unit development.
``A number of people asked me to stand for office as a councillor, so I did. I was elected as a councillor to South West Ward two years ago,'' he said.
``I've had a ball as a councillor. Now, as a mayor, I think I will be very busy being the interface between the councillors, the council and the community.''
Outgoing mayor Cr Glenn Aitken thanked his colleagues for not making the job as hard as they could have.

http://www.frankstonleader.com.au/artic ... _news.html

Not much mention there about getting the Saints into Frankston. The mayor sounds like a former community activist, opposed to overdevelopment.

[Mr Magic]

As long as they pull that hideous deacaying multistorey old office block down in the middle of Frankston on Nepan Hwy, then the place will probably boom in the next 10 years

Is that the Peninsula Centre, the tallest building in Frankston (in fact on all of the Peninsula according to a newspaper report last week), to which you refer? I think they want to turn it into another hotel.

The story I heard is that it is going to be converted into apartmants?

[Oh When the Saints]

casey scorp, the Frankston mayor was (rightly) very pleased at the press conference when announcing the fact that his council had secured an AFL club.

Of hundreds of municipalities in Australia, his is one of 16 lucky enough to have an AFL presence, and he was smiling and happy at the press announcement.

[casey scorp]

As they say a week is a long time in politics.

The Mayor at the announcement was Cr Glenn Aitken.

However, on 3 December 2007, he was replaced by Cr Alastair Wardle.

It is the new Mayor who didn't make much mention about getting the Saints into Frankston in his key issues, and who sounds like a former community activist, opposed to overdevelopment.

[St Fidelius]

As they say a week is a long time in politics.

The Mayor at the announcement was Cr Glenn Aitken.

However, on 3 December 2007, he was replaced by Cr Alastair Wardle.

It is the new Mayor who didn't make much mention about getting the Saints into Frankston in his key issues, and who sounds like a former community activist, opposed to overdevelopment.

I really think you need to have a step back and forget about the Saints going to Casey IMO

You do seem to be a tad bias in what you post IMO

even by you desperate need to post this in CAPS..

Give it a break IMO FFS

I could have scanned and posted pics of Nick and others on the Frankston Beach with the Mayor and others but really why bother

[casey scorp]

You are correct - I am biased. I've never hidden that.

I happen to have a view that Casey Fields would have been a better long term option for St Kilda FC than either Linton Street or Frankston.

I accepted that others had a view that redeveloping at Linton Street was better than moving, but I considered that Casey Fields was a better option than Linton Street and often posted accordingly.

I also thought it likely that a relocation was on the cards, despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity about redevelopment at Linton Street.

No doubt some thought my views were heretical.

I happen to think that the Frankston deal has a few holes in it despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity - there are all sorts of hurdles to jump. While some may think me heretical again, I think you will find that the hurdles will pop up regularly.

There are some real issues to be overcome.

Say I'm biased and you'd be right, but that alone doesn't justify putting your head in the sand.

[Eastern]

You are correct - I am biased. I've never hidden that.

I happen to have a view that Casey Fields would have been a better long term option for St Kilda FC than either Linton Street or Frankston.

I accepted that others had a view that redeveloping at Linton Street was better than moving, but I considered that Casey Fields was a better option than Linton Street and often posted accordingly.

I also thought it likely that a relocation was on the cards, despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity about redevelopment at Linton Street.

No doubt some thought my views were heretical.

I happen to think that the Frankston deal has a few holes in it despite all of the club, Council and State Government publicity - there are all sorts of hurdles to jump. While some may think me heretical again, I think you will find that the hurdles will pop up regularly.

There are some real issues to be overcome.

Say I'm biased and you'd be right, but that alone doesn't justify putting your head in the sand.

Hey casey scorp !!

Your ability to look at this situation objectively in the face of your self-confessed bias is truly refreshing. I read with interest your thoughts that there are still hurdles to overcome and hope that they can be without too much bereaucratic or political interference.

My view is;

The decision has been made and it appears that it cannot/will not be reversed. We all need to accept it and move on (as I think you have). The way this has gone so far it appears that we have an excellent negotiating team working on the project, and the deal could even get better.

As you said, there are still some hurdles to overcome. Lets hope the wind blows them over before we get to them !!

[saintspremiers]

So it's idiotic Mayors again that are holding things up eh???

Well they can all go and fork themselves and have one great big Mayoral gang-bang as far as I'm concerned!

[casey scorp]

The way this has gone so far it appears that we have an excellent negotiating team working on the project, and the deal could even get better.

I agree our team is negotiating well. Where you say the deal could get better, I think the reality is that it will have to. There is $9.25 million cash for the development (after allowing the $1 million Council contribution of the land).

You'd struggle to build a single integreated training/admin facility for that much. Separating the project into two separate buildings creates diseconomies, and the parking construction costs for the office building will just be phenomenal (unless the parking requirements are waived).

The upshot will be that someone will have to contribute extra funds. Currently the mix is:

AFL - $2.55million
State Govt - $3.45 million
Council - $2.0 million
St Kilda - $1.25 million

The Saints don't have much more money (if they even have the $1.25 million). The deepest pockets are the State Govt and the AFL. The likeliehood is that there will have to be additional contributions.

This of course works to the benefit of the Saints because:

* they get better facilities
* they get a higher valued asset.

If the parking is waived, the value of the asset will be higher than the construction cost because the market pays for sq metre of office space (which to exist, has usually had to fork out considerably for parking).

[casey scorp]

There is an interesting letter on the website of the Frankston Dolphins, which I’ve only seen today for the first time (although the page is dated 22 November 2007).

The letter talks about the development being completed by the 2011 season, rather than the 2010 season which has been otherwise publicised.

It also confirms that parking is a major issue, with 4 of the 12 points in the letter relating to car parking. In particular, from a physical capacity to accommodated parked vehicles:
• All parking associated with the SKFC administration office is to be provided by SKFC on Lot 5 Plowman Place in accordance with town planning requirements.
• Council will provide sufficient parking space for SKFC players and football staff within Frankston Park or immediate surrounds.

These are some key design issues (amongst a few others which I have previously referred to) which will have the designers scratching their heads for a while yet.

The letter in full:

This is a positive outcome for the community as the social, marketing, tourism and economic benefits of having a national brand located within the City are significant. There is tremendous potential to leverage these advantages for the overall benefit of the City.

In short, the proposal for St.Kilda Football Club’s (SKFC) facilities will include the construction of a 1200m² (approx) administration office on Lot 5 Plowman Place and a 2700m² (approx) football training facility within Frankston Park by 2011. The key aspects of the proposal in regard to Frankston Football Club (FFC) are as follows.

• The premises currently leased to FFC will not be affected by the proposal unless otherwise agreed by the Council and only after consultation with FFC.

• All parking associated with the SKFC administration office is to be provided by SKFC on Lot 5 Plowman Place in accordance with town planning requirements.

• Council will provide sufficient parking space for SKFC players and football staff within Frankston Park or immediate surrounds.

• The 14 parking spaces utilised by FFC for its social premises are not affected by this proposal.

• Council will commission a parking and traffic study for the precinct which will aim at improving short term parking with close access to Frankston Park.

• The design and location of the SKFC training facility will be undertaken in collaboration between SKFC and Council, and FFC and other stakeholders will be consulted as part of the process.

• No gaming or social facilities will be located by SKFC within Frankston Park or Lot 5 Plowman Place.

• FFC will have access to the training facilities such as stadium, gymnasium, hydrotherapy pool etc, as agreed by SKFC.

• Council is determined to protect FFC’s use of Frankston Park and that FFC not be seriously disadvantaged. Usage of the oval shall be agreed upon via an annual plan with quarterly reviews in collaboration with SKFC and FFC with Council as the mediator.

• SKFC will have signage rights to Frankston Oval but Council will ensure that FFC’s income levels for signage are not reduced. Council retains naming rights to Frankston Park.

• FFC shall retain catering rights at Frankston Oval except within SKFC premises and for SKFC events such as practice matches or family days. Catering access by FFC to such SKFC events can be negotiated directly with SKFC.

• SKFC, FFC and Council will work collaboratively and in good faith to ensure that FFC’s and SKFC’s current sponsorship agreements are not negatively impacted as a result of SKFC’s relocation to Frankston Park.

Council greatly values FFC as an important part of Frankston’s community and sporting landscape and has sought to ensure that there will be no disadvantage to FFC as a result of the proposed co-tenancy arrangement. Additionally, Council has also formally resolved to work with the FFC to address the Club’s long term financial position and to explore revenue opportunities including expanded social facilities.

Council looks forward to further developing its relationship with FFC and to exploring new partnership opportunities so that FFC continues to prosper well into the future. SKFC has likewise expressed the desire to commence the development of a strong relationship with FFC and welcomes the opportunity to have further discussions in the near future.

George Modrich
ACTING CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER
Frankston City Council

[Oh When the Saints]

Mountain out of a molehill.

[snoopygirl]

Hard enough to get a parking spot in the vicinity now OWTS. I avoid shopping in Frankston for this very reason. God help them on Family Day & Intra Club games.

[casey scorp]

We've just been given the go ahead for getting the plan submissions drawn up for the Frankston project. I can't say anything more....sorry

St Luke, how is the design work going for the new project?

St Luke, still haven't heard back from you about those plans. Is it because it's all a bit of a disaster?

What with the existing buildings, narrow site, new building height limits, carparking requirements, views to the bay to be preserved, heritage issues to be addressed. What will emerge next?

[Oh When the Saints]

You should work in government casey scorp ... you spin minor issues into major sounding problems very well

[saint66au]

Absolutely no disrespect meant caseyscorp, good on ya for sticking to your dream, but you are starting to sound like one of the Albert Park protesters who still clung to the hope of the GP being moved for years and years

We are going to Frankston, NOT to Casey...its as good a given thing as anything I reckon

Snoops, whats with this parking biz? I passed through there at 4.30 last Sunday afternoon. Was a ghost town LOL. My choice of parking spots and had to walk 3 blocks to find somewhere that was open to buy a cold drink

[GeorgeYoung27]

I now live two streets from Frankston oval and was wrapped to hear the "Saints are coming". It is a great part of Frankston and often see the Dolphins training and running the "Frankston Tan" (around the lake).

In response to caseyscorp, has he actually been down there to look at the ground. While there is no carpark like Casey (which is too small for big games anyway), there is plenty of parking around the ground, the park opposite and in the surrounding streets (much like Moorabbin in the old days).

Also I was really surprised how much room there actually is between the goals and the fence at the beach end of the ground where they are building the training facilities.

I think the main issue is the small block of land where they have to build the admin center which I believe also has to contain parking for all admin staff and visitors. It is really quite small.

[casey scorp]

No disrespect taken at all.

I’m not the protesting type, but I can spot a planning dilemma at 20 paces. And this is a big one.

There’s all these statutory matters which impose legal requirements, and they’re not easily shifted – particularly when the natives get restless. They may be able to be addressed, but it will take time and effort if there are opponents (which I hear there are).

And it’s a local government election year. The alternative candidates will be looking for issues to establish their credentials with a point of difference to the incumbents, and opponents of the project will be able to stir things up knowing that incumbent Councillors will get nervous.

Now the parking thing is a real issue. Don’t go there at 4:30 on a Sunday afternoon when the place is dead (unless the Dolphins have just played at home).

But do go there mid-week during business hours, which is when:

• the admin building will be full of staff
• the players, coaches, fitness staff and others will all be at the training complex.

Then think of 80 more cars to be parked for these people.

Then think about the 20 or so spaces which are already on the Council block of land which will be lost to local business parking when the St Kilda admin building goes on it.

People can choose to ignore the issues at an early stage, but they won’t go away. And the stakes will get higher as the deadline approaches.

And that's just parking.

[Mr X from the West]

Let's hope they just get on with it.

I was recently in MEL and took the kids down to Moorabbin. What a dump. The players must get really depressed every time they drive into that s*** hole. How we are supposed to compete in the AFL with such inadequate resources is beyond me.

Bring on Frankston (or any other venue which is not Moorabbin).