Whats the Big Panic!!

[peter lockwood]

There arev quite a few posters on this site that are getting very twitchie as regards to our new sponsership.
Westaway and his ticket told us prior that they had sponsers lining up,what is there to say he is bluffing.He said that he wanted to put more money into the players and their facilities.
He,s been on for around 4 months and has found us a new home which will have state of the art facilities,got us a crack crew of medical staff and has paid off both Sammy and Gt along the way.Something the board through all there preaching failed to do.
Lyon and his men have worked wonders as regards to list management,getting rid of players that were taking up space the likes of Brooks and Raymond and replaced them with King and Schneider all for 1 pick really.Whilst Giving us some much needed depth with the bonuses of Gardner and Dempster.Draft day we were givin want we have wanted for ages and thats a 1st round pick ruckman in Mcevoy and a couple of new midfielders.
Until it was mentioned in the papers and on tv would anyone here of thought that old G train would be going around again, I would say no and thats my point in a nut shell just because you dont hear much it doesnt mean its not happening.
For me its refreshing to see the likes of the Kangaroos,Eagles and Pies getting the all the press for the wrong reasons and not our boys or adminstration copping it.
From what we have all heard membership packs are better,players and workers are happy we are all systems go and all heading in the same direction,hopefully to hold up the cup next september.
We will get a sponser soon and all will be good DONT PANIC!!

[Saints Premiers 2008]

agreed entirely...things are progressing quite nicely in my opinion

rome is building

[stinger]

[riccardo]

Yeah, Rome wasn't built in a day, but it took mere HOURS to destroy it.

A pertenant lesson, I feel.

[chook23]

Hope like hell that McEvoy is a longterm longtime class ruckman.........

as you say a 1st round draft pick...............BUT SO WAS

BROOKS

[GrumpyOne]

Hope like hell that McEvoy is a longterm longtime class ruckman.........

as you say a 1st round draft pick...............BUT SO WAS

BROOKS

True, but then McEvoy was not given the flick by Choco at Port.

Should be a rule in every recruiters rule book:

DO NOT RECRUIT ANYONE THAT MARK WILLIAMS DELISTS OR AGREES TO SWAP.

Best judge of a footballer going around ATM.

Has never let anything go that has performed better elsewhere IMO.

[busso mick]

Hope like hell that McEvoy is a longterm longtime class ruckman.........

as you say a 1st round draft pick...............BUT SO WAS

BROOKS

True, but then McEvoy was not given the flick by Choco at Port.

Should be a rule in every recruiters rule book:

DO NOT RECRUIT ANYONE THAT MARK WILLIAMS DELISTS OR AGREES TO SWAP.

Best judge of a footballer going around ATM.

Has never let anything go that has performed better elsewhere IMO.

Fair call there GrumpyOne - Brooks, Murray, Ackland, Guerra all good examples from us. Maybe the little sniper Josh Carr is going alright, but I remember Choco didn't want him to go after their GF win. Even Stevens (pun not intended ) for Carlton is nowhere near as good as he was at Port.

[saintsRrising]

He,s been on for around 4 months and has found us a new home which will have state of the art facilities,got us a crack crew of medical staff and has paid off both Sammy and Gt along the way.Something the board through all there preaching failed to do.

.......
We will get a sponsor soon and all will be good DONT PANIC!!

Look I fully agree with your sentiments about not panicing on sponsorship.

Indeed if FF had signed up major sponsors too quickly it most likely would have meant that we sold out too cheaply.


With FF so far so good.... and I am happy with their progress. More than happy in fact...though the Gold Coast proposal game mea slight concern till I realised that it was capping total interstate games at 6.




However credit where credit is due....and giving Westaway the credit for all of our new medical appointments is clearly wrong.

Misson and co were all appointments that were well in train under the previous admin(...including AF as CEO and RL kicking butts to tell people to get some quality in).


With Frankston (and for that matter Casey)_.....the Saints have been in negotiation since AF famously blew up at Kingston Council earlier in the year.


So while Westaway may well have sped the final decision up.....the process will have been under way before he put his feet under the desk.


With the medicos....i would imagine that RL would have had fair bit to do with luring Misson....and the new phsio and Olympic Tea Doc were most likely identified at least in part by Ross smith and the AIS committee..




Now please don't get me wrong..I am not being negative about FF at all (they look the goods to me)...but it is wrong to give them full credit for things which were either in place or nearly in place when they took over.

[saintsRrising]

Former Board resigned on Oct 2...medical appoinments confirmed in the media on Oct 17.

Now with identifying possible people to approach...interviewing them, negotiationg terms and conditions ...and then announcing them all together asa group do you really believe that all this was only commenced on Oct3 or later??? Personally I would imagine that the CEO and Ross smith would have been active far earlier on this.

In addition....The Australian ran articles that Misson was joining the Saints prior to Oct 2.


Saints finalise medical staff
9:27 AM Thu 18 October, 2007 | Back


for saints.com.au

News
Following the appointment of Matthew Drain as General Manager Football, St Kilda Football Club has confirmed the following appointments of David Mission, (General Manager, Strength and Conditioning), Dr Tim Barbour (Club Doctor) and Andrew Wallis (Club Physiotherapist).

After being pursued by other Clubs, David Mission will join the Saints in 2008, after six seasons at the Sydney Swans as the Club’s elite performance manager.

Prior to working at the Swans in 2001, Mission was part of the Australian Cricket Board / Cricket Australia, where he fulfilled the role of Fitness Manager for the Australian cricket team.

Mission is keen to rectify the injury issues that the Club has endured in recent times and said half the battle in achieving this was to keep all the players on the park. He is also looking forward to working alongside Ross Lyon, whom Mission worked with during Lyon's time as an Assistant Coach at Sydney. “I had a good relationship with Ross in Sydney and that’s something I want to re-establishâ€

[saintsRrising]

One of the biggest positives for me at present is that basically all the news about the saints is good news

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

Indeed FF and team would seem to have added a few more horses and are actively looking for more....so we can pull harder now!!!!...and our grunt should just get bigger and bigger.

[saintspremiers]

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

You mean Golf Tango perhaps???

[loriswa]

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

You mean Golf Tango perhaps???

Isn't Romeo Bravo a most apt call sign for you know who??

[stinger]

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

You mean Golf Tango perhaps???

you've still got it....

[RBnW]

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

You mean Golf Tango perhaps???

you've still got it....

That would be....... Golf Tango youre braking up, your braking up Roger Bravo can you hear me Roger Bravo.....silence....This is Roger Bravo here come in Golf Tango, do you read me Golf Tango....silence.....Golf Wiskey here do you read me Roger Bravo, come in Roger Bravo this is Golf Whiskey do you read me....silence....
This is Golf Whiskey calling all cars, calling all cars I think we have a Green Light on the Roger Bravo......
This is Golf Whiskey calling all cars....we have a green light on Roger Bravo he has left the building.....Golf Whiskey signing in......for Sierra Foxtrot Foxtrot over and in.....

[saintsRrising]

Importantly all that destructive bad blood is gone...and everyone is back pulling in the one direction again.

You mean Golf Tango perhaps???

No.....I meant the combined bad blood from the various parties falling out.

Fueds normally wound both sides....plus third parties......and waste too much time and other resources.....while also distracting from doing the important things.

[Teflon]

He,s been on for around 4 months and has found us a new home which will have state of the art facilities,got us a crack crew of medical staff and has paid off both Sammy and Gt along the way.Something the board through all there preaching failed to do.

.......
We will get a sponsor soon and all will be good DONT PANIC!!

Look I fully agree with your sentiments about not panicing on sponsorship.

Indeed if FF had signed up major sponsors too quickly it most likely would have meant that we sold out too cheaply.


With FF so far so good.... and I am happy with their progress. More than happy in fact...though the Gold Coast proposal game mea slight concern till I realised that it was capping total interstate games at 6.




However credit where credit is due....and giving Westaway the credit for all of our new medical appointments is clearly wrong.

Misson and co were all appointments that were well in train under the previous admin(...including AF as CEO and RL kicking butts to tell people to get some quality in).


With Frankston (and for that matter Casey)_.....the Saints have been in negotiation since AF famously blew up at Kingston Council earlier in the year.


So while Westaway may well have sped the final decision up.....the process will have been under way before he put his feet under the desk.


With the medicos....i would imagine that RL would have had fair bit to do with luring Misson....and the new phsio and Olympic Tea Doc were most likely identified at least in part by Ross smith and the AIS committee..




Now please don't get me wrong..I am not being negative about FF at all (they look the goods to me)...but it is wrong to give them full credit for things which were either in place or nearly in place when they took over.

Well said SR - not to mention that hadnt Roger Bravo given Golf Tango the @ss we wouldnt be sitting now with a decent coach, a NEW football manager who is highly rated, a NEW fitness guru AND a deal from Frankston. Even the membership packs were done and dusted before FF got in.....short memories on many...

Roger Bravo and his previous merry men can take the credit for that - FF can take the credit for a sponsor....when we have one....

[RBnW]

teflon....
Roger Bravo would never have agreed to any of the things that have happened if his presidency wasnt on the line...he was all about profit and self promotion...if Roger Bravo and his merry Yes men were serious about the club they would have moved much earlier than they did and we would have had a flag in 2004 and maybe 2006..injuries were never really looked at until he knew he was Over and Out....or on his way....
I have no doubt Roger Lima has had a big say in this along with Alfa Foxtrot.......since those 2 got together things have happenned...Alfa Foxtrot must have been involved in the Golf Tango Over and Out and certainly clashed publicly with Roger Bravo on Moorabbin last year....I am more thinking its Roger Lima and Alfa Bravo that are driving the changes and the improvements we have seen since the end of last season.....
Its not all Sierra Foxtrot Foxtrot but it would appear they are more in tune with what is right for the club....

[fonz_#15]

i am only worries about the potential lost merchandise sales on the 08 gurnsey as the new sponsors have not been finalised.

[Teflon]

teflon....
Roger Bravo would never have agreed to any of the things that have happened if his presidency wasnt on the line...he was all about profit and self promotion...if Roger Bravo and his merry Yes men were serious about the club they would have moved much earlier than they did and we would have had a flag in 2004 and maybe 2006..injuries were never really looked at until he knew he was Over and Out....or on his way....
I have no doubt Roger Lima has had a big say in this along with Alfa Foxtrot.......since those 2 got together things have happenned...Alfa Foxtrot must have been involved in the Golf Tango Over and Out and certainly clashed publicly with Roger Bravo on Moorabbin last year....I am more thinking its Roger Lima and Alfa Bravo that are driving the changes and the improvements we have seen since the end of last season.....
Its not all Sierra Foxtrot Foxtrot but it would appear they are more in tune with what is right for the club....

Nice piece of pure speculation.

Lets deal in facts though huh?

Roger Bravo's Board had:

1. Commenced Frankston negs and turned Kingston on its head
2. Gave the gifted coach Golf Tango the chance to run his show and hire HIS fitness gurus - they failed.......but they did hire and try so lets not suggest they did nothing
3. Memberships were done before FF - Burke said it himself.
4. Misson was already on Board
5. Drain had been poached

Im all for the dislike for Roger Bravo - but lets not pretend he sat round did nothing for 5 yrs and this "good news" has all happened in 8 weeks on the back of a rejuvinated Alfa Foxtrot (who most on here wanted lynched 3 mths ago.....)

Funny how the wheel/argument turns ...when needed....

[RBnW]

teflon....
Roger Bravo would never have agreed to any of the things that have happened if his presidency wasnt on the line...he was all about profit and self promotion...if Roger Bravo and his merry Yes men were serious about the club they would have moved much earlier than they did and we would have had a flag in 2004 and maybe 2006..injuries were never really looked at until he knew he was Over and Out....or on his way....
I have no doubt Roger Lima has had a big say in this along with Alfa Foxtrot.......since those 2 got together things have happenned...Alfa Foxtrot must have been involved in the Golf Tango Over and Out and certainly clashed publicly with Roger Bravo on Moorabbin last year....I am more thinking its Roger Lima and Alfa Bravo that are driving the changes and the improvements we have seen since the end of last season.....
Its not all Sierra Foxtrot Foxtrot but it would appear they are more in tune with what is right for the club....

Nice piece of pure speculation.

Lets deal in facts though huh?

Roger Bravo's Board had:

1. Commenced Frankston negs and turned Kingston on its head
2. Gave the gifted coach Golf Tango the chance to run his show and hire HIS fitness gurus - they failed.......but they did hire and try so lets not suggest they did nothing
3. Memberships were done before FF - Burke said it himself.
4. Misson was already on Board
5. Drain had been poached

Im all for the dislike for Roger Bravo - but lets not pretend he sat round did nothing for 5 yrs and this "good news" has all happened in 8 weeks on the back of a rejuvinated Alfa Foxtrot (who most on here wanted lynched 3 mths ago.....)

Funny how the wheel/argument turns ...when needed....

Teflon...or Tango...or the gifted one....
1. Roger Bravo and his merry men would not have gone to Frankston under any sort of deal...it was Moorabbin or bust for them that is not speculation but solid inside info that I have heard from a number of places...they never even visited Frankston or met with anyone from Frankston...council source has confirmed that...but met with Kingston a few times and made Kingston council think that a deal would happen at any cost to stay at Moorabbin.......
2. They did give Golf Tango the run of things until they changed thier mind, still they did not do enough as has been seen in the past 3 months...they were after self adulation and profits to make themselves look good to the business world...they did things on the edges but not enough to drive change and they wouldnt spend the money in football until they were gone...
3.Roger Bravo and Merry Men did not want to spend more on the members fact, the membership stuff was ordered by the staff and Alfa Foxtrot, they wanted to cut costs further, Alfa Foxtrot would not be there if Roger Bravo was still in power, they did not get on at all...you knew that
4. Roger Lima got Misson on board...mates from Sydney
5. Roger Bravo and the old footy manager KS were best mates Alfa Foxtrot could not have got rid of him for Drain unless Rodger Bravo lost to Sierra Foxtrot Foxtrot...that didnt happen until after Roger Bravo was gone and SFF in place....check the timing....Roger Bravo put KS in place not Alfa Foxtrot...

none of this is speculation all very good and well sourced facts Tango....my information is good on this.....inside and outside info pieced together over time...
am I talking to the gifted Golf Tango himself.........

I hear its Roger Lima and Alfa Foxtrot driving the changes and its early days but 3 months are a lifetime in footy.....

[Oh When the Saints]

Teflon (and it's not just you but others as well) IMO you give far too much credit/debit to particular boards.

At the end of the day, the board is responsible for very little of what you are saying.

IMO nowhere near enough people are giving credit to Archie Fraser for his work over the past three months.

I would call it nothing short of brilliant. In my mind, he is becoming an outstanding CEO, and one of the best in the AFL.


Most of the things that have happened at the club over the past three months have been operational/CEO responsibilities ... Frankston, Misson, Drain, memberships ... the buck for all that stops with him (except Frankston).

No doubt that Alfa Foxtrot and Roger Lima are working very well together, and are intent on creating something special.

Archie Fraser is drawing closer to Bravo Whiskey every day as the best CEO we have ever had at the club IMO.

[saintsRrising]

I hear its Roger Lima and Alfa Foxtrot driving the changes and its early days but 3 months are a lifetime in footy.....

Which gets back to my point .....that all the current changes are not just due to FF....


......and indeed if you believe some scuttlebutt AF was active in moving on first GT...then RB....


However what matters is where we are now are where we are going....... FF are backing a very good team of guys now (coaches, development staff, football manager, conditioning and fitness staff, new recruiter...) .....and early signs are that the FF should be a good Board too.


To me the direction is a good and healthy one and I am the most optimistic I have been for a while.

[Teflon]

Teflon (and it's not just you but others as well) IMO you give far too much credit/debit to particular boards.

At the end of the day, the board is responsible for very little of what you are saying.

IMO nowhere near enough people are giving credit to Archie Fraser for his work over the past three months.

I would call it nothing short of brilliant. In my mind, he is becoming an outstanding CEO, and one of the best in the AFL.


Most of the things that have happened at the club over the past three months have been operational/CEO responsibilities ... Frankston, Misson, Drain, memberships ... the buck for all that stops with him (except Frankston).

No doubt that Alfa Foxtrot and Roger Lima are working very well together, and are intent on creating something special.

Archie Fraser is drawing closer to Bravo Whiskey every day as the best CEO we have ever had at the club IMO.

I quite agree but i think we also again need to look at who bought Alfa Foxtrot on board.....that is where it starts is it not?

Regardless, Im not into glorifying Butters and co at all - but I do think fairs fair...the guy made some gutsy decisions (Blight?) AND regardless of the cynical twits floating round also made another in sacking Golf Tango. SFF didnt inherit a basket case - theyve got a well placed club list wise and a financially stable one....many Nth fans would kill for that.....theyve got James Brayshaws "get rich quick" plan on the back of a post it note that everyone else is asking - why not 5 years ago?????

[Teflon]

am I talking to the gifted Golf Tango himself.........

I hear its Roger Lima and Alfa Foxtrot driving the changes and its early days but 3 months are a lifetime in footy.....

One could ask if it werent for Roger Bravo and the band of merry men...would Roger Lima ever have gotten to the place?........another good decision IMO.

alas......as is well documented I am the son of Darth Vader aka Roger Bravo according to some on here....Im also half man/half woman (I'll leave you to work out which half..)....never the less.....IF SFF can pull out a great sponsorship deal then a big kudos to them for mine.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Teflon (and it's not just you but others as well) IMO you give far too much credit/debit to particular boards.

At the end of the day, the board is responsible for very little of what you are saying.

IMO nowhere near enough people are giving credit to Archie Fraser for his work over the past three months.

I would call it nothing short of brilliant. In my mind, he is becoming an outstanding CEO, and one of the best in the AFL.

...

Change it to 12 months and I'll agree.

Teflon and RBnW can debate which board did what, and who would/would not have done what (and I hope will continue, I enjoy that kind of stuff), but until the above line I think the most salient point was that of sRr, that in the course of 3 months, very little of what's been sealed and delivered could have been started without having already being started.

So perhaps it's corrent that the old guard would never have left Moorabbin (very dubious claim, whatever the rumours), it's a big call, but we know that Fraser had entertained the possibility, even if the old guard wasn't sold yet. We know that Kingston was pushing the line.

Probably the most board driven part is how much rope to give Fraser... Butterss shot down Fraser in a public arena (which I don't necessarily read too much into, Butterss liked to work in the public arena, and it would fit for them to play good cop bad cop in the press), which at least gives the appearance that Fraser was frontman but not decision maker. The new board needs some continuity in order to get things done, and a sensible way to go about that is to give Lyon and Fraser the room they need. Barring massive disagreement, any massive stuff-ups will be assigned to the honeymoon period and learning curve, and when taking over an organisation, one of the most important things to do is not get in the way of key, trusted staff... and Fraser's fingerprints are on a lot, probably going back more than 3 months.

Credit? Credit the old guard for hiring Lyon and Fraser. Credit the new guard for not getting in the way while they've done their jobs. Credit Lyon and recruiting with the trade and draft period (and likely Misson). Credit Fraser with Frankston, and other personnel moves not with Lyon's scope.

Credit SFF with whatever sponsorship they announce when they announce it, but frankly, it's over the course of years, not months that their performance will be judged. The potential GC deal is new and fresh enough that it would be a SFF move, but that's the level... let's not lost sight of the forest for the trees.