Which Ruckman Will It Be ??

[Oh When the Saints]

200cm is not small for McEvoy. Averaged a lot of hitouts despite spending time up forward - a talented footballer though, and could easily become a ruckman.

Rance's style of play this year, was to hit the ball hard, stay in the contest as long as possible and recieve the ball at speed, has worked well for him, but he has no real vertical leap and is suspect under the ball, is slightly tangle footed at slow speed and has slightly hard hands, was rescued more than once this year by Chad Morrison when his man started to push of the rebound and kick goals after Swans turnovers, was usually moved onto the ball. Would think he is higher rated by footy watchers (1-10) then AFL scouts (10-20) Is a top prospect but like most talls has holes to fill.

[saintly]

200cm is not small for McEvoy. Averaged a lot of hitouts despite spending time up forward - a talented footballer though, and could easily become a ruckman.

Rance's style of play this year, was to hit the ball hard, stay in the contest as long as possible and recieve the ball at speed, has worked well for him, but he has no real vertical leap and is suspect under the ball, is slightly tangle footed at slow speed and has slightly hard hands, was rescued more than once this year by Chad Morrison when his man started to push of the rebound and kick goals after Swans turnovers, was usually moved onto the ball. Would think he is higher rated by footy watchers (1-10) then AFL scouts (10-20) Is a top prospect but like most talls has holes to fill.

that worries me, i was all for rance at 9.

[saintsRrising]

200cm is not small for McEvoy.

So he has grown a cm..

But still compared to a 205cm guy he is a bit smaller...but remember it is not just the normal height alone...but that combined with longer arms as well which make the total reach higher...

[Oh When the Saints]

True. But Brendon Lade is close to the most effective ruckman in the AFL, and he's 199cm.

[Eastern]

Should we be bothered by an extra cm or 2 !!

[Armoooo]

Should we be bothered by an extra cm or 2 !!

It depends!! Should we be bothered by an extra Premiership or two?!??!?!

JJ BTW, though I would try out a B4E approach, don't mind it

[Teflon]

Should we be bothered by an extra cm or 2 !!

spoke with my other half on this and they confirmed it does matter.......damn it!!!!

[saintsRrising]

True. But Brendon Lade is close to the most effective ruckman in the AFL, and he's 199cm.

True.....but I like to think of the future....and plan and build for it

We need to draft a kid now...for where the game will be in several years time..

In several years I think to cut it that 205cm+ will be the minimum....unless you are very gifted...which a Pick 9 will not be.

[vacuous space]

If you check recent drafts,

the strike rate for ruckmen in the first round isn't actually that bad. It's certainly better than the strike rate for KPPs and sub-180cm players. .

Well I did check the recent drafts before I posted...and I did not see a great track record for ruckmen less than 200cm who were taken in the first draft. Indeed most such players are struggling...and as a group the sub-200cm rucks have not delivered as ruckmen as well as their 200+cm brethren.

I wasn't trying to imply that you hadn't looked at the recent drafts, but rather trying to get you to look at the rucks versus the KPPs and sub-180cm players. I also think that in listing the players you should probably use their draft camp heights rather than their current heights if you're going to argue against McEvoy on account of his current height. I've altered your list to include the last five drafts (couldn't find the 99-01 draft heights) with all players listed as ruckmen (even if they don't play there anymore) taken in the first round and changed their heights to reflect their draft camp height as opposed to their current one.

RECENT FIRST ROUND DRAFT SELECTIONS OF RUCKMEN

2002

9 Hamish McIntosh 201.8cm
10 Jason Laycock 198.2 cm

KPPs taken: Tim Walsh, Jay Schultz, Nick Smith, Stephen Gilham
U-180cms: Daniel Wells, Byron Schammer

2003

6 Kepler Bradley 197.9cm
18 Llane Spaanderman 198.3cm

KPPs taken: Ryan Murphy, Fergus Watts, Troy Chaplin, Billy Morrison
U-180s:

2004 National Draft
8 John Meesen 199 cm
16 Adam Pattison 198 cm
18 Cameron Wood 204cm

KPPs: Jarryd Roughead, Lance Franklin, Tom Williams, Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Ryan Willits
U-180s: Angus Monfries, Andrew McQualter

2005 National Draft

7 Patrick Ryder 195.7 cm
9 Mitchell Clark 198.1 cm
18 Max Bailey 205.8 cm

KPPs: Josh Kennedy, Grant Birchall
U-180s: Marc Murphy, Nathan Jones, Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas

2006 National Draft

4 Matthew Leuenberger 203.2cm
14 James Sellar 195 cm
17 Shaun Hampson 200.8 cm

KPPs: Scott Gumbleton, Lachlan Hansen, Mitch Thorp, Ben Reid, Nathan J. Brown, Andrejs Everitt, James Frawley, Jack Riewoldt, Mitch Brown
U-180s: Leroy Jetta

---

I don't think that list reflects ruckmen being a far riskier pick than a KPP (Henderson, Rance) or a small mid (Masten, Rioli). After Kreuzer and Cotchin are gone there isn't a player without some kind of a knock on him (even Palmer is a little on the small side). McEvoy is of a calibre that won't be available later in the draft - and we may not get a chance to draft a player of his abilities for quite some time.

As for height, a lot of the guys who were under 200 on draft day are now over 200. some of the players have grown nearly 3cm since their draft camp. It's pretty reasonable to think that by the time McEvoy is finished growing that he'll be at least 200cm.

[LTN16]

Dawson Simpson is a big boy.

At 206cm and 105kg he sounds like the perfect pick for our pick 42.

He is the tallest and heaviest person in the draft and I would be very happy getting him with pick 42.

[maverick]

+1 for Dawson, if we got Rioli with 9 and Dawson with 42, I would be stoked....

[mad saint guy]

+1 for Dawson, if we got Rioli with 9 and Dawson with 42, I would be stoked....

Agree. My ideal draft..

Pick 9 - Cyril Rioli
Pick 42 - Dawson Simpson
Pick 58 - Michael Dell Aquila

[saintsRrising]

+1 for Dawson, if we got Rioli with 9 and Dawson with 42, I would be stoked....

Me too....

[LTN16]

I was very surprised that Tom Bellchambers, Brent Connelly, Will Sullivan and James Mulligan didn't get drafted.

I hope we get Bellchambers with pick 8 in the Rookie draft.

[saintsRrising]

I was very surprised that Tom Bellchambers, Brent Connelly, Will Sullivan and James Mulligan didn't get drafted.

I hope we get Bellchambers with pick 8 in the Rookie draft.

We also already have Van Reehan..

plus..King, Gardiner, Rix.......and McEvoy. So 5 ruckman not counting Kosi.....or Khan (any ide what position he will be groomed for as he is 198odd....)


My No 1 rookie priority would now be a key defender type.


Though Bellchambers is a likely type......and we do have 2 picks.


Young mids now include Armo, Howard, Geary, Eddie, Steven and Eljay....and so a reasonable group there...hopefully a couple of them will make it.

[Animal Enclosure]

The Simpson v McEvoy debate needs a little bit of perspective here. While Ben McEvoy is a tall footballer, Dawson Simpson is a huge unit trying to learn how to play footy.

McEvoy has real football ability and is still growing at 201cm. He is not undersized at 201 for a ruckman and has excellent prospects as an around the ground ruckman (as is required in the modern game). Simpson has 4cm on McEvoy but is much more limited around the ground.

McEvoy can also add a dimension up forward and provides key forward depth that we were lacking after the delisting of Brooks and Watts.

I'm very happy with the pick, would have been nice to have another early pick to take Rioli who would have been very very nice.



BEN MCEVOY

November 22nd, 2007
Ben McEvoy - Murray Bushrangers
199cm, 90kg (sizes taken from TAC Cup Record)

Junior position: KP forward/ruckman
Projected AFL position: Ruckman pinch hitting as KP forward

Stengths
Strong hands
Pack marking
Great play reader
Good ground level skills for size

Weaknesses
Pace
Tackling

Question marks
Tall forward or ruck? Good in two positions at junior level but might need to define himself in a certain position to make it at AFL level.

Comments
McEvoy is a highly rated prospect and is regarded in some circles to be the best big man in this draft behind Matthew Kreuzer. Leading up to the Championships he split time between ruck and the forward line for the Bushrangers, but since then he was almost exclusively played forward, kicking 23 goals in the final nine games of the season and only being held goalless once.

He’s got a great set of hands, which along with his strength has been one of his major assets. As with all big bodied players this certainly doesn’t make for a seamless transition up to AFL football. He still has a bit of physical maturing to go and will benefit from the move to senior football as he’s been a man playing amongst boys - it’s probably even overdue that he gets challenged by bodies as big or bigger than his own.

He can kick on his left foot adquately. He’s not exactly dual sided but his left is neat and can get him out of trouble. His disposal by foot and hand is quite good and last season he had a solid converstion rate in front of the goals.

His major weakness is his pace, however he has compensated for this by being smart. He times his leads well, which has hidden his lack of speed - if anything it can trick you into thinking he’s quick off the mark because he took quite a few marks on the lead this season. Smarter and more reactive backmen are unlikely to give him such a lead so this limits the sort of forward line role he could take on at a higher level.

Despite his physical presence he doesn’t provide very much in the way of tackling and will need to improve in his second efforts.

Around the ground his ruckwork is good, but not great. As a pure ruckman his tapwork will get you by but what he offers around the ground will help give him the edge. His ruckwork at throw-ins is better and he understands how to use his body well.

McEvoy is good below his knees, which is a rare trait for someone of his size.

At AFL he projects a ruckman, who can rest deep in the forward line. He’s done a good job leading up in the forward line as a junior but those days are over now. He has a decent frame and if it continues to grow he’ll be good isolated one on one where he can use his strength.

First round - mid to late.

Stats
2007 TAC Cup season
18 games played
28.13
178 kicks (140 of them effective)
109 handballs (96 effective)
260 hitouts
45 contested marks
99 uncontested marks
27 tackles

[SaintBot]

I was very surprised that Tom Bellchambers, Brent Connelly, Will Sullivan and James Mulligan didn't get drafted.

I hope we get Bellchambers with pick 8 in the Rookie draft.

if we do pick one of them in the rookie draft ill put my money on connelly.

we have been very closely linked to him.


another to note is andrew renton

[Animal Enclosure]

With two picks (8 & 24) left I think most of us would like to see a young key defender picked and maybe another mid.

You'd think that Gourdis will be gone before our pick so maybe Travis Dulic is an option.

Another ruckman may be an option given that M.Gardiner is the hugest of question marks. Being able to promote a young ruckman might be good foresight.

[LTN16]

I see that Brent Connelly is training with Essendon and Will Sullivan is training with Richmond.

I'm surprised that Tom Bellchambers isn't training anywhere.

[Saints94]

I see that Brent Connelly is training with Essendon and Will Sullivan is training with Richmond.

I'm surprised that Tom Bellchambers isn't training anywhere.

Lets cross our fingers and hope that he starts training with the Saints.

[B W and R all over]

Maybe we have our quota of ruckmen now.

Think about it: King, Gardiner, Rix, Koschitzke (can be used as a back-up), McEvoy and if we run into injury trouble there's always the option of promoting Van Rheenan.

I reckon we should look at perhaps a quick midfielder or tall defender for pre-season/rookie list.

[Saints94]

We have 2 back-up ruckmans in Vanny and Blakey

[LTN16]

Maybe we have our quota of ruckmen now.

Think about it: King, Gardiner, Rix, Koschitzke (can be used as a back-up), McEvoy and if we run into injury trouble there's always the option of promoting Van Rheenan.

I reckon we should look at perhaps a quick midfielder or tall defender for pre-season/rookie list.

There is still question mark over King and Gardiner. If both of them go down our Rucks would have to be Rix/Koschitzke or Rix/McEvoy. Just think in a couple of years down the track King and Gardiner will retire and we will have to have some ready replacements. I just think if we get another Ruckman in the Rookie Draft we will have Van Rheenen, McEvoy and a ??(Rookie) waiting in the wings and that should provide us with a good future in the Ruck.

[nathan000]

I reckon we should look at perhaps a quick midfielder

i agree with that.

[LTN16]

Tom Bellchambers is now also training with Essendon.

Essendon - Ashley Arrowsmith (Calder Cannons); Jarrod Atkinson (Bendigo Bombers); Tom Bellchambers (Launceston) ; James Bristow (Gippsland Power); Brent Connelly (Gippsland Power); Tim Plummer (Bendigo Bombers)