Which Ruckman Will It Be ??

[LTN16]

Coach Ross Lyon said the team would select four young players, including a ruckman, to continue rebuilding stocks.

So which Ruckman do you think it will be ??

Ben McEvoy - Ht: 200.2cm Wt: 94.6kg - Murray Bushrangers

Tom Bellchambers - Ht: 200.7cm Wt: 99.6kg - Tassie Mariners

Dawson Simpson - Ht: 205.9cm Wt: 104.9kg - Murray Bushrangers

Brent Connelly - Ht: 200cm Wt: 85kg - Gippsland Power

Will Sullivan - Ht: 202cm Wt: 95kg - Western Jets

Matthew Lobbe - Ht: 199cm Wt: 82kg - Eastern Rangers

James Mulligan - Ht: 201cm Wt: 96kg - Southport

John Shaw - Ht: 197cm Wt: 90kg - Sandringham Dragons


All of them except McEvoy and maybe Bellchambers should be still there until our second pick (42) and our third pick (58).

I think we should pick the best available player with our pick 9 and if McEvoy is still around then we should pick him.

[SaintBot]

I like Brent Connelly for pick 42

[Eastern]

Matthew Lobbe is more of a CHF who pinch hits in the ruck !!

[mad saint guy]

I would love to get Dawson Simpson with pick 42. He is now 206cm, 105kg.

[SaintBot]

I would love to get Dawson Simpson with pick 42. He is now 206cm, 105kg.

how is he around the ground?

[Armoooo]

I would love to get Dawson Simpson with pick 42. He is now 206cm, 105kg.

Is he the one who is relatively new to the sport, if so I would definitely say him, the biggest room for improvment.

[mad saint guy]

I would love to get Dawson Simpson with pick 42. He is now 206cm, 105kg.

how is he around the ground?

Moves pretty well and has decent skills. Right now there isn't anything outstanding about his game, but a 206cm monster with good skills is exactly what you look for in a project ruckman.

[Oh When the Saints]

Brent Connelly has grown in the last couple of months, and is now 202cm according to the draft watchers on BigFooty.

[F_Q_F]

Coach Ross Lyon said the team would select four young players, including a ruckman, to continue rebuilding stocks.

Can anybody tell me what article this quote is from and if anybody has a link to it that would be awesome?

Cheers

[SaintBot]

Coach Ross Lyon said the team would select four young players, including a ruckman, to continue rebuilding stocks.

Can anybody tell me what article this quote is from and if anybody has a link to it that would be awesome?

Cheers

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/s ... 97213.html

[F_Q_F]

Thanks SaintBot

[saintsRrising]

I would prefer one of the taller guys with a late pick for the following reasons;

*ruckmen are a higher chance of not making it.....so unless you believe that the player is head and shoulders above (pun intended!!!) the player types avalable for that pick...then with an early draft pick I would keep it for our other areas of need....ie a mid or a FB

* at pick 9...the highest rated ruckmen that MAY still be there is McEvoy, but at 199cm and from the reports on him he seems to be more a ruck forward.... So with Kosi for mine we already have a better similar type who can play now. With Allen we also have a ready made young future key forward as well.

So for mine I would go for the best available tallish ruckmen available with our picks 42 or 58.

[LTN16]

Matthew Lobbe is more of a CHF who pinch hits in the ruck !!

He won the B&F playing in the ruck last year but this year he basically played as a CHF.

[LTN16]

Did anyone watch the Scorps game against Tassie when Tom Bellchambers made his debut in the VFL ??

I have read where Bellchambers beat Matthew Clarke in the ruck. Is this True ??

[Washedup]

Posted: Sun 11 Nov 2007 5:31pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would prefer one of the taller guys with a late pick for the following reasons;

*ruckmen are a higher chance of not making it.....so unless you believe that the player is head and shoulders above (pun intended!!!) the player types avalable for that pick...then with an early draft pick I would keep it for our other areas of need....ie a mid or a FB

* at pick 9...the highest rated ruckmen that MAY still be there is McEvoy, but at 199cm and from the reports on him he seems to be more a ruck forward.... So with Kosi for mine we already have a better similar type who can play now. With Allen we also have a ready made young future key forward as well.

So for mine I would go for the best available tallish ruckmen available with our picks 42 or 58.

Agree with that. Fair enough to take a highly touted ruckmen with your first rounder when you have a chance to get a Mattew Kruezer or a guy like Matthew Leuenberger from last year, both of whom will be future superstars with Leuenberger the better of the 2 for mine.
If we take McEvoy at #9 we wont actually be gaining a ruckmen in the pure sense, we would be gaining a utility that is probably more competent playing up fwd than he is in the ruck (ala Kosi). I dont know how many on here have actually seen him play much, but if anyone watched much of the under 18 championships he was a fair way off both Kruezer and Naitanui (who will be hot property this time next year) in ability. Dont get me wrong i think McEvoy will be a great pickup to whichever club that takes him, i just think we have a greater need to pick up either a KP backman like Rance, or the best midfielder that falls at pick #9, rather than picking up a ruckmen who in all honesty at 199cm either has to improve his rucking ability alot or grow 3-4cm to be able to compete against the monsters he will confront at AFL level.
Personally i hope he goes before our pick, with the best bet being the dogs at #5 because i feel if he is around at #9 we will take him. It is not because i feel that the kid cant play, i would just rather us fill our rucking needs with a later pick on a pure ruckmen, than a ruckmen that i feel will play more of his career in the AFL as a fwd. I shall watch with interest

[loriswa]

Well I hope it's a bloody better pick than Clark or Gardiner....wtf

[vacuous space]

If we take McEvoy at #9 we wont actually be gaining a ruckmen in the pure sense, we would be gaining a utility that is probably more competent playing up fwd than he is in the ruck (ala Kosi). I dont know how many on here have actually seen him play much, but if anyone watched much of the under 18 championships he was a fair way off both Kruezer and Naitanui (who will be hot property this time next year) in ability.

It's hardly a shock that a guy who didn't play regularly in the ruck as a junior was beaten at the champs by elite prospects who played there regularly. Thanks to the way he was used as a junior, whoever drafts McEvoy is going to have to give him some time to learn the ruck and resist the temptation to use him up forward. He shouldn't be used as a key forward at AFL level anyway. He's not quick or agile enough for the way the position is being played these days.

He's not too small for the ruck either. He's pretty much eye to eye with Gardiner, King and most other ruckman in the league. The key is going to be whether he can get his strength up to AFL level because strength is far more important for a ruckman than height. It's not a stretch at all to think that someone who's as good with his hands as McEvoy is will be able to improve on his tapwork either.

I've thought for a while that McEvoy is going to be our pick. If you check recent drafts, the strike rate for ruckmen in the first round isn't actually that bad. It's certainly better than the strike rate for KPPs and sub-180cm players. Also, the number of ruckmen in the AFL taken after pick 40 is very low. Most decent ones are taken in the top-30. I think that McEvoy is likely to be the BPA at pick 9. We've tried to get a ruckman on the cheap and it hasn't worked, now is a good time to land ourselves a quality ruckman for the future.

[saintsRrising]

If you check recent drafts,

the strike rate for ruckmen in the first round isn't actually that bad. It's certainly better than the strike rate for KPPs and sub-180cm players. .

Well I did check the recent drafts before I posted...and I did not see a great track record for ruckmen less than 200cm who were taken in the first draft. Indeed most such players are struggling...and as a group the sub-200cm rucks have not delivered as ruckmen as well as their 200+cm brethren.

So for mine to recruit a ruckmen who is less than 200cm in height who is not exceptionally talented (ie deserving of a very early draft pick) is a very high risk strategy.

You are more than likely going to end up with a player that is not good enough to ruck and not mobile enough to play key position. McEvoy would appear to me such a player.....and as we already have Kosi who is a more talented version of McEvoy (but who is also not good enough to be a first ruck) I would prefer other uses for Pick 9 than McEvoy.


RECENT FIRST ROUND DRAFT SELECTIONS OF RUCKMEN

1999 National Draft
1 Josh Fraser 202cm

2000 National Draft

2 Justin Koschitzke 197cm
5 Andrew McDougall 197cm
7 Laurence Angwin 200cm


2001 National Draft

7 David Hale 200cm,
15 Barry Brooks 198cm,

2002

9. Kangaroos: Hamish McIntosh 203cm
10. Essendon: Jason Laycock 201 cm

2003

6 Kepler Bradley 198cm
18 Llane Spaanderman 198cm


2004 National Draft
18- Brisbane: Cameron Wood 204cm

2005 National Draft

18 Hawthorn - Max Bailey -206cm

2006 National Draft

4 Matthew Leuenberger 203cm

[saintsRrising]

Also, the number of ruckmen in the AFL taken after pick 40 is very low. Most decent ones are taken in the top-30. .

I would be interested your see your stats on this as the records that I can easily check don't go back far enough....but from what I can see where you get a good ruckman from varies widely......EXCEPT with a bias for players taken in the top 4 which is not surprising.

However of last years top rucks:
1 Aaron Sandilands Fremantle 15 15 v Geelong, Round 17 26.9
2 Dean Cox West Coast 21 29 v Collingwood, Second Semi-Final 23.0
3 Jeff White Melbourne 22 16 v Carlton, Round 22 21.0
4 Brendon Lade Port Adelaide 25 14 v Geelong, Grand Final 20.7
5 Darren Jolly Sydney 23 14 v Collingwood, Second Elimination Final 19.9
6 Brad Ottens Geelong 22 19 v Port Adelaide, Grand Final 19.0
7 Hamish McIntosh Kangaroos 25 18 v Port Adelaide, Preliminary Final 18.5
8 Jamie Charman Brisbane 17 5 v Sydney, Round 20 18.5
9 Peter Street Western Bulldogs 12 14 v Adelaide, Round 20 17.8
10 Peter Everitt Sydney 23 18 v Collingwood, Second Elimination Final 17.6


The first 2, and the best 2, in Cox and Sandliands were ex-rookies....so not top 30...or even top 70!!!


Lade was part of Port's inaugral side....so I am not sure what draft selection process applied in their formation.

Ottens, White were both taken in the first few...and were acknowledged as exceptional talents.

Charman was pick 29 in 2000....and one of the few 197cm ruckmen to make it.

Street was pick 17 in 98...but is no great shake...

Everitt was????????????????????????

Darren Jolly was taken by Melbourne origianally as?????



Goodes was pick 43 in 97

Troy Simmonds was taken in the 99 Pre-season draft.... and so along with Cox and sandlinads it means that 3 of theuseful ruckmen going around were very cheap pick-ups.






And then as an example of growing your own

Robert Warnock as the number 42 draft pick in the 2005 AFL Draft from the Sandringham Dragons.

Warnock played the entire 2006 season with West Perth in the WAFL as a ruckman.

He made his AFL debut for the Fremantle Dockers in Rd 6 against the Brisbane Lions.

He is regarded as one Fremantle's key future prospects, averaging 10 ruck hit outs per game in his first season and being awarded the Beacon Award for the best new talent at the 2007 Doig Medal awards night.

He drew alot of attention from rival AFL clubs who tried to get him in this trade period but Freo said all along that he was not for trade.


A "Warnook" Selection is my preferred method of growing our own.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I would love to get Dawson Simpson with pick 42. He is now 206cm, 105kg.

how is he around the ground?

Moves pretty well and has decent skills. Right now there isn't anything outstanding about his game, but a 206cm monster with good skills is exactly what you look for in a project ruckman.

thats somthing you can work on for instance cox when he first got to westcoast was very slow and had no motoer at all he got beaten by everyone in his first WC time trial (that included scott "fatty" cummings) but after a while in the gym and some conditioning now hes one of the most mobil rucks to play and can run hard all day . it was a similar story for sandilands who could bearly kick when he came to the dockers and was stuffed after running from the boundry line to the centre square , its all to do with how the club nurture them

[Oh When the Saints]

Spot on St Trav.

That's why player development, and having specialist coaches, is so important.

Collingwood, West Coast and Port Adelaide are IMO the three best clubs in the AFL at developing players.

Any coincidence they all finished top 4 ??

[LTN16]

This is what Kevin Sheehan said about Dawson Simpson:

"Dawson is the biggest lad to ever come to Draft Camp; [Fremantle's ruckman] Aaron Sandilands went to a state screening," Sheehan said.

"The Bushrangers have had a great record of producing big guys; they’ve had Josh Fraser, Hamish McIntosh, Barry Hall and Fraser Gehrig.

"He’s still learning at 18-years-old and 205cm, but he’s doing as much or more as a McIntosh at the same age who has taken probably four or five years to come on to be a terrific player for the Kangaroos, so you just have to be patient.

"Whether he’s drafted or rookie listed, he’s going to take a fair bit of time at that size, but the game now suits guys who are very big with the centre circles; reach is pretty important as Sandilands has proven.

"He’s a willing worker, who is still developing with lots more improvement left in him. But at his size – and he gets around the ground OK – he’s an interesting one for some club wanting a project ruckman.â€

[st_Trav_ofWA]

would suit well i would think we could get 3-4 years outa king while hes learning the trade as long as he shows some sign of improvement in those years i have no problem with project players its when they stagnate and and are still along way off is when it becomes annoying

[Oh When the Saints]

Here's a write-up on McEvoy from one of the better Phantom Drafts on BigFooty - this poster has the Saints taking him at #9:

Looking from the outside the Saints are in need of a young ruck prospect as well as some key position depth and possibly some depth to their midfield brigade. McEvoy seems like a good option given that has played a lot of junior football in both the ruck and up forward and has shown good promise at both. The risk is that he will be neither fish nor fowl and will not cut it. Rance would be the other major prospect that will be getting a long look here.

McEvoy rates only the third best ruck prospect coming out of the Champs this year but that is not going to stop him going probably in the top 12 or so and possibly as high as 5th. He probably has just under ideal height for a ruck but he is a solid ruck practioner and was 5th in the Champs for hitouts despite playing a lot of time in the forward line. What a lot of clubs are going to really like about McEvoy is his versatility. He can ruck but is also a solid prospect up forward or down back and he will go into wherever he is asked to play and give it his all. He is a high character guy who will make a team better with his good attitude and competitiveness. He was selected as a forward in the AA team this year which was a case I think of slotting a player who deserved to be picked but there were others ahead of him in his preferred position. In the ruck he was and is a fair bit behind Kruezer and Naitanui.

His disposal is pretty good and when playing in the ruck his players feel comfortable going to him. He is a good mark and has good athleticism for a guy his size. His endurance and agility are also top shelf for a ruck prospect and certainly adequate for a key position especially one his size. Someone is going to fall in love with the versatility he offers and take him early. This could mean the Bulldogs at 5 who are desparate for some height and I think more likely the Saints who are likely to give him a big look at 9.

[saintsRrising]

While Quigley does makes some good points...the key position depth that the Saints lack at present is a Full back...a role that McEvoy could not play.

If the Saints were desperate for another big marking forward then you would imagine that we would have held onto Watts which we did not.


It would not surprise me if the Dogs took him though....but they may snaffle Henderson instead.


If it was choice for example between Rance and McEvoy....I would go Rance.


A lot will depend on who is still available at No. 9...but if there is a good mid or a Rance available then I would take them over McEvoy and in particular as we also have Allen as a future key forward.

However other clubs taking all the players that we are most interested in may see McEvoy bob up......but I would imagine that if Rance is gone then a good mid should stioll be there leaving pick 42 for someone like the Bushranger giant.