a goal-kicking forward line

[bigcarl]

Geelong:
Mooney 67
Johnson 49
N.Ablett 34
Stokes 32
Chapman 30
G.Ablett 25

St.Kilda:
Gehrig 59
Riewoldt 42
Milne 32
Koschitzke 26
Fiora 12

Thanks armooo. so the cats had five guys who kicked 30 or more goals and we had three. in other words they had a fully functional forward line and we didn't.

[Armoooo]

Geelong:
Mooney 67
Johnson 49
N.Ablett 34
Stokes 32
Chapman 30
G.Ablett 25

St.Kilda:
Gehrig 59
Riewoldt 42
Milne 32
Koschitzke 26
Fiora 12

Thanks armooo. so the cats had five guys who kicked 30 or more goals and we had three. in other words they had a fully functional forward line and we didn't.

Having said that though, they did play 3 extra matches.
Same with Port and this is what they got:
B.Ebert PA 56
D.Motlop PA 44
S.Burgoyne PA 39
J.Westhoff PA 34
W.Tredrea PA 31

[bigcarl]

i think we can count on kosi, roo and milney to kick over 30 goals next year. we need two more ... if last year's grand finalists are a guide.

bj and gilbert? schneider? dal? where are the extra goals going to come from?

[saintsRrising]

For too many years have the Saints had things too reliant on having supposedly the best forward line in the AFL (though admitedlly hamill did not play last year...whereas what we really needed to conentrate on was having the best TEAM and TEAM PLAY in the AFL.

I don't think this is true at all.

At what point did we as a club attempt to rely on our forward line?

At what point in the past have we not tried to be about the 'team' an not individuals?

We've been attempting to eradicate the 'individual brilliance' aspect of our club since Thomas took over 7 years ago.

We've been concentrating on that categorically and absolutely for 7 years now.

# WOW eh....well if we have been concentrating on it for SEVEN years it shows that is an ingrained problem that we have not resolved!!!!

# News Update: Thomas was sacked a little while back.


# GT was while spouting team lines was rather by action a stong advocate of fawning over his chosen stars...which is a key reason that the list while good at the top had poor depth. Winess the HUGE clean out now over 2 draft periods.

#...and as for "At what point did we as a club attempt to rely on our forward line?" Where were you during the kick to Roo or GTrain games???????????????? Game after game where opposition coaches just played extra men on them knowing that the Saints would be stupid enough to look for them too much including when they were very poor options.

[saintsRrising]

i think we can count on kosi, roo and milney to kick over 30 goals next year. we need two more ... if last year's grand finalists are a guide.
bj and gilbert? schneider? dal? where are the extra goals going to come from?

Well what about other grand finalists......

Lets also look at the Weagles in 2006

Games Goals

Quinten Lynch
26 65
Andrew Embley
23 31
Adam Hunter
22 29
Chris Judd
23 29
Brent Staker
23 24
Ben Cousins
22 20

and the Swans in 2005
Games Goalsl

Barry Hall
26 80
Michael O'Loughlin
23 52
Nick Davis
23 38
Ryan O'Keefe
26 31
Adam Goodes
26 23
Amon Buchanan
26 14



So each Grand Finalist was quite different... Weagles had only 2 with more than 30 golas...and pnly one permanent forward...as Hunter and staker also play elswhere and the others are mids...


The Swans by contrast while scoring less goals did however strongly feature regular forwards.






I think that while the Saints yes do need to use Kosi and roo weell...that we do yes also need a number of paths to goal. One of these paths needs to be more goals in total from our midfield group.

[rodgerfox]

# WOW eh....well if we have been concentrating on it for SEVEN years it shows that is an ingrained problem that we have not resolved!!!!

# News Update: Thomas was sacked a little while back.

# GT was while spouting team lines was rather by action a stong advocate of fawning over his chosen stars...which is a key reason that the list while good at the top had poor depth. Winess the HUGE clean out now over 2 draft periods.

#...and as for "At what point did we as a club attempt to rely on our forward line?" Where were you during the kick to Roo or GTrain games???????????????? Game after game where oposition coaches just played extra menon them knowing that the saints would be stupid enough to look for them too much including when they were very poor options.

I think this is nonsense.

Before injuries hit us, we had balanced and deep midfield, a balanced and deep forward line and a balanced and deep defence.

Even with horrific injuries, we've been a strong finals side - so how can people possibly question our depth?

We didn't just bomb it to Gehrig and Roo at all by choice. This was due to the pressure and lack of run in our midfield. The lack of this and the lack of line breakers from defence was due to the fact that the guys who play these roles for us were sitting in the grandstands.

Funny how Sydney only win games when at full compliment. Take out one player (Kennelly) and they can't win.

Funny how Geelong are now a super team who are invincible, when only 12 months earlier when key players such as Ottens, Ablett, Chapman and Harley were injured - they couldn't make the top 10.

As for our clean out, what does this prove? What does that comment even mean? We've cut fringe players (ironcially who were there to give us depth) and replaced them with players of the same nature.

I still fail to see how a team with no depth, can make the top 4, the top 6 and then win 11 games with the worse 3 years of injuries any club in the history of the game has ever faced.

Blah blah blah no depth.

F**k, how much depth are we supposed to have??!! Take out Ball, Hayes, Hudghton, Maguire, BJ, Hamill, Kosi and others from any team and see if they make the top 6.

I doubt it.

I think it's extremely unfair on our 'depth' players to suggest we lack depth.

[bigcarl]

shows there is more than one way to win a premiership. i think a more useful stat is how often teams convert from inside 50 and also number of possessions per goal. We weren't great shakes in either last season

[saintsRrising]

I think it's extremely unfair on our 'depth' players to suggest we lack depth.

1/ Well one many are now gone...so it looks like Ross share my evaluation.



2/ Life is unfair Rodg..... I though we were an AFL Club and not a charity!!!

If you want to win a flag you have to make hard decisions.

GT was a ditherer who did not turn the list over enough and kept too many duds too long...and recruited way too many in the first place.

Yes the GT player benevolent society was in full swing...... you would have his as "fair" on the players that they could hang on way too long.


But it was unfair on Saints fans who had to watch GT mismanage the greatest player gifts that any Saints coach has every had.

Jeans and Alves had to build their teams..

GT was gifted BlightLotto, DraftLotto and BluesCheating lotto to get a huge pool of top talent....only to see him fritter it away by being as you say "fair" to too many players that should have been turned over.

[saintsRrising]

shows there is more than one way to win a premiership. i think a more useful stat is how often teams convert from inside 50 and also number of possessions per goal. We weren't great shakes in either last season

Yes indeed....and they are good stats too.

But the question is how does a team excell at those particular stats?



I would believe that a poorly performing midfield is going to result in a high number of possessions per goal.

as to the conversion rate.....yes we need to improve that...and again this is why schneider is a good pick up for as you have said we need more golakickers and more goalkickers kicking more goals.

[bigcarl]

shows there is more than one way to win a premiership. i think a more useful stat is how often teams convert from inside 50 and also number of possessions per goal. We weren't great shakes in either last season

Yes indeed....and they are good stats too. But the question is how does a team excell at those particular stats? I would believe that a poorly performing midfield is going to result in a high number of possessions per goal. as to the conversion rate.....yes we need to improve that...and again this is why schneider is a good pick up for as you have said we need more golakickers and more goalkickers kicking more goals.

i think the answer lies in a) having guys who can kick goals closer to the goals and b) quick and direct movement of the ball to those players. would be good if mids like ball, dal and joey would have a ping more often, too.

[rodgerfox]

I think it's extremely unfair on our 'depth' players to suggest we lack depth.

1/ Well one many are now gone...so it looks like Ross share my evaluation.

Huh?

We sacked duds who couldn't get a game under two AFL coaches. How does mean 'Ross' shares your evaluation?

If 'Ross' shared your evalution of too much emphasis being put on our 'stars' and not enough on depth, surely he would have traded one of them for a 'depth' player that was actually wanted by another club??

'Ross' obviously doesn't share your view on not recruiting discards.

He, in 2 years, has recruited 6 of them! If you call that addressing depth, then good to you.

2/ Life is unfair Rodg..... I though we were an AFL Club and not a charity!!!

If you want to win a flag you have to make hard decisions.

You are a deadset **** ***. Fair dinkum.

I never suggested we weren't fair by sacking players. I never suggested or came close to saying that we should keep players on our list to be fair to them.

I said you were being unfair by saying we had a depth problem. What I shuold have said (seeing as you clearly were unable to grasp my point), was that you are wrong to say we have a depth problem.

A club that suffers the worst 3 years of injuries suffered by any club in the history of the game - yet makes top 4, top 6 then wins 11 games, cannot have a serious depth problem.

A club like Geelong however who when suffering medium level injuries, finishes in 10th spot - can lay claim to lacking depth. Ditto Collingwood, ditto Sydney and after the way they finished last year - West Coast too.

GT was a ditherer who did not turn the list over enough and kept too many duds too long...and recruited way too many in the first place.

What does GT have to do with this?

Besides, we've just come off a trade period where we picked up 5 discarded players. That makes 7 that players that other clubs discarded and didn't want on their lists that we've picked up in 2 years.

You better call 'Ross' and have a chat to him about that - cause clearly as you bleated on about last year, this is not sensible recruiting. It's clear that he doesn't share your view on this.

But it was unfair on Saints fans who had to watch GT mismanage the greatest player gifts that any Saints coach has every had.

Jeans and Alves had to build their teams..

GT was gifted BlightLotto, DraftLotto and BluesCheating lotto to get a huge pool of top talent....only to see him fritter it away by being as you say "fair" to too many players that should have been turned over.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up GT?

He's gone. He was sacked 2 years ago.

[saintsRrising]

Besides, we've just come off a trade period where we picked up 5 discarded players. That makes 7 that players that other clubs discarded and didn't want on their lists that we've picked up in 2 years.

You better call 'Ross' and have a chat to him about that - cause clearly as you bleated on about last year, this is not sensible recruiting. It's clear that he doesn't share your view on this.

Why Rodge??? Just because YOU have a faulty memory???

Yes I have said that you should not trade your EARLY draft selections for players rejected by their original clubs as not being good enough. That if you believe you see something in a reject that you should use a LATE pick or a PSD selection.

So what has my philosophy got to do with your total misrepresentation of what I have posted on in the past??????

So lets look at your 5..

Schneider..played 21 games in 2007 and 25. Reason the Swans had to get rid of him was due to salary cap problems.

Dempster....traded due to salry cap reasons as well. played 14 and 18 games over the last two years. was thrown into the deal for FREE..and so did not cost a draft selection.

King and C Gardiner.....we obtained both or a pick so late it equates for free. These two were offloaded again for salary cap reasons in the main. You may have also missed this point Rodge,,,but the cats actually selected King in front of Blake for the GF and so right here right now he is rated by the Cats as a first 22 player. Salary cap and a long term view meant that they opted for Blake.


Now number 5... who is that Rodge??????


The other 2....Birrs and Gardiner for pick 43. With Birrs yes at 43 he alone would appear expensive...but with he AND Gardiner for the one pick the risk would appear to have been a good one.

Compare that for example to pick 49 for Mark McGough.

I don't know about you Rodge...but it would seem to me that Ross unlike GT has clearly worked out that you trade to advantage....and more importantly DOES GOOD TRADE DEALS



Now what I have also said is that I prefer to keep early picks for the best kid available and in particular your first round selection.

I posted this draft period for example that in my opinion Pick 9 would have been too great a cost for Woods who is still young....and not a reject.....but who was not quite worth our pick 9.


Yes Rodge GT is gone.......and thank god for that......and due to this our list is being improved and not frittered away.

[rodgerfox]

Besides, we've just come off a trade period where we picked up 5 discarded players. That makes 7 that players that other clubs discarded and didn't want on their lists that we've picked up in 2 years.

You better call 'Ross' and have a chat to him about that - cause clearly as you bleated on about last year, this is not sensible recruiting. It's clear that he doesn't share your view on this.

Why Rodge??? Just because YOU have a faulty memory???

Yes I have said that you should not trade your EARLY draft selections for players rejected by their original clubs as not being good enough. That if you believe you see something in a reject that you should use a LATE pick or a PSD selection.

So what has my philosophy got to do with your total misrepresentation of what I have posted on in the past??????

So lets look at your 5..

Schneider..played 21 games in 2007 and 25. Reason the Swans had to get rid of him was due to salary cap problems.

Yep. Discarded.

Dempster....traded due to salry cap reasons as well. played 14 and 18 games over the last two years. was thrown into the deal for FREE..and so did not cost a draft selection.

Yep, discarded too.

King and C Gardiner.....we obtained both or a pick so late it equates for free. These two were offloaded again for salary cap reasons in the main. You may have also missed this point Rodge,,,but the cats actually selected King in front of Blake for the GF and so right here right now he is rated by the Cats as a first 22 player. Salary cap and a long term view meant that they opted for Blake.

See above. Both discarded.

The other 2....Birrs and Gardiner for pick 43. With Birrs yes at 43 he alone would appear expensive...but with he AND Gardiner for the one pick the risk would appear to have been a good one.

Yep, discarded. Throw in Attard too - discarded.

I don't know about you Rodge...but it would seem to me that Ross unlike GT has clearly worked out that you trade to advantage....and more importantly DOES GOOD TRADE DEALS

Hang on a minute, since when are we talking about doing 'good deals'??

We're talking about Lyon (sorry I just don't feel right being on a first name basis with someone I've never met) agreeing with you about us lacking depth and us putting too much emphasis on our superstars.

Then we go and cut 6 duds from our list (which apparently was your idea, Lyon just followed your lead) then go and recruit 7 discards from other clubs. A concept which you crapped on about being disastrous, and a massive mistake. But now it's all good?? All the while not one 'superstar' was put up for trade. Not even a middle tier 'superstar' such as Milne was put forward as trade to improve our disastrous depth problem.

What ******* arrogance to suggest that 'Ross' agrees with your crap. You wanker. Fair dinkum.

Yes Rodge GT is gone.......and thank god for that......

Move on - it's been 100 years since he was sacked. I know you're struggling with the fact that all the nonsense you harped on about is being contradicted directly by Lyon - but that's no Thomas' fault - it's yours. You were wrong.

and due to this our list is being improved and not frittered away.

Is it? We've cut a bunch of guys who were no good and couldn't get a game under 2 coaches - and replaced with them with 7 guys who other clubs didn't want. We also picked up a couple more who other clubs wouldn't even put on their list.

Throw in a couple of retirements to 'wanted' players and I don't really see how the list is better at all. Perhaps our ladder position last year may support that.


Basically you're agreeing with me. But you didn't need to type 5000 words to say that - you could have simply said "Yes, Rodgerfox you're right. I'm full of it and change my tune to whatever the flavour of the month is. I've been outright wrong for the past 3 years and now that Lyon isn't producing what I said he would and needed to do, I'm slowly twisting my words to save face."
That's all you needed to say.

[saintsRrising]

Besides, we've just come off a trade period where we picked up 5 discarded players.

I am still waiting Rodge...who is the fifth????

[saintsRrising]

Hang on a minute, since when are we talking about doing 'good deals'??

Ooops sorry Rodge....thats right as a GT disciple trading to advantage and to improve the overall quality of a teams list is a foreign concept......and just simply not in your mindset.

I might just as well try talking to an Eskimo about Evaporative Cooling!!!


Personally In my view Ross and his team greatly EXCEEDED any expectations I had from trade week....and did so by a huge margin.

[rodgerfox]

Hang on a minute, since when are we talking about doing 'good deals'??

Ooops sorry Rodge....thats right as a GT disciple trading to advantage and to improve the overall quality of a teams list is a foreign concept......and just simply not in your mindset.

I might just as well try talking to an Eskimo about Evaporative Cooling!!!


Personally In my view Ross and his team greatly EXCEEDED any expectations I had from trade week....and did so by a huge margin.

Stop squirming.

We're not talking about trade week here.

[barks4eva]

If you want to win a flag you have to make hard decisions.

GT was a ditherer who did not turn the list over enough and kept too many duds too long...and recruited way too many in the first place.

Yes the GT player benevolent society was in full swing...... you would have his as "fair" on the players that they could hang on way too long.


But it was unfair on Saints fans who had to watch GT mismanage the greatest player gifts that any Saints coach has every had.

Jeans and Alves had to build their teams..

GT was gifted BlightLotto, DraftLotto and BluesCheating lotto to get a huge pool of top talent....only to see him fritter it away by being as you say "fair" to too many players that should have been turned over.

Absolutely agree 100%

Anyone who knows the truth, KNOWS that Thomas Maximus had his favourites and he concentrated too much on too few

Some players stayed in the elite father/son type relationship, others came and went in the elite circle, but a vast majority were neglected

Many listed Casey players were just forsaken almost entirely

One player actually admitted that by the 1/2 way stage of the season that Thomas had not even spoken to him

[bigcarl]

shows there is more than one way to win a premiership. i think a more useful stat is how often teams convert from inside 50 and also number of possessions per goal. We weren't great shakes in either last season

Yes indeed....and they are good stats too. But the question is how does a team excell at those particular stats? I would believe that a poorly performing midfield is going to result in a high number of possessions per goal. as to the conversion rate.....yes we need to improve that...and again this is why schneider is a good pick up for as you have said we need more golakickers and more goalkickers kicking more goals.

i think the answer lies in a) having guys who can kick goals closer to the goals and b) quick and direct movement of the ball to those players. would be good if mids like ball, dal and joey would have a ping more often, too

[rodgerfox]

If you want to win a flag you have to make hard decisions.

GT was a ditherer who did not turn the list over enough and kept too many duds too long...and recruited way too many in the first place.

Yes the GT player benevolent society was in full swing...... you would have his as "fair" on the players that they could hang on way too long.


But it was unfair on Saints fans who had to watch GT mismanage the greatest player gifts that any Saints coach has every had.

Jeans and Alves had to build their teams..

GT was gifted BlightLotto, DraftLotto and BluesCheating lotto to get a huge pool of top talent....only to see him fritter it away by being as you say "fair" to too many players that should have been turned over.

Absolutely agree 100%

Anyone who knows the truth, KNOWS that Thomas Maximus had his favourites and he concentrated too much on too few

Some players stayed in the elite father/son type relationship, others came and went in the elite circle, but a vast majority were neglected

Many listed Casey players were just forsaken almost entirely

One player actually admitted that by the 1/2 way stage of the season that Thomas had not even spoken to him

Perhaps you and SR can start another thread on Thomas and chat all day about it.

This thread isn't about Thomas. He's gone, move on.

[saintsRrising]

shows there is more than one way to win a premiership. i think a more useful stat is how often teams convert from inside 50 and also number of possessions per goal. We weren't great shakes in either last season

Yes indeed....and they are good stats too. But the question is how does a team excell at those particular stats? I would believe that a poorly performing midfield is going to result in a high number of possessions per goal. as to the conversion rate.....yes we need to improve that...and again this is why schneider is a good pick up for as you have said we need more golakickers and more goalkickers kicking more goals.

i think the answer lies in a) having guys who can kick goals closer to the goals and b) quick and direct movement of the ball to those players. would be good if mids like ball, dal and joey would have a ping more often, too

agree...well 95% anyway

[saintsRrising]

you could have simply said "Yes, Rodgerfox you're right. I'm full of it and change my tune to whatever the flavour of the month is. I've been outright wrong for the past 3 years and now that Lyon isn't producing what I said he would and needed to do, I'm slowly twisting my words to save face."
That's all you needed to say.

Err cough...only trouble is Rodge is that I have not changed my tune.

For example I wrote and posted this BEFORE Ross took charge..

List Management
Which way forward?
by SaintsRrising

Status:
In terms of building the perfect premiership team our needs are:
• True tall tap ruckman
• Two more quick and skilled midfielders
• One Gorilla full back.

Now having said that there is no such thing as a perfect team. The Eagles are for example chock full of some sensational players . . . but do not have a perfect list. The Eagles though are working hard on their weaknesses. i.e. KFs. Glass emerging as big full back this year was a big plus for them. Hansen and Lynch who are both 23 are likely to both get better for the Eagles thus improving their team.

There is a high benchmark at present and the Saints need to improve in order to exceed it.
Raw potential:
Talking Windows I think we have seen the first window of a premiership for the Saints has closed . . . i.e. the one that would have been led by our older core of players. Peckett, Powell and Aussie are now gone . . .

Our older guard players that are now remaining will be support players rather than the core that we win with.

However our second window of opportunity is fortunately already opening for us . . . and if a lot goes right it may even snag us a flag in 2007 which would be great for Banger.

Our current list has the raw talent required to win a flag . . . but only if a number of players improve. ie any or all of:
• Brooks and Rix in the ruck. That this two develop into a reasonable ruck duo . . . and by that I mean have the ability to palm the ball to the advantage of our midfielders.
• Hamill actually playing
• The Clarke's finding fitness and Raph learning to dish the ball off to adavantage.
• Fiora playing good football week, in week out.
• McQualter stepping up to earn a regular spot in the midfield rotation.
• Kosi having a solid year.
• Gilbert ripening a year earlier than expected to give us that extra tall backman option in 2007.
• Rix to improve as ruck or key defensive back. There were good signs in 2006 and remember that he is 25 and that players of his height often bloom late ( ie Troy Simmonds turned 28 this year and had arguably his best year ever).
• That Joey and Gram conitinue on with the years that they had this year . . . and indeed that Gram morphs into a midfielder.
• That Roo learns how to kick straight at goal (. . . and one hopes to hear that a secret new football boot is about to be launched onto the world market that improves accuracy and power in kicking).
• That GTrain has a consistently good year.
• That Milne is returned to the forward pocket and plays like we know he can . . . and that he learns how to stick a tackle.
• That Hayes and Maguire as a minimum are fully fit and firing by mid-way thru 2007.
• That Ball's Op allows him much greater freedom and ability to kick than he had in 2006.
• . . . and maybe just maybe McG being harnessed to make effective use of his ball winning ability (though I am willing to skip this one).

However that is a lot of if's . . . we do not need all of them but yes, you would need most of them.

To top up . . . or to be slow and steady???
Will the "new order" emphasis be to put absolute priority to win the flag in 2007 and 2008 . . . or will the attitude be more to win it in 2007 if we can but to recruit more on the basis of best possible winning chance from 2008 to 2012.

Both approaches still require:
• True tall tap ruckman
• Two more quick and skilled midfielders
• One guerrilla full back.

Winning it in 2007 and 2008:
If this is the absolute main focus, then this will see greater weight being giving to trading either players or draft picks to get our needs addressed with players that can play now.

In terms of rucks . . . the only real option would appear to be Everitt . . . a bit of a gamble here given his lust for $ and off field antics. However no other quality ruckman, in term as of football ability is likely to be available on 2007. Everitt could possibly be taken in the PSD making his acquisition trade wise a "steal". As his salary can be halved as a veteran the first 8 teams would be unlikely to take him in the PSD . . . except maybe the Cats. He is worth more to the Saints than the Cats though.

With a ruckman, players such as Cox, Sandilands and Hudson have all been overlooked . . . so there is some gold out there for either the draft or rookie draft if we are able to spot it. JB needs to be given some extra resources.

Midfielders:
Pick 9 should probably gain us one. A second quick and skilled midfielder may not be available but someone like Kelly could be picked up for better midfield depth.
Thommo would be retained.
Aka would be looked at . . .

Full back:
For a Gorilla FB Mal Michael is the obvious option. However his team mate in Bradshaw is also well worth a look. At 27 is younger and also has the advantage of being a true swing player that can play either end. However you would imagine that the Cats and Dogs would be desperate for him and that this would bid up his trade value.

Look at one of the younger key backs who are currently not "happy" with their club.

Best possible winning chance from 2008 to 2012
With this scenario in trades for players are less likely . . . however the club will still be alert to deals of advantage. Players that address our weaknesses that can be obtained for a reasonable trade. i.e. Fiora and Meesen . . . or Fiora and Salopek (though this would require something extra from the Saints but Fiora is a PA boy . . . )

Kelly
Everitt would not be traded for, but may still be taken in the PSD.

Our first 2 picks of 9 and 27 would definitely not be traded . . . and most likely all would be kept. Of the 5 (or 6 picks) expect 3 to be midfielder types.

Gilbert will be the player we back to be our next back . . . along possibly with Rix for selected games and opponents.

The ruck stocks will be boosted by at least one draft pick (maybe a player aged 22+) and/or a rookie selections. A lot of effort needs to go into identifying possible ruck talent. Look at aquiring a young ruckman who has done a couple of years development.

Thommo may be retained.

With both approaches we need to do more with our Rookies . . . and to resource JB better . . . this means extra staff . . . or contractors.

Now which way will the Club go????? It will be interesting to watch.

The Post and Thread - 'saintsRrising' et al/saintsational.com

[rodgerfox]

you could have simply said "Yes, Rodgerfox you're right. I'm full of it and change my tune to whatever the flavour of the month is. I've been outright wrong for the past 3 years and now that Lyon isn't producing what I said he would and needed to do, I'm slowly twisting my words to save face."
That's all you needed to say.

Err cough...only trouble is Rodge is that I have not changed my tune.

For example I wrote and posted this BEFORE Ross took charge..


blah blah, ***ing blah....

So, you've taken 90,000 words to say that you think we need to improve to win a flag?

Brilliant! You're a genius! Thank god 'Ross' thinks just like you!

You've gone on to say that if we decide to try to win the flag in 07, we need to recruit ready made players. Whoa!! Genius!!!

But if we look longer term, then we need to develop players, so we use the draft. Whoa!!!! My head is spinning here!! This is briliant foresight!!

Fair dinkum.

You've said we should try to do trade deals which are good for the club. OH MY GOD!! I nearly fell of my chair with this revelation!!!


After reading that essay of total drivel, I still can't find one word that actual reveals anything.

You've actually said we have the raw talent to win the flag, if players improve. And oddly, the improvements you listed are pretty much based on them being injury free.

So you did think our list was good enough to win a flag if fit. You've said that above clearly. You've said above that the list we had in place was good enough to win the flag.

But now you're saying that our list is terrible, and it's just lucky that you and 'Ross' are here to fix it by recruiting discards from other clubs.
That's funny cause last year you were claiming that recruiting discards is definately not the way to go. You claimed 'Ross' would never do this sort of thing. Now you're all for it??
You are so full of it, and re-posting that mind numbing garbage has just backed up my argument once again.

I wonder what your 10 page ramblings will be about next year? Well I can guarantee 9 of those pages will be mindless and boring nonsense of the most obvious nature imaginable - and the other page will depend solely on who wins the flag and what magical things they employed (which you already knew about) which got them over the line.

[saintsRrising]

So you did think our list was good enough to win a flag if fit. You've said that above clearly. You've said above that the list we had in place was good enough to win the flag.
.

IF enough players improved Rodge as written with a number of other IFs Rodge....unfortunately for example Mcqualter did not improve....maybe you did not notice????



You have still FAILED to prove how I have changed my tune. but that is noraml for you as your tactic when losing an argument is to change the topic or make false accusations none of which you can ever back up.



And as usual Rodger....you have failed to answer any questions asked of you which is why a number of Forumites call you Dodger.


So Rodge WHO is that FIFTH discard that you calim we secured in this years trade week????

[rodgerfox]

So you did think our list was good enough to win a flag if fit. You've said that above clearly. You've said above that the list we had in place was good enough to win the flag.
.

IF enough players improved Rodge as written with a number of other IFs Rodge....unfortunately for example Mcqualter did not improve....maybe you did not notice????

You have still FAILED to prove how I have changed my tune.

Huh??

You clearly stated in that ridiculous rant that you foolishly re-posted, that our list was good enough to win the flag. It's clear - it's there in black and white!

Now you're saying that luckily for us (I still can't get past this arrogance) that Ross thinks like you and it addressing our appalling list that has no depth because our stars have had too much focus put on them.

Yet above, you've clearly said our list is good enough to win the flag!!

Is not not a clear enough case of changing your tune?????

And that's only 1 example. Do you want me to embarrass you further and provide more?

So Rodge WHO is that FIFTH discard that you calim we secured in this years trade week????

Did we not elevate Attard to our list?

Where did he come from? Outer space?

[rodgerfox]

And on topic - yes, we need a forward line that kicks goals.