Hear hear Saints66au, I totally agree although I WILL be happy if he follows his 2007 with a good 2008saint66au wrote:saintspremiers wrote:Fiora was most of our favourite players to bag the shyte out of due to his softness up and until this season began.
IMO he has turned the corner somewhat.....whilst he is not as hard as we'd like to him to be, he's certainly proved his worth in the side and is far more valueable now than 12 months ago.
But IMO to say because he's a bit on the soft side means he's not worthy of a spot in the 22 is wrong.
I doubt he'll ever be one of my favourite players, but it's hard to really like all of the 22 players on the field/selected side each week equally!
Speak for yourself...purely because of the crap he cops from a select few on here (one poster even sledging him in his sig) I take particular pleasure in seeing Fizz play well. I was very happy with his 2008 season and yes EVERY player who pulls on the RW&B each week has my respect. I dont turn up to a game with any of our players in my sights. If thats rose-coloured glasses then I'll cope
Fiora: Is he still soft???
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Re: Fiora: Is he still soft???
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Re: Fiora: Is he still soft???
saint66au wrote: I was very happy with his 2008 season and yes EVERY player who pulls on the RW&B each week has my respect.
Is there something you are not telling us Michael.
Seeing you know how well Fizz is going to play in 2008
Can you tell us if we are going to win the flag? and why you are about it, who is going to win the brownlow, norm smith, Nab rising star and coleman medal so I can put bets on now!
Thanks in advance for your help !!!!
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He's never been a squib minus 1 odd incident... even in his debut year for us he quite cosistently but his body on the line when it mattered... refer u to the numerous marks he took infront of Barry Hall, backing back into a pack... that takes real guts
The smarter forumites call him soft becuase of his inability to influence games when it matters... i think the technical term is fair-weather player (or something like that).
Prior to this season u could rely on him to play good games in matches where we won by 30+ points but in losses or games that went down to the wire he was NOWHERE or totally ineffective. What's more he tended to play really soft Heath Black football (hang round the backline and get easy kicks letting other backman kick it to u coz ur the quarterback... this was evidenced by his game at TD vs Adel where he got 35'ish of the weakest possessions I've ever seen and didn't influence the match at all)
I still cant believe ppl think that was his best game
At the start of this season, I had very little time for Fizz. Even when forumites complimented his early season form my attitute towards him was still somewhat "yeah whatever"... flashy but with no substance.
IMO this year he has done less single effort brilliant stuff and really raised the bar by improving the 1%s in his game... chasing, spoiling, accountability, contesting, running etc on set shots, IMO he's actually one of our more reliable players... this has ensured a better baseline oerformance from him all year
As has been mentioned he still needs to work on his kicking for goal on the run and IMO he needs to take his fitness up another notch and become a permenant member of the midfield rotation. Step it up the way Lenny did a few years ago
The smarter forumites call him soft becuase of his inability to influence games when it matters... i think the technical term is fair-weather player (or something like that).
Prior to this season u could rely on him to play good games in matches where we won by 30+ points but in losses or games that went down to the wire he was NOWHERE or totally ineffective. What's more he tended to play really soft Heath Black football (hang round the backline and get easy kicks letting other backman kick it to u coz ur the quarterback... this was evidenced by his game at TD vs Adel where he got 35'ish of the weakest possessions I've ever seen and didn't influence the match at all)
I still cant believe ppl think that was his best game
At the start of this season, I had very little time for Fizz. Even when forumites complimented his early season form my attitute towards him was still somewhat "yeah whatever"... flashy but with no substance.
IMO this year he has done less single effort brilliant stuff and really raised the bar by improving the 1%s in his game... chasing, spoiling, accountability, contesting, running etc on set shots, IMO he's actually one of our more reliable players... this has ensured a better baseline oerformance from him all year
As has been mentioned he still needs to work on his kicking for goal on the run and IMO he needs to take his fitness up another notch and become a permenant member of the midfield rotation. Step it up the way Lenny did a few years ago
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Those who think he was soft think he still is now, to a degree. Those who think he's not soft now think he never was.
Re: the marks
There were two spectacular marks by Fiora, but one was this year and one last year.
The 2007 mark was against Fremantle at Subiaco in Round 9. It wasn't really gutsy at all, just spectacular. Fiora took a straightforward mark about 40m out and his legs were cannoned into from the front, which caused him to flip forward on descent.
The 2006 mark was against West Coast at Docklands in Round 18. Fiora ran blindly with the flight of the ball and took a chest mark in the goalsquare. This was also the match where Maguire broke his leg.
Re: the marks
There were two spectacular marks by Fiora, but one was this year and one last year.
The 2007 mark was against Fremantle at Subiaco in Round 9. It wasn't really gutsy at all, just spectacular. Fiora took a straightforward mark about 40m out and his legs were cannoned into from the front, which caused him to flip forward on descent.
The 2006 mark was against West Coast at Docklands in Round 18. Fiora ran blindly with the flight of the ball and took a chest mark in the goalsquare. This was also the match where Maguire broke his leg.
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no he is not soft but he is crap. I agree with others he is inconsistant and when the pressure is on he turns the ball over. He has worked on his hardness I will give him that but he makes too many mistakes. Those thats say he is in our best 22 must realise that whilst he is in our best 22 we will never win a flag. Maybe he is a back up player, I dont know I have nothings against him personally just cannot stand watching him play for the saints. both my brothers and my father agree.
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Was Aussie Jones a hard nut????
Did he play good football for the Saints????
Each and every player is different.
Some are hard nuts...some not. and yes for overall balance the saints probably lack a hard nut or two...
However the key question is...are they contributing enough value to justify their place?
Is Fiora contributing enough? = YES
I think with Fiora that people should perhaps start looking at his plusses...rather than his minuses. If you stop and reflect then you might be surprised.
For example late in the season Ross used him at times in an INSIDE mid role...where he was deft and quick at accurately handballing the ball out. this froma player who many had labelled as an OUTSIDE player only.
Fiora soft??? Well during 2007 he was often fearless. I remember one game where he was whacked 3 times head high...but he kept going in. I remember another time where he lept sky high.....colliding witha player almost breaking his neck on landing. Fiora soft???? No he is not. He is no hard nut....but he is not soft.
I am expecting a very good 2008 from Fiora and predict it will be his best year yet.
Did he play good football for the Saints????
Each and every player is different.
Some are hard nuts...some not. and yes for overall balance the saints probably lack a hard nut or two...
However the key question is...are they contributing enough value to justify their place?
Is Fiora contributing enough? = YES
I think with Fiora that people should perhaps start looking at his plusses...rather than his minuses. If you stop and reflect then you might be surprised.
For example late in the season Ross used him at times in an INSIDE mid role...where he was deft and quick at accurately handballing the ball out. this froma player who many had labelled as an OUTSIDE player only.
Fiora soft??? Well during 2007 he was often fearless. I remember one game where he was whacked 3 times head high...but he kept going in. I remember another time where he lept sky high.....colliding witha player almost breaking his neck on landing. Fiora soft???? No he is not. He is no hard nut....but he is not soft.
I am expecting a very good 2008 from Fiora and predict it will be his best year yet.
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Fiora's goal kicking is only suspect because most of his shots are in general plan, on the run from 50....With pressure.
Unlike a certain player that seems to get defended even when missing easy set shots directly in front....Very few seem to want to compare that to others players such as J Brown who can nail dying minutes shots from the boundary, 60 meters out......
Unlike a certain player that seems to get defended even when missing easy set shots directly in front....Very few seem to want to compare that to others players such as J Brown who can nail dying minutes shots from the boundary, 60 meters out......
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Re: Fiora: Is he still soft???
Fiona is still soft. And mark my words. Please keep these filed somewhere and by all means give it to me at the end of next years season if I am wrong.saint66au wrote: Speak for yourself...purely because of the crap he cops from a select few on here (one poster even sledging him in his sig) I take particular pleasure in seeing Fizz play well.
Fiona will go backwards next year!
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Going hard does not come naturally to Fiora like it does to Luke Ball for instance.
However he seems to be making a comcerted effort to turn this around.
IMO, from time to time he has a concentration lapse and doesn't go as hard as he should.
Has improved in this area but has a way to go IMO.
However he seems to be making a comcerted effort to turn this around.
IMO, from time to time he has a concentration lapse and doesn't go as hard as he should.
Has improved in this area but has a way to go IMO.
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Against the Eagles in Round 12, he had 7 disposals in the last quarter when the game was in the balance.
Against the Bulldogs in Round 18, he had 6 disposals in the last quarter when the game was in the balance.
Fiora doubled his tackle rate in 2007.
Lyon used him in a very clever way, with maximum game time in the second half, and seemingly taught him how to run offensively.
Against the Bulldogs in Round 18, he had 6 disposals in the last quarter when the game was in the balance.
Fiora doubled his tackle rate in 2007.
Lyon used him in a very clever way, with maximum game time in the second half, and seemingly taught him how to run offensively.
They should only play AFL games now when it's raining. Slow games of footy are so much better to watch.
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Ross Lyon seemed to identify that we needed some more run & carry ability. He picked Fiora as a player with a high level of skill, that needed to work harder in a game. He became a very important player for us in 07' and stepped up in a big way. No AFL player is soft - it is a tough game to play at that level, with a high injury rate. Fiora is a good player - now gaining confidence thanks to his coach. Interesting year next year for him - he really needs to consolidate himself in this talented team as an established senior player. He is now running harder to the right spots. Gets plenty of the ball and runs well - links up our game. Very skillful player and a more than handy mark. Needs to nail those running goals more often. But a very good year for him in 07'.
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I agree with you Armoooo.Armoooo wrote:He is not the softest player going around but he still isn't exactly a hardnut, he doesn't mind taking a bump, my main problem with him is his consistency or his lack of it, if he could put in a solid 4 quarter game more often I would rate him a lot higher than what he is doing atm...
Some players just don't thrive on the phyisical contact. As juniors, they avoid it and it and can often get away with it. It's not neccessarily because they are scared or soft, but because it's just not a natural part of their game.
In the big league you can't. You can still try to avoid it, but you need to be able to absord the physicality aswell. Sometimes you can't avoid it, and sometimes you even have to go looking for it.
Alot of players struggle with this adaptation.
Nigel Lappin and Jason Akermanis are two that come to mind. They were 'squibs' when they started out. They would avoid the contact at all costs. However as time went by, they would still generally try to avoid it but were able to handle it when they needed to. They didn't avoid contests because they were scared, but because good players play to their strengths.
They could be outside players when they needed to, but they could hold tackles and take hits when they needed to also.
It made them great players.
Dal is one of these. He should avoid contact when he can, because he's at his best when he has the ball and has space. However you don't always get the ball given to you - so you need to be able to influence contests physically when you have to.
I see Fiora as the same. He should avoid the physical contact when he needs to, but he must be able to take it when he needs to aswell. He's still learning this but has certainly improved.
We actually a few of these guys. It's an area where I thought GT did well. X, Joey, Milne, Fiora, Dal and Aussie were all guys who made our list appear 'the best in the comp' but in reality we were very much an 'outside' list. We had to change the natural style of these guys' games - that's not an easy thing to do.
Aussie improved (but still physical contact was a weakness), Joey has improved, X certainly has improved and Dal definately. Milne still struggles in this area.
This will be a huge test for Lyon, and potentially the difference between a flag and a top 6 finish - getting 'outside' players like Fiora to be able to influence physical contests aswell. At the very least, they need to be able to break even in physical contests - not get beaten.
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Good post rodgerfox ... Fiora doubling his tackle rate in 2007 suggest that he was working harder at imposing himself on the contested side of the game.
Dal has spent a lot of time in the packs 06-07, mainly because of injuries to our other mids and a decline in midfield stocks, but in Rounds 16 and 17 this year, he didn't lay a tackle.
He also polled 6 Brownlow votes and was at his most damaging.
So you are totally correct in your assessment of him being at his best in space - but he was also the #2 contested possessions player at the Saints in '06 and '07.
X was one who really turned around in that area, almost going to far the other way and becoming stupid with the way he threw himself into packs.
Dal has spent a lot of time in the packs 06-07, mainly because of injuries to our other mids and a decline in midfield stocks, but in Rounds 16 and 17 this year, he didn't lay a tackle.
He also polled 6 Brownlow votes and was at his most damaging.
So you are totally correct in your assessment of him being at his best in space - but he was also the #2 contested possessions player at the Saints in '06 and '07.
X was one who really turned around in that area, almost going to far the other way and becoming stupid with the way he threw himself into packs.
They should only play AFL games now when it's raining. Slow games of footy are so much better to watch.
Too personal question to be asking on an forum populated by young people.Fiora: Is he still soft???
To pick on a players personal attributes like that is definately below the belt.
Given the right set of circumstances, I'm sure he will be a fine upstanding young man.
We should not be touching this.
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I giggled.GrumpyOne wrote:Too personal question to be asking on an forum populated by young people.Fiora: Is he still soft???
To pick on a players personal attributes like that is definately below the belt.
Given the right set of circumstances, I'm sure he will be a fine upstanding young man.
We should not be touching this.
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then how do you explain this quote below?Barney2 wrote: He is a guy that can win you a game.
is that the biggest backflip ever?Barney2 wrote: Fiora, bit soft.
did you see him kick for goal this year. he generally is a good kick, but if he is the best, were in s***.Barney2 wrote: but has skills that noon else has
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Re: Fiora: Is he still soft???
Careful buddy, someone was nearly sick on Big Footy the other day 'cause of that attitude; don't you know Saints supporters have the right to make disrespectful remarks about our players! oh, all in the name of mere criticism. so repent fellasaint66au wrote:saintspremiers wrote:Fiora was most of our favourite players to bag the shyte out of due to his softness up and until this season began.
IMO he has turned the corner somewhat.....whilst he is not as hard as we'd like to him to be, he's certainly proved his worth in the side and is far more valueable now than 12 months ago.
But IMO to say because he's a bit on the soft side means he's not worthy of a spot in the 22 is wrong.
I doubt he'll ever be one of my favourite players, but it's hard to really like all of the 22 players on the field/selected side each week equally!
Speak for yourself...purely because of the crap he cops from a select few on here (one poster even sledging him in his sig) I take particular pleasure in seeing Fizz play well. I was very happy with his 2008 season and yes EVERY player who pulls on the RW&B each week has my respect. I dont turn up to a game with any of our players in my sights. If thats rose-coloured glasses then I'll cope
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I'm, pretty sure that Barney has BiPolar or there actually are 2 of them because he seems to have so many conflicting opinions on every issue.fonz_#15 wrote:then how do you explain this quote below?Barney2 wrote: He is a guy that can win you a game.
is that the biggest backflip ever?Barney2 wrote: Fiora, bit soft.
did you see him kick for goal this year. he generally is a good kick, but if he is the best, were in s***.Barney2 wrote: but has skills that noon else has
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