R.Lyon Clean out

[locoplayaz]

20 players gone in just over a year..

2006
C.Ackland - De-list
M.McGough - De-list
A.Murry - De-list
J.Peckett - Ret
T.Schwarze - De-list
S.Powell - Ret
E.McDonnell - De-list
C.Corr - De-list
Dylan Pfitzner - De-list

2007
A.Hamill - Ret
F.Gehrig - Ret
M.Clarke - Ret
B.Voss - Ret
A.Thompson - Ret
F.Watts - De-list
B.Brooks - De-list
A.McQulater - De-list
J.Sweeney - De-list
P.Raymond - De-list
J.Wall - De-List

[Oh When the Saints]

That's poor list management, but a set of cumulative factors over recent years have forced RL's hand.

Good to see he can make the required decisions.


He's certainly got his own squad together now.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

the man has balls...plain and simple

our list in our finals playing years was either of exceptional players or genuine sh.ite

[locoplayaz]

Is our core group just not good enough?

L.Fisher M.Hudghton S.Fisher
J.Gram M.Maguire B.Goddard
S.Baker L.Ball L.Montagna
A.Fiora N.Riewoldt R.Harvey
X.Clarke J.Koschitzke S.Milne
??? L.Hayes N.Dal Santo

We seem to be getting rid of everyone
outside this group of players..
Obviously because none of them can
get any game time, but why?

We keep turning over ruckmen to
supposedly fix our problem there..
But is that really the problem?

With such a good side on paper why
are we not seeing results? Why are the
players who can't get a game becoming
the scapegoats?

C.Jones
J.Attard
J.Geary
R.Eddy
L.Van Rheenen
B.Howard
D.Armitage
J.Allen

All raw players on our list brought in last season,
add another 6 to that with Draft and Rookie Picks..

J.Blake
J.Gwilt
M.Ferguson
R.Clarke
M.Rix
S.Gilbert

These guys with the exception of Gilbert
look to be next seasons scapegoats already..

S.King
A.Schneider
C.Gardiner
S.Dempster
M.Gardiner
S.Birss

And the Mr.Fix its who we have traded for,
will the have any affect on the season? Add
1 more from the Pre-Season draft this year
and that's 7 players all of whomb will stuggle
to get into our best 18.

Just curious to know what other think of this
how do I say.. situation?? Good/Bad? Compared
to a club say Geelong?

[Oh When the Saints]

Ross Lyon said after Round 22 that there were 16 players on St Kilda's list good enough to play in a premiership team.


Schneider is a walk-up start in any team in the AFL, as is Steven King. Both of those players will definitely add to the strength of our 22.

So we've now got 18 players who are good enough. With Armitage's development, that will be 19.

We need others to come along ... and they will develop from your fringe and youngsters.

Hence we have boosted our stocks of youth and our fringe players.

[TimeToShineFellas]

20 players gone in just over a year..

2006
C.Ackland - De-list
M.McGough - De-list
A.Murry - De-list
J.Peckett - Ret
T.Schwarze - De-list
S.Powell - Ret
E.McDonnell - De-list
C.Corr - De-list
Dylan Pfitzner - De-list

2007
A.Hamill - Ret
F.Gehrig - Ret
M.Clarke - Ret
B.Voss - Ret
A.Thompson - Ret
F.Watts - De-list
B.Brooks - De-list
A.McQulater - De-list
J.Sweeney - De-list
P.Raymond - De-list
J.Wall - De-List

And only 2 or 3 of those listed will be hard to replace..........

The fair majority of them had nil to minimal impact.

[saintsRrising]

But 6 were retirements...guys who ahd reach the end..

J.Peckett - Ret
F.Gehrig - Ret
M.Clarke - Ret
B.Voss - Ret
S.Powell - Ret
A.Thompson - Ret


One was due to injury...

A.Hamill - Ret

Leaving the last group where there was not much quality...only McQualter and Brooks could really be argued to have had a reasonable dose of potential talent that was not realised.

There area few rookies and by definition there will always be high turnover of this group.

C.Ackland - De-list who walked..

M.McGough - De-list
A.Murry - De-list
T.Schwarze - De-list
E.McDonnell - De-list
C.Corr - De-list
Dylan Pfitzner - De-list
F.Watts - De-list
B.Brooks - De-list
A.McQulater - De-list
J.Sweeney - De-list
P.Raymond - De-list
J.Wall - De-List


So not a lot there in this last group.....the right call by Ross to cull players and seek others who may improve our best 22. The wrong call by his predecessor to have assembled so much wood. I mean for example how long was Dylan on various lists....he really should have been turned overa lot quicker. There should have beena higher rate of turnover......and while not all picks will work out post waldon we semedto have gota ot of calls wrong.

[Ghost Like]

Ross Lyon said after Round 22 that there were 16 players on St Kilda's list good enough to play in a premiership team.

Who do you think the 16 players are he was referring to OWTS?

[cwrcyn]

We keep turning over ruckmen for a pretty obvious reason. Don't panic though, Van Rheenen will make it and he'll be the first St Kilda bred young ruckman to make the grade since Everitt in 1994(?)

Geary will also make the grade.

[Dan Warna]

watts and mcqualter I believe deserved more time.

there was a good arguement to give brooks more game time based on his magoos form.

mcgough - better disposal than CJ, but not by much, then again he was a ball magneet and tough as nails, still young but needed to improve a lot to be a premiership midfielder.
a. Murray - injured and sadly decision making was poor. had talent
T. Schwarz - by all acounts was the stupidity of his manager who overrated him and his value to the saints, would have played in 07 and made good money on match payments alone.
mcDonnel, sweeney, raymond, wall, corr pfiztners - never saw em play

as for the retirements not much you can do, with the exception of voss and POSSIBLY FG the right decision, they all played the right amount of time and got the most of themselves.

I believe Voss was poorly treated and I believe FG even given his limitations would have been a top 5 FF in 08 as well. but the reason I said possibly, is that if he had enough then not much you can do about it.

[Oh When the Saints]

Ross Lyon said after Round 22 that there were 16 players on St Kilda's list good enough to play in a premiership team.

Who do you think the 16 players are he was referring to OWTS?

Just a guess, but:
Hudghton
Gilbert
S. Fisher
Maguire
Gram
Montagna
Dal Santo
Goddard
X. Clarke
Riewoldt
Harvey
Milne
Baker
Koschitzke
Hayes
Ball
-------------------
And obviously the following are (as all have played in premiership teams):
-------------------
King
Schneider
Dempster


So that now makes 19 players.

[St Fidelius]

I would include fiora on that list

[stinger]

Ross Lyon said after Round 22 that there were 16 players on St Kilda's list good enough to play in a premiership team.


Schneider is a walk-up start in any team in the AFL, as is Steven King. Both of those players will definitely add to the strength of our 22.

So we've now got 18 players who are good enough. With Armitage's development, that will be 19.

We need others to come along ... and they will develop from your fringe and youngsters.

Hence we have boosted our stocks of youth and our fringe players.

before or after fraser said he was quitting...?

[ben_fff]

Ross Lyon said after Round 22 that there were 16 players on St Kilda's list good enough to play in a premiership team.


Schneider is a walk-up start in any team in the AFL, as is Steven King. Both of those players will definitely add to the strength of our 22.

So we've now got 18 players who are good enough. With Armitage's development, that will be 19.

We need others to come along ... and they will develop from your fringe and youngsters.

Hence we have boosted our stocks of youth and our fringe players.

before or after fraser said he was quitting...?

It was after r22 so you'd think it was excluding Fraser.

[fingers]

Sorry to jump on the end of this thread....RL has inherited poor list management. What we are seeing from him is the start of good list management.

[killa_gram]

I would include fiora on that list

I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Ghost Like]

Cheers OWTS, I think you listed 17 so plus King, Schnieder & Dempster and Fiora (as St Fid said), throw in Raph with pressure from Allen, Armo, Geary and Pick 9 we may as well contact the makers of memorabillia, the 2008 Cup is ours!

Not to bad as long as we do not anger the Injury Gods again, surely we've layed enough sacrifices before them?

[stinger]

i would have thought at that stage he would have included hamill...so he doesn't rate two from your list....

[n1ck]

watts and mcqualter I believe deserved more time.

there was a good arguement to give brooks more game time based on his magoos form.

Agree fully on the first two, and mostly on Brooks, although I can understand why he was chopped.

Mini and Watts deserved one more year, especially with the retirements, and Brooks didnt get a fair go after his knee problems. The fact that he didnt get a go, counted against him in the end, with him playing less than 10games over so many years or whatever it was.

[stkfc1]

I would include fiora on that list

agree on Fizz, got a feeling we're yet to see how good this guy is going to be.... Players like Dempster or C Gardner aren't going to win you premierships but they add depth and put pressure on others to lift their game or loose their spot. I think our run of injuries has led to a little bit of complacency amongst some of our lesser players as there was no one to challenge/replace them with. I think with RL accountability is paramount, hence players like C.Jones, who try their guts out ,will get the nod over others who think that just putting on the jumper is enough. With the de-listings ,the message seems pretty clear.

[Barney2]

Ah, Dempster is a premiership player. So, too Schneider and King. 3 to add. C Gardiner waste.
Anyway, just for the hell of it, here is my 08 side

Baker Max S Fisher
Gilbert Goose Gram
Banger Lenny Goddard
Schneider Roo Montagna
Milne Kosy Gardiner(if injury fee)

Followers: King Del Ball

Interchange: Fiora, X Clarke, L Fisher, Dempster
Emergencies: R Clarke, Armitage, Blake

[fonz_#15]

Ah, Dempster is a premiership player. So, too Schneider and King. 3 to add. C Gardiner waste.
Anyway, just for the hell of it, here is my 08 side

Baker Max S Fisher
Gilbert Goose Gram
Banger Lenny Goddard
Schneider Roo Montagna
Milne Kosy Gardiner(if injury fee)

Followers: King Del Ball

Interchange: Fiora, X Clarke, L Fisher, Dempster
Emergencies: R Clarke, Armitage, Blake

raph behind dempster, so to blake?

who is del?

why woud harvey play on a wing?

so too goddard who has had a year off football?

and if bakes is playing we may get ourselves in a pickle since he is suspended.

gardiner as a FP? what has he done to warrant a walk up start in 08?


glad your not ross lyon

[bobmurray]

Ah, Dempster is a premiership player. So, too Schneider and King. 3 to add. C Gardiner waste.
Anyway, just for the hell of it, here is my 08 side

Baker Max S Fisher
Gilbert Goose Gram
Banger Lenny Goddard
Schneider Roo Montagna
Milne Kosy Gardiner(if injury fee)

Followers: King Del Ball

Interchange: Fiora, X Clarke, L Fisher, Dempster
Emergencies: R Clarke, Armitage, Blake

Gardiner was absolutely hopeless playing as a key forward for West Coast when they lost to Sydney in the 2005 Grand Final......

He'd probably be as good as Rix in the Forward line.......

This team will make the 8,i hope it's not the bottom 8....

[Oh When the Saints]

Cheers OWTS, I think you listed 17 so plus King, Schnieder & Dempster and Fiora (as St Fid said), throw in Raph with pressure from Allen, Armo, Geary and Pick 9 we may as well contact the makers of memorabillia, the 2008 Cup is ours!

Not to bad as long as we do not anger the Injury Gods again, surely we've layed enough sacrifices before them?

I had BJ listed twice, so there were 16 there.

Fiora is good enough at his best to be on that list, I agree.

It was after Gehrig had retired, and they knew Sammy was gone IMO.


Interesting ... so by most people's judgement, we have 20 players good enough for a premiership team.

Ergo, our success in 2008 depends on 3-4 players developing enough to make that list.

[yipper]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but this has been mos complete turn-over of a list at StKilda ever?? Not even during the dark days of the 80"s did we ever turn over a list like this!!?? The coach has his mind set on a structure / team list to take us a forward. And by golly he is doing what he needs to do.