Time for one Captain in 08 and beyond.
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- saint patrick
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Time for one Captain in 08 and beyond.
Apologies if this has been covered previously but I think its now time to revert to a single captain and vice captian this year..
The rotation and multiple captaincy has served its purpose as a fast track leadership development exercise that will benefit the side in the next few years but the more traditional leadership structure is an important statement that this team is no longer in a building of developmental stage..
It's in the delivery stage
A side can still have natural leaders but nothing beats a single person being chosen on merit to lead the side and they should retain the title over years possibly until its considered that someone more appropriate comes along.
This would also re elevate the title of Captain of the St.Kilda Football Club to where it should be as a special, hard earnt honour.
My choice out of a very strong field in 08 would be for Lenny Hayes to lead the club with Nick Riewoldt as vice captain.
Anyone have a problem with that?
The rotation and multiple captaincy has served its purpose as a fast track leadership development exercise that will benefit the side in the next few years but the more traditional leadership structure is an important statement that this team is no longer in a building of developmental stage..
It's in the delivery stage
A side can still have natural leaders but nothing beats a single person being chosen on merit to lead the side and they should retain the title over years possibly until its considered that someone more appropriate comes along.
This would also re elevate the title of Captain of the St.Kilda Football Club to where it should be as a special, hard earnt honour.
My choice out of a very strong field in 08 would be for Lenny Hayes to lead the club with Nick Riewoldt as vice captain.
Anyone have a problem with that?
Never take a backward step even to gain momentum.....
'It's OK to have the capabilities and abilities, but you've got to get it done." Terry Daniher 05
"We have beauty in our captain and we have a true leader in our coach. Our time will come"
Thinline.Post 09 Grand final.
'It's OK to have the capabilities and abilities, but you've got to get it done." Terry Daniher 05
"We have beauty in our captain and we have a true leader in our coach. Our time will come"
Thinline.Post 09 Grand final.
- saint patrick
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You may be right... but I still think a change of tack is important for the reasons stated...think that 07 was very much a year of settling in for Lyon and seeing who was capable of what including the leadership area...will be interesting to see which way he goes from here.saintm wrote:Ross enjoyed success at Sydney with more than one Captain, and I think he made his intentions clear last year in appointing Lenny, Nick and Luke as co-captains.
FWIW, I prefer one leader but I think if Ross was going to go down the sole-captain track it would have happened with last year's appointments.
Never take a backward step even to gain momentum.....
'It's OK to have the capabilities and abilities, but you've got to get it done." Terry Daniher 05
"We have beauty in our captain and we have a true leader in our coach. Our time will come"
Thinline.Post 09 Grand final.
'It's OK to have the capabilities and abilities, but you've got to get it done." Terry Daniher 05
"We have beauty in our captain and we have a true leader in our coach. Our time will come"
Thinline.Post 09 Grand final.
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- skeptic
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- Riewoldting
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Question 1: Contemporary, in vogue "multiple captains", or traditional single captain?
Answer: Single captain.
Question 2: Captain on rotational basis, or captain until resignation/retirement?
Answer: Captain until resignation/retirement.
Question 3: Best/marquee player, or guts-and-determination marshall of the troops?
Answer: Guts-and-determination marshall of the troops.
Question 4: Player that best fits these criteria now, or player that will best fit these criteria in the future?
Answer: Player that best fits these criteria now.
Answer to Q1 + answer to Q2 + answer to Q3 + answer to Q4 = Lenny Hayes.
Answer: Single captain.
Question 2: Captain on rotational basis, or captain until resignation/retirement?
Answer: Captain until resignation/retirement.
Question 3: Best/marquee player, or guts-and-determination marshall of the troops?
Answer: Guts-and-determination marshall of the troops.
Question 4: Player that best fits these criteria now, or player that will best fit these criteria in the future?
Answer: Player that best fits these criteria now.
Answer to Q1 + answer to Q2 + answer to Q3 + answer to Q4 = Lenny Hayes.
"To be or not to be" - William Shakespeare
"To be is to do" - Immanuel Kant
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra
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When I do the sums according to your formula I come up with Lenny ,Roo and Harvs.Ball is a future captain in my opinion but needs to focus 100% on getting his body right.Lenny gets the nod from Riewoldt.Harves is the soul of the club anyway.Riewoldting wrote:Question 1: Contemporary, in vogue "multiple captains", or traditional single captain?
Answer: Single captain.
Question 2: Captain on rotational basis, or captain until resignation/retirement?
Answer: Captain until resignation/retirement.
Question 3: Best/marquee player, or guts-and-determination marshall of the troops?
Answer: Guts-and-determination marshall of the troops.
Question 4: Player that best fits these criteria now, or player that will best fit these criteria in the future?
Answer: Player that best fits these criteria now.
Answer to Q1 + answer to Q2 + answer to Q3 + answer to Q4 = Lenny Hayes.
There are freaks and freaks and Baldock was both of those.
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- Riewoldting
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- Spinner
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Riewoldting wrote:Question 1: Contemporary, in vogue "multiple captains", or traditional single captain?
Answer: Single captain.
Question 2: Captain on rotational basis, or captain until resignation/retirement?
Answer: Captain until resignation/retirement.
Question 3: Best/marquee player, or guts-and-determination marshall of the troops?
Answer: Guts-and-determination marshall of the troops.
Question 4: Player that best fits these criteria now, or player that will best fit these criteria in the future?
Answer: Player that best fits these criteria now.
Answer to Q1 + answer to Q2 + answer to Q3 + answer to Q4 = Lenny Hayes.
Awesome Post.
The answer to your Q3. Riewoldting, could quite easily be Roo. People don't seem to notice the guts and determination that Roo shows, just as much as Lenny. I think Roo suffers abit fom everyone thinking he's the marquee player, therefore it'd look like a popularity contest for him to gain captaincy. Sure he is our most marketed player, but don't forget how bloody hard he trains and plays.
- Riewoldting
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I disagree. Anyone who has seen a St Kilda game will know what a super athlete Riewoldt is, and how hard he runs to create a target and take marks free from interference.Kiedis wrote:The answer to your Q3. Riewoldting, could quite easily be Roo. People don't seem to notice the guts and determination that Roo shows, just as much as Lenny. I think Roo suffers abit fom everyone thinking he's the marquee player, therefore it'd look like a popularity contest for him to gain captaincy. Sure he is our most marketed player, but don't forget how bloody hard he trains and plays.
The guts and determination I am talking about is the ability to dig deep and get the best out of oneself, whether the team is 10 goals up or 10 goals behind. While there is no doubt Riewoldt works harder than any other Saint (including Harvey), he is a natural athlete with natural talent. Hayes is more of a no-frills toiler - but hard as nails and bleeds red, white and black.
He is more of a natural leader than Riewoldt because he can better relate to the players ranked 15-22 in our best 22 - the players that are going to be the difference between us finishing 9th and winning a flag.
These are the players that Hayes can inspire by word and deed. He is a far more physical player than Riewoldt and can lift those around him, especially in the centre where the game is won and lost, with bumps, tackles, shepherds and sheer physical pressure.
I think Hayes is more of a barometer of where we are at as a team. Riewoldt plays well whether we are winning or losing, so his good deeds don't seem to have an effect on the team overall.
When Hayes is in form we tend to win, and when he went down in early 2006 we lost our way a bit.
Riewoldt is a freak, Hayes is a mere mortal.
Edit: plus Hayes is a yapper and antagonistic. That's your tiebreaker factor right there.
"To be or not to be" - William Shakespeare
"To be is to do" - Immanuel Kant
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra
done and dusted..Riewoldting wrote:Question 1: Contemporary, in vogue "multiple captains", or traditional single captain?
Answer: Single captain.
Question 2: Captain on rotational basis, or captain until resignation/retirement?
Answer: Captain until resignation/retirement.
Question 3: Best/marquee player, or guts-and-determination marshall of the troops?
Answer: Guts-and-determination marshall of the troops.
Question 4: Player that best fits these criteria now, or player that will best fit these criteria in the future?
Answer: Player that best fits these criteria now.
Answer to Q1 + answer to Q2 + answer to Q3 + answer to Q4 = Lenny Hayes.
this post sais it all.
- borderbarry
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- Spinner
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borderbarry wrote:I'll throw a spanner in the works!
When Roo was captain, and was out injured for 4 games, and Kosi took over the Captaincy for four games and got 11 Brownlow votes, for mine he is the man.
Ah Yes....I whole Heartedly agree Koschitzke is the too captaining material of St Kilda....
....But until he can get out onto the park and get 150 games into him, he wont be.
- evertonfc
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Certainly wasn't intentional. Apologies if it seemed that way.Spinner wrote:That is really patronising to Lenny.....Although I dont think it was intentional.evertonfc wrote:Riewoldt has sole captaincy stamped all over him. He thrives on responsibility.
Lenny just needs to work on another pre-season under his belt and doing all he can to get bak to his best.
I just want to see Lenny focus on getting his body 100% and not worry about leading the team. Like Harvey, he can be a leader without the need for the tag. Riewoldt just seems to me to be a more natural leader, whereas Hayes always seemed a touch reluctant for mine.
The night we played West Coast screamed to me how badly we need to get Hayes right, and how strong a leader Riewoldt is.
I think Roo's leadership qualities are vastly underrated by this forum...
He's mature, responsible, dependable, excellent in the public domain, enjoys the public side of the role and sets a great example with his winning ethos and undying work ethic. He'll also grow into the role in a Carey-like way, I think.
My two cents, anyway.
Clueless and mediocre petty tyrant.
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A captain MUST be reliable.
Whilst Roo's endeavour will never be questioned, in his position it is his goal-kicking especially during crucial moments of games that lets him down. It can easily the difference between winning and losing. And it's not just late in games, missing a goal during any stage whether it be to get back to within two goals or stretch a margin out to four, a missed chance always has the potential to change a game.
At times when he's not kicking those "must-kick" goals I can't help but feel he's teetering on the brink of a nervous meltdown on the field. His confidence just disappears and you can almost see demons on his shoulders as he's lining up for his next shot.
He definitely suffers from nerves in front of the sticks and it's not something that's easily fixed either. You can take 200 shots a day in training but you will never be able to simulate the pressure a player is under during a game.
Whilst Roo's endeavour will never be questioned, in his position it is his goal-kicking especially during crucial moments of games that lets him down. It can easily the difference between winning and losing. And it's not just late in games, missing a goal during any stage whether it be to get back to within two goals or stretch a margin out to four, a missed chance always has the potential to change a game.
At times when he's not kicking those "must-kick" goals I can't help but feel he's teetering on the brink of a nervous meltdown on the field. His confidence just disappears and you can almost see demons on his shoulders as he's lining up for his next shot.
He definitely suffers from nerves in front of the sticks and it's not something that's easily fixed either. You can take 200 shots a day in training but you will never be able to simulate the pressure a player is under during a game.
I remember what Grant (peace be upon him) used to do during training, he used to try to create a cauldron during goal-kicking practice where a group of players would stand around someone having a shot at goal shouting all kinds of things in an attempt to put the player off, which would make it difficult.
But nothing is more off-putting than knowing that there is a game on the line where, if the result doesn't go your way, jobs could be lost and you know that your next kick will have a massive bearing on the outcome.
That's real pressure and you can never recreate that.
But nothing is more off-putting than knowing that there is a game on the line where, if the result doesn't go your way, jobs could be lost and you know that your next kick will have a massive bearing on the outcome.
That's real pressure and you can never recreate that.