Baker in the forward line?

bigcarl · Post: # 480331Post **bigcarl** » Sun 21 Oct 2007 11:23pm

round 1 team with a forward line to kick us a winning score (hence no baker):

b: l. fisher, max, x. clarke
hb: r. clarke, goose, s. fisher
c: gram, hayes, gilbert
hf: goddard, riewoldt, dal santo
f: milne, kosi, harvey
foll: gardiner, ball, montagna

inter: king, schneider, blake, fiora

i like gram and gilbert on the wings. both have a bit of dash and gram in particular can really roost it goalwards. we need more of our guys to back themselves to kick goals ... not just riewoldt.

dal and bj playing forward would be capable of kicking at least a couple each every week ... very important in a team that struggled to kick winning scores all of last season.

imo the one area, apart from fitness and confidence, in which we need vast improvement in 2008

the forward line, when we actually had one, let us down badly last season

rodgerfox · Post: # 480421Post **rodgerfox** » Mon 22 Oct 2007 11:25am

I've raised this before.

Baker is the ideal 'forward defender'.

GT played him in this role against Hawthorn a couple of years ago at the G.
He effectively tagged Joel Smith, who at the time was Hawthorn's key play maker from defence.
Bakes snagged 1 himself, and took Smith completely out of the game. It was a brilliant move, and a role that Baker seemed to play quite naturally.

The problem is, that you're taking a B&F midfielder out of the guts, and right now I'm not sure we can afford that.

I think if the matchups are there, then Bakes should definately spend time in the forward 50.

SENsei · Post: # 480437Post **SENsei** » Mon 22 Oct 2007 12:00pm

My opinion of Bakes' value to the team dropped this season. He had a poor season in my view.

Whilst he still remains in our best 22, his lack of speed and skill could hurt in the future.

If we are looking to him to kick goals and in multiple efforts, we are in a bit of strife. He is a defensive tagger at best.

No fan of C Jones either, but I think RL has him ear marked for the defensive forward role.

I'd personally give the kid Armitage a go at this role in the preseason and see what happens.

rodgerfox · Post: # 480441Post **rodgerfox** » Mon 22 Oct 2007 12:08pm

SENsaintsational wrote:
Whilst he still remains in our best 22, his lack of speed and skill could hurt in the future.

Interesting perception.

Bakes' pace is one thing that is special about him. He is quick off the mark, and has sustained speed too.
Seeing him keep up with Aaron Davey in several sprints against the Dees in the 06 final was testement to his speed.

As for his skill, I believe he is very skilful - on both sides too. By hand and by foot.

Sure he looks awkward but he rarely, rarely misses targets. His foot skills are very underrated.

I think Bakes gets labelled as a 'typical skilless tagger' due to the media after Judd broke his nose. It just couldn't be that the poster boy had done something wrong - so they looked for a villian. It was Bakes and his kind.

At the time of that incident, Bakes was beating opponents every week. Not just keeping them quiet, but getting the ball himself, and kicking goals. He was actually breaking the mould of the traditional tagger.

I will agree with you that this year he was average. He was played a genuine tagger this year, which I don't really like.

SENsei · Post: # 480455Post **SENsei** » Mon 22 Oct 2007 12:55pm

I guess my perception is that he is currently valuable, but as he gets older and slower, his value will diminish.

Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Hope he sticks it up me, but I see this year as one of crossroads for Bakes.

Armoooo · Post: # 480581Post **Armoooo** » Mon 22 Oct 2007 5:39pm

karnak wrote:we just picked up schneider,

if bakes plays up forward then milne would be playing reserves.

Hasn't everyone been saying how we will have Schneider in the midfield rotations? I reckon it could work having one of Xavier, Schneider, Milne and Baker in the midfield, two in the forward line and one on the bench at any given time.

Quixote · Post: # 480877Post **Quixote** » Tue 23 Oct 2007 2:16am

rodgerfox wrote:I've raised this before.

Who are you man, the f****** Mahatma?

Every post of yours begins with a pat on the back.

Does your health insurance bill suffer from this excessive behaviour?

Quixote · Post: # 480878Post **Quixote** » Tue 23 Oct 2007 2:17am

SENsaintsational wrote:
Whilst he still remains in our best 22, his lack of speed and skill could hurt in the future.

Very wrong

Quixote · Post: # 480879Post **Quixote** » Tue 23 Oct 2007 2:18am

rodgerfox wrote:
SENsaintsational wrote:
Whilst he still remains in our best 22, his lack of speed and skill could hurt in the future.

Interesting perception.

Bakes' pace is one thing that is special about him. He is quick off the mark, and has sustained speed too.
Seeing him keep up with Aaron Davey in several sprints against the Dees in the 06 final was testement to his speed.

As for his skill, I believe he is very skilful - on both sides too. By hand and by foot.

Sure he looks awkward but he rarely, rarely misses targets. His foot skills are very underrated.

I think Bakes gets labelled as a 'typical skilless tagger' due to the media after Judd broke his nose. It just couldn't be that the poster boy had done something wrong - so they looked for a villian. It was Bakes and his kind.

At the time of that incident, Bakes was beating opponents every week. Not just keeping them quiet, but getting the ball himself, and kicking goals. He was actually breaking the mould of the traditional tagger.

I will agree with you that this year he was average. He was played a genuine tagger this year, which I don't really like.

Good recovery

Quixote · Post: # 480880Post **Quixote** » Tue 23 Oct 2007 2:20am

SENsaintsational wrote:
Hope he sticks it up me, but I see this year as one of crossroads for Bakes.

Definately.

He is shine or fade next year

Shine and we have a very handy weapon

Albeit, in April...

Squizzy1970 · Tue 23 Oct 2007 10:51am

If you are playing Baker forward, you are bascially guaranteeing Leigh Fisher a game every week? We've lost Attard, and need Baker in midfield or back. X was playing the defensive forward role, which I thought he was doing fine.

Animal Enclosure · Tue 23 Oct 2007 11:38am

One thing that is for sure is that we have a number of options to swing forward & assist Yapper in the small forward/crumber gig.

Schneider/Bally/Dal/Joey/Banger with Bakes playing a defensive role gives us a nice rotation. Hopefully the emergence of Grammy & Armo as legitimate midfielders will allow Bally, Dal & Joey more time to rest forward and kick some much needed 'midfield' goals.

I wouldn't mind seeing Grammy spend a bit of time forward as well. We've gotta start putting him in positions where he can really hurt the opposition on the scoreboard.

Squizzy1970 · Tue 23 Oct 2007 11:49am

Animal Enclosure wrote:One thing that is for sure is that we have a number of options to swing forward & assist Yapper in the small forward/crumber gig.

Schneider/Bally/Dal/Joey/Banger with Bakes playing a defensive role gives us a nice rotation. Hopefully the emergence of Grammy & Armo as legitimate midfielders will allow Bally, Dal & Joey more time to rest forward and kick some much needed 'midfield' goals.

I wouldn't mind seeing Grammy spend a bit of time forward as well. We've gotta start putting him in positions where he can really hurt the opposition on the scoreboard.

I think Gram off half back is still the right position. He was hurting the opposition until he started getting tagged by the forward.

bigcarl · Post: # 480963Post **bigcarl** » Tue 23 Oct 2007 12:01pm

Squizzy1970 wrote: X was playing the defensive forward role, which I thought he was doing fine.

doesn't kick enough goals and is better use off half back imo

Animal Enclosure · Tue 23 Oct 2007 12:04pm

A good reason in itself to get him up the ground.

If you can remember the game v WC in 06 (when Goose broke his leg) Grammy played a far bit in the middle & was clearly our best player. He was giving a fully fit Judd a run for his money when he rolled an ankle, went off and WC kicked away. When Grammy returned he made an instant impact & I remember thinking that he could be our best midfielder based on what he had shown in that game.

He is the most athletically talented player on our list but also has a reasonable football brain. I know that he was not 100% fit for most of the year but he disappointed me greatly this season.

I want to see him take the next step and be the player that opposition midfielders fear the most. I have no doubt that he has the ability to be our jet in the midfield. If Grammy can do this then our midfield will instantly be in the top echelon in the comp. Bally & Lendog are the grunt, Joey & Grammy are the turbo, Dally & Banger the silk & a number of others filling the gaps.

When you weigh up the debate of Grammy playing in the mids or in defence (& remember that most clubs try to get him playing very deep now) ask yourself the question

'would you be happier to see Chris Judd lining up against the Saints in the centre square or on a half back flank?'

Put your gun players where they count most I say... not sure Ross Lyon has that same belief though.

Squizzy1970 · Tue 23 Oct 2007 3:44pm

Animal Enclosure wrote:A good reason in itself to get him up the ground.

If you can remember the game v WC in 06 (when Goose broke his leg) Grammy played a far bit in the middle & was clearly our best player. He was giving a fully fit Judd a run for his money when he rolled an ankle, went off and WC kicked away. When Grammy returned he made an instant impact & I remember thinking that he could be our best midfielder based on what he had shown in that game.

He is the most athletically talented player on our list but also has a reasonable football brain. I know that he was not 100% fit for most of the year but he disappointed me greatly this season.

I want to see him take the next step and be the player that opposition midfielders fear the most. I have no doubt that he has the ability to be our jet in the midfield. If Grammy can do this then our midfield will instantly be in the top echelon in the comp. Bally & Lendog are the grunt, Joey & Grammy are the turbo, Dally & Banger the silk & a number of others filling the gaps.

When you weigh up the debate of Grammy playing in the mids or in defence (& remember that most clubs try to get him playing very deep now) ask yourself the question

'would you be happier to see Chris Judd lining up against the Saints in the centre square or on a half back flank?'

Put your gun players where they count most I say... not sure Ross Lyon has that same belief though.

I don't think Judd's got a defensive side, and is crap overhead (not that it matters for him). Gram has played good roles on dangerous forwards like Scott Lucas. He's missed a bit of footy in his career, and the half back role has been a perfect learning ground. Each team has a rebounding defender (or 2), and I'm not sure (aside from S Fisher who I'd like to see forward) who would fill Gram's current role.