First Ruck - Michael Gardiner or Steven King?

[Statsman]

Let's assume both Gardiner and King are 100% fit for round one next season. Who starts the year as our number one ruckman?

I'd have to go with King simply for the fact that Gardiner has only played 15 games in the last 4 seasons - none in 2007, 3 in 2006, 9 in 2005 and 3 in 2004. Worse still, those 9 games in 2005 were played as a permanent key forward. Gardiner has only played 6 AFL games in the ruck in the last 4 years and hasn't been a legitimate AFL ruckman since 2003! I just can't see how Gardiner can come back and be competitive at AFL level without any exposed form. Even if he's 100% fit and gets a full pre-season under his belt, he's still going to need considerable time in the VFL just to learn how to play again in match conditions.

However if Gardiner does recover from his foot injury, get a full pre-season and eventually regain his form he'll be in a real asset. Back in 2003, the last time he played a prolonged period as an AFL ruckman, he averaged 26 hitouts, 6 marks and 13 disposals. Wouldn't we all love a ruckman that can produce numbers like that?

A ruck division of Gardiner and King at full strength lets us unleash Kosi at full forward to become the match winner we know he can be.

[Barney2]

Doubt Gardiner will play much anyway, as I have heard he not completey over injury. King number 1 as fas as im concerned. Proved on GF that he can match it with the best when needed.
PS is Rix still on list as wsell as Brooks? All this inuendo.

[super dooper]

If they were both 100% fit its a very very good problem to have, but unfortunately reality might be far from that.

Id be happy with 15-20 games from each of them next season, hopefully more.

But saying that i would prefer King starting as no.1 based on the fact he has actually played in last couple seasons

[Enrico_Misso]

It's an interesting question.

Personally I think it would be just terrific to have this dilemna of them both being fit.
That would be bad news for Rix as they clearly both have more ability than him. But it is unlikely that King/Gardiner would both be fit for the entire season.

I'm more worried that both of them will fall short and we will have to flog Rix and divert Kosi from full forward where I reckon he should play.

But if one of them comes up, I would imagine we would use Rix for 20 minutes each quarter to provide a neutral ruck option.
Then bring King or Gardiner on for a 10 minute "power play".

[mad saint guy]

Would be decided from the pre season games. Gardiner might not be up to AFL level anymore, or he could be playing similar footy to 2003 now that he's got his body right. King will just be an average battler.

[ben_fff]

If King can pla the way he did in the GF then we'll do well, it'll be good having a ruckman who can actually compete with guys like Cox, Lade, Brogan and so on.

[True Blue Sainter]

The key point is obviously for Gardiner to obtain match conditioning as well as his fitness and well-being. He is clearly the more talented of the pair. So Gards for me - but more realistically we can expect Kingy to be first ruck if he stays on the park until Gards recaptures his 2003 form!

[SaintBot]

King would be #1.
Gardiner is able to rest down forward and pinch up in the ruck when needed.

[nicko016]

I'd say King purely because Gardiner is more capable forward. If Gardiner got back to his best or near his best he'd be a better ruckmen than King but I'd still probably play Gardiner as #2 ruck. This is because he could spend a fair amount of time forward and possibly ruck inside the F50 allowing King to sit a kick behind play. However, you would only do this if King's form was pretty good. But chances are there be quite a few times where they will both get the opportunity to be #1 as there will be most likel be times when only one is playingor when one is down on form or fitness.

[iceman]

If both were 100% fit, and both were at pretty decent form going into round 1. (not saying they will be yadi yada) then I would have Gardiner starting in the middle. Most crash and bash high intensity type ruckman, once the game settles down bring King on to control the game through half back and the middle of the ground as a link man, he is also very good at around the ground stoppages where man oin man comes into play.

[saintsrule]

i would have to say M. Gaardiner

[Dan Warna]

we'll play whoever isn't in hospital that week

[spert]

If Gards plays in 2008 I will be very surprised -I think his AFL days may be over as anyone with serious foot injuries like that, just loses some of the power and strength in the foot - Ok for jogging, but in a high physical stress game like AFL, I would think that Gards would have two or three games then would have to rest the foot for another three. I hope I'm proven wrong with him.

[Dan Warna]

if what you say is true spert then we should have cut him instead of paying his medical insurance in 08.

Carlton cut big red. Geelong cut King.

IMO we owed Hamill something, and now that time has come, he is gone.

we dont owe gardiner anything, if he isn't going to contribute in 08, then make the hard call now.

I hope to heck I'm wrong but this reminds me of picking up the AFL who's who of finished players in the 80s and early 90s.

you used to be a champion? you used to have a bit of talent? no future at your current club? come down and cash in on st kilda's insurance policy...

[joffaboy]

if what you say is true spert then we should have cut him instead of paying his medical insurance in 08.

Carlton cut big red. Geelong cut King.

IMO we owed Hamill something, and now that time has come, he is gone.

we dont owe gardiner anything, if he isn't going to contribute in 08, then make the hard call now.

I hope to heck I'm wrong but this reminds me of picking up the AFL who's who of finished players in the 80s and early 90s.

you used to be a champion? you used to have a bit of talent? no future at your current club? come down and cash in on st kilda's insurance policy...

what crap.

Gardiner was not injured when he was originally picked up by the Saints. Had his other foot operated on years ago for the same thing and it is OK.

Fair Dinkum you have been so negative since we traded so well.

Whats wrong Dan. Worried that Lyon may come good and make your stupid remarks about him this season look even sillier?

WTF did Gardiner cost us? SFA thats what. But hey dont let facts get in the way of your morose outlook

[Oh When the Saints]

People forget that in 2006, Gardiner played 15 games in the WAFL with Claremont. If you add on a few games with the Eagles, he was able to play basically every match for the year.

So his body can still physically stand football.

[carn_sainter]

the question is moot

at the moment, king is in better form for sure

but there is a pre-season for that to change, let alone fitness

i have no personal preference...whoever is better will do

[apple_corr39]

we'll play whoever isn't in hospital that week

[Unforgiven]

If both are 100% fit that Id have Gardi as no.1.

[saintspremiers]

People forget that in 2006, Gardiner played 15 games in the WAFL with Claremont. If you add on a few games with the Eagles, he was able to play basically every match for the year.

So his body can still physically stand football.

Good point....and he would've most likely played nearly every game for WCE had he not been involved in that car smash.

[battye]

What about Rix!?!?

[Armoooo]

What about Rix!?!?

Quite simple, he can't get ahead of our superstar in the ruck Mr Jason Blake

[bobmurray]

All i know is in the Grand Final that Sydney won,Gardiner was the Eagles key forward and he was useless...

I'm hoping he can play in the ruck at some point this season,i can just see it,Gardiner and King,injured and watching the game from the stands for weeks on end as Rix and Blake struggle to win a contest......

[mad saint guy]

All i know is in the Grand Final that Sydney won,Gardiner was the Eagles key forward and he was useless...

He was played at full forward for all of his 12 games in 2005 and kicked just 16 goals (4 of which were against Nck Stone). If he couldn't kick goals with Judd, Cousins and Kerr kicking it to him he won't kick goals at St Kilda. Ruck or nothing for Gards.

[evertonfc]

A figthing fit Gardiner is one of the league's best ruckmen. He is fearsome, intimidating, hard-working and clever.

Whilst he's only been with us for 12 months, I'm at the Hamill stage with Gardi - whatever we get from him is a bonus.

I hope we get him right but I'm struggling to see it happening. King, however, seems to have his body right for now.

If can play 18+ games, we'll be hugely improved by his influence. I'm expecting he will play that many games next year, and I'm very excited by that prospect. Not because I think he will dominate, but because I think he'll be genuinely competitive and will give us a much better chance of getting on top at the stoppages.

I hope, so very much, that Gardiner gets himself right, because then we'll have two quality ruckmen - and suddenly a deficiency becomes a strength.