steven king

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:10pm

true but mayb play him a couple of times in the nab cup just to get a taste of what hes like. he may bulk up over the pre season.

i have read alot of critism against ross lyon for pursuing m clarke and now king. yes clarke wasnt a stand out success last yr but that was not his purpose. not masny people are aware that the main purpose clarke was signed at the saints was to be a tap ruckman COACH for our younger ruckmen. he was never meant to play every game. lyon knows what he is doing and we have to trust him with it. he is surely planning something with brooks because he would have been traded already if he wasnt. hopefully we wil see results of it in 08.

Saint Mik · Post: # 473134Post **Saint Mik** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:25pm

Brooks is untradable thats why he is still with us

King might be ok at the club because of expeience along with Gardy even if they dont come up trumps for the whole season we can learn alot from the both of them and get some games into others with there coaching but i would want King on the same contract as Gardy.

What do they expect out of Gardy this year, will he be expected to go into the 08 season with a full pre season under him or is he still going to be out for some time into the start of the season?

How hungry would King be at another club is also a concern IMO because he now has a flag to his name and might just go through the motions for the money if he does get the flick from Geelong just a thought not saying this will happen but it could, sort of like Dermie days at the Pies a complete waste of time who nobody even remembers about anymore Dougie at the Lions also comes to mind and lets not forget Clarke at the Saints

Unforgiven · Post: # 473156Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:41pm

Saint Mik wrote:King might be ok at the club because of expeience along with Gardy even if they dont come up trumps for the whole season we can learn alot from the both of them and get some games into others with there coaching but i would want King on the same contract as Gardy.
:

That's pointless though. Why Draft a has been, with that attitude of, ''well if we they don't play, they can a least teach the kids''. While it's nice and probably true, it's just crap. We can hire assistant coaches and ruck coaches to do this, not trade picks for old ruckman.

Don't want King. Even if he does give us a good 3 years, meh. Over the hill, body hasn't been up to it in recent years, rather draft a kid or trade for a better,younger ruckman.

Saint Mik · Post: # 473161Post **Saint Mik** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:48pm

What would a assistant coach be on compared to Gardy ?

I would think King would be a better option than an extra assistant coach if the money is around the same amount not to sure about the difference in the wages though?

Who is your better younger ruckman we are going to trade for and what is the trade going to be

Its easy to say this but actually making it happen is the problem that is why if king is there then mabey we should grab him if it works out in our favour.

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:50pm

the two best ruckman who we should really push for are warnock from freo or mark jamar from melbourne. if not then brooks is going to have to play alot of footy next year.

Saint Mik · Post: # 473165Post **Saint Mik** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 4:59pm

Brooks was supposed to play alot every year

Next year might be the year, hang on didnt i say that to myself last year and the year before that

He is not up to it why are we so blind with our own players thats right ruckmen take a bit longer to develope

We will be in ALOT of trouble if we are relying on Brooks going on the past games he has played for us, count em how many games in how many years

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:00pm

fine so forget brooks and go for warnock or jamar. rucks are necessities and if we all dont want king then we need a suitable alternative.

Saint Mik · Post: # 473170Post **Saint Mik** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:11pm

Mad saint guy pretty much sums it up in another thread.

Give me your trade options not just saying we should get this and that actually put something on the table that will work and get the deal done its not going to happen unless we get King for stuff all say a 3rd or 4th rounder if not then nothing will be done.

Unforgiven · Post: # 473172Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:16pm

Saint Mik wrote:What would a assistant coach be on compared to Gardy ?

I would think King would be a better option than an extra assistant coach if the money is around the same amount not to sure about the difference in the wages though?

Who is your better younger ruckman we are going to trade for and what is the trade going to be

Its easy to say this but actually making it happen is the problem that is why if king is there then mabey we should grab him if it works out in our favour.

Gardi hasn't played the game in 3 odd years or what ever it is anyways. Not just simply a matter of wages, it's the fact of giving up a draft pick, a years development into a kid, a spot on the list.

Rather go for someone younger with a great deal of upside. Wood, Warknock(spelling?),Seaby etc,. apparntly we attempted to get Blake (who geelong obviously rate a lot and a few others). I'd even rather someone mid age around the 25 mark. Hille, Charman(around abouts there I think, could be mistaken).

We have taken a punt on Gardi, I don't think there is room for another one in King on the list. Or at least see Gardiner through before we start trading away more draft picks for used players.

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:17pm

say king has three more years. if we sign him one yr at a time for three years we have a huge chance of being successfull and by the time he retires a ruckman will be developed enough to step in.

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:19pm

Saint Corin wrote:
Saint Mik wrote:What would a assistant coach be on compared to Gardy ?

I would think King would be a better option than an extra assistant coach if the money is around the same amount not to sure about the difference in the wages though?

Who is your better younger ruckman we are going to trade for and what is the trade going to be

Its easy to say this but actually making it happen is the problem that is why if king is there then mabey we should grab him if it works out in our favour.
Gardi hasn't played the game in 3 odd years or what ever it is anyways. Not just simply a matter of wages, it's the fact of giving up a draft pick, a years development into a kid, a spot on the list.

Rather go for someone younger with a great deal of upside. Wood, Warknock(spelling?),Seaby etc,. apparntly we attempted to get Blake (who geelong obviously rate a lot and a few others). I'd even rather someone mid age around the 25 mark. Hille, Charman(around abouts there I think, could be mistaken).

We have taken a punt on Gardi, I don't think there is room for another one in King on the list. Or at least see Gardiner through before we start trading away more draft picks for used players.

we cant just get hille or charman. they are not up for trade and we need to get the best avaiable which is king.

Saint Mik · Post: # 473182Post **Saint Mik** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 5:24pm

Saint corin we cant get these players you have mentioned because the trade would not be in our favour we dont have a seconed round pick for them if it goes to sydney and you wont get any of them for a 3rd round and there is no way you would give up your first round so how do we do it.

To get something you are going to have to give something and i cant see it happening but feel free to mention a trade to get it done

Unforgiven · Post: # 473306Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:05pm

Saint Mik wrote:Saint corin we cant get these players you have mentioned because the trade would not be in our favour we dont have a seconed round pick for them if it goes to sydney and you wont get any of them for a 3rd round and there is no way you would give up your first round so how do we do it.

No we do have a 2nd round pick for them, we still have it as far as im concerned. Sydney trades have come to nothing thus far, pick 2 is still ours to use.

I would bundle it up with a semi good player. I think the problem is as you highlight ''trade would not be in our favour''. Well everyone wants to be on the good end of the stick and dog other clubs, which is fair enough(eveyrone wants best for their club) but realistic? no. Names like Gwilt, Brooks, Ferguson, and a late 3rd round pick always talked up in our bid to get a player from a club... it's just crap really, highly unlikely to ever happen.

I understand the point you want me to give my 2 cents in what we would trade. Though it's potinless, I don't know what players are untouchables or who would or wouldn't want to be traded.

You gotta trade quality for quality and under certain circumstances you can get onto the good(or bad) end of a trade. Like us loosing Heath Black for Fiora, nothing we could do but get at least something, we lost out there.

We effectivly got Dal Santo for Hall, WCE got Kerr for Gherig, Geelong got Ottens for Maloney(good player before OP).

I'll openly admit I thought Gardiner was the answer, and us apparantly chasing Blake and King highlights the doubts on Gardiner. Going by King's track record I don't see it's worth.

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:10pm

Sydney trades have come to nothing thus far, pick 2 is still ours to use.

the trades with sydney have not come to nothing it just hasn't become official. for all we know a deal coud have been made anytime today we just havent heard about it yet. i would safely say that we have secured adam schnider and possibly dempster for pick 26. and chris johnson for our third round pick. but dont say they have come to nothing because for all we know they coud be oiffical tomrorow morning.

Unforgiven · Post: # 473312Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:16pm

forever a saint wrote:
Sydney trades have come to nothing thus far, pick 2 is still ours to use.
the trades with sydney have not come to nothing it just hasn't become official. for all we know a deal coud have been made anytime today we just havent heard about it yet. i would safely say that we have secured adam schnider and possibly dempster for pick 26. and chris johnson for our third round pick. but dont say they have come to nothing because for all we know they coud be oiffical tomrorow morning.

lol I could say the exact same thing, that for all we know the deal is complete rubbish, I would safely say that we have no secured schnider or possibly dempster for pick 26....etcetc.., and it'd be worth no more than your word.

The fact is until the deal is done, our 2nd round pick is still ours.

or I could play this card. http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 65,00.html

Roos:"I'm almost certain nothing is going to happen with them (in trade week).''

Which would lean towards the notion that the ''deals'' have come to nothing. Though lets wait and see until tomorrow, stranger things have happened. I understand though that we don't know what goes on behind the scenes and for all we know deals could've been done, doesn't mean I cant float around idea's with pick 2.

Behind Play · Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:28pm

[quote="Saint Mik"]Brooks is untradable thats why he is still with us

May be you are correct. He may also be in a new position....in front of the big sticks.

Unforgiven · Post: # 473317Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:30pm

Yeah my old man reckon's brooksy would go alright down at FF. Showed a glimmer up at the Gabba and can kick goals in VFL at least.

TimeToShineFellas · Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:41pm

Saint Corin wrote:Yeah my old man reckon's brooksy would go alright down at FF. Showed a glimmer up at the Gabba and can kick goals in VFL at least.

Yes against a team full of Brisbane midgets, and VFL isn't exactly a great measure of how you'd fare in the AFL.

If VFL goal-kicking form was all it was cracked up to be, Nick Sautner would have been drafted a long time ago......

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:45pm

or I could play this card. http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 65,00.html

that article was written last night. neogtiations have een held and schneider has been contacted in bali. that signalls to me some progression with the 'deals' since that article was written.

st_Trav_ofWA · Thu 11 Oct 2007 7:48pm

i reckon if we get king or any ruckman for that matter in the trades brooks will be finally delisted ..... then we will see his true worth when no club pick him in the PSD

bigcarl · Post: # 473362Post **bigcarl** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 8:35pm

if we can pick up king without having to give up too much i'd say go for it. 28 isn't that old for a ruckman. some of them don't start playing their best football until they get to about that age and experience and a mature body count for a lot.

imo it was king we've had our eyes on the whole time. the offer to blake was to distract the cats and has worked a treat.

we need king as insurance in case gardiner doesn't come up. then we'll be forced to use kosi for hack work in the ruck rather than settling him into full forward

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 8:43pm

there is a slight problem. if we don't crack a deal with king and he goes into the PSD then carlton may possibly take him. ceo of carlton said today they were looking for another big name in the PSD and king might be just what they need to guide kreuzer into the big time. he is obviously a proven leader.

ausfatcat · Post: # 473384Post **ausfatcat** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 8:45pm

forever a saint wrote:there is a slight problem. if we don't crack a deal with king and he goes into the PSD then carlton may possibly take him. ceo of carlton said today they were looking for another big name in the PSD and king might be just what they need to guide kreuzer into the big time. he is obviously a proven leader.

So be it....... He just not that good to bother with unless he is for free.

forever a saint · Thu 11 Oct 2007 8:46pm

ausfatcat wrote:
forever a saint wrote:there is a slight problem. if we don't crack a deal with king and he goes into the PSD then carlton may possibly take him. ceo of carlton said today they were looking for another big name in the PSD and king might be just what they need to guide kreuzer into the big time. he is obviously a proven leader.

So be it....... He just not that good to bother with unless he is for free.

i disagree. most player peak between 26 and 30. he is 28. if we can get him for a thrid round pick the go for it.

Unforgiven · Post: # 473405Post **Unforgiven** » Thu 11 Oct 2007 8:54pm

forever a saint wrote:
or I could play this card. http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 65,00.html
that article was written last night. neogtiations have een held and schneider has been contacted in bali. that signalls to me some progression with the 'deals' since that article was written.

Source for this latest information?

TimeToShineFellas, well at least he has shown something. I know VFL isn't a clear indication of going well at AFL. Though Sam Gilbert was a failry average VFL player yet excells at AFL. It's better than nothing, gotta base it on something.