A ruckman

[big_kosi]

Now that we have a midfielder/fowrard...we move for a ruckman, anyone heard anything?? if rumours are true about giving our second round pick for schneider, we might have to give up our first pick for a wood or warnock? thoughts?

[SaintBot]

Now that we have a midfielder/fowrard...we move for a ruckman, anyone heard anything?? if rumours are true about giving our second round pick for schneider, we might have to give up our first pick for a wood or warnock? thoughts?

having lost our 2nd rounder...the only deal i hope we do is for our third pick for a lesser player and a later pick

or using our fourth or latter pick for someone

keep pick 9 fullstop.
try and keep pick 43.

im happy to stay out of trade week for now, if we do land schneider

[mad saint guy]

If the Schneider deal goes through (and involves pick 26) I think that would be it for our trade week.

We could end up going for another useless ruckman for pick 43 (Doyle, McDonald) if they really feel like it.

With Schneider in the team our AFL quality midfield stocks would be

Hayes
Dal Santo
Montagna
Ball
Harvey
Schneider
Baker
Fiora

That is 8 players and in modern footy you need at least 10. If we draft a midfielder with pick 9 and he (as well as Armitage and one of Howard/Geary) we will be set. Goddard and Xavier Clarke might end up playing as mids as well, but right now they couldn't crack it.

[TwoTowers]

Schneider is not a midfielder. It has been stated elsewhere that one of the reasons Sydney is parting with him is Roos' concern about his team carrying too many players who do not have the aerobic capacity to move into the midfield. They have Nick Davis and O'Laughlin as similar types (i.e. goal-sneaks with limited flexibility to play elsewhere).

[Art Vandelay]

There don't seem to be too many ruck options left (that we can afford).
Meeson ---> Melbourne
Hudson---> Bulldogs
Wood ----> Pies

As for the rest

King ---> would only trade a fourth round for him as he is too old and too fragile

Warnock ---> fourth rounder at best as he hasn't achieved anything yet.

Don't see too many other options.

I haven't watched too much of the VFL this year, but are there any mature ruckmen (ie, 22-25 yo) in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL that could be considered?

[mad saint guy]

Schneider is not a midfielder. It has been stated elsewhere that one of the reasons Sydney is parting with him is Roos' concern about his team carrying too many players who do not have the aerobic capacity to move into the midfield.

While he isn't a starting center-square midfielder, he definitely is useful occasionally rotating through there, even if only as a link-up player coming out of defence.

Schneider plays the same role as Xavier Clarke, but does a much better job. If we got Schneider one of those two would play primarily as midfielder.

[Solar]

There don't seem to be too many ruck options left (that we can afford).
Meeson ---> Melbourne
Hudson---> Bulldogs
Wood ----> Pies

As for the rest

King ---> would only trade a fourth round for him as he is too old and too fragile

Warnock ---> fourth rounder at best as he hasn't achieved anything yet.

Don't see too many other options.

I haven't watched too much of the VFL this year, but are there any mature ruckmen (ie, 22-25 yo) in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL that could be considered?

I would swap 3rd round picks with geelong for king or give our third rounder to freo for warnock

pull either of these off plus the schneider and I would feel very happy about the situation our list is in

[Riewoldting]

That is 8 players and in modern footy you need at least 10. If we draft a midfielder with pick 9 and he (as well as Armitage and one of Howard/Geary) we will be set. Goddard and Xavier Clarke might end up playing as mids as well, but right now they couldn't crack it.

Gram?

[Animal Enclosure]

Warnock is rated extremely highly, is 205cm, athletic with good skills.

Is also under contract for 2008 so it would take a ripper of a deal to get him away from freo. With our lack of West Aussies on the list we would have to part with pick 9 to get him. That sounds unlikely so King for a late pick is the best we can do.

He is a Sandy Dragons U/18 so the lure of the bayside suburbs may be calling....hopefully!

He will be a gun though... much better than Wood, Meesen & Blake

[kp83]

There don't seem to be too many ruck options left (that we can afford).
Meeson ---> Melbourne
Hudson---> Bulldogs
Wood ----> Pies

As for the rest

King ---> would only trade a fourth round for him as he is too old and too fragile

Warnock ---> fourth rounder at best as he hasn't achieved anything yet.

Don't see too many other options.

I haven't watched too much of the VFL this year, but are there any mature ruckmen (ie, 22-25 yo) in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL that could be considered?

What about Moran from the Roos?

[mad saint guy]

King ---> would only trade a fourth round for him as he is too old and too fragile

Warnock ---> fourth rounder at best as he hasn't achieved anything yet.

I haven't watched too much of the VFL this year, but are there any mature ruckmen (ie, 22-25 yo) in the VFL/SANFL/WAFL that could be considered?

And there is the problem. King is worth far more than a fourth rounder to Geelong, but no club would be willing to trade anythign of value for him because he is old, slow and injury-prone. He won't go anywhere.

Warnock hasn't proven that he is an AFL-quality ruckman yet, but the signs he has shown in his few appearances have been very promising so Fremantle would want a top 10 pick for him. Any 20 year old, 205cm ruckman who can get 15 possessions and 15 hitouts in their first few games will demand a very high price. However yo never know how young rucks will turn out, so paying a high price for him is a huge gamble.

I think we should have learnt our lesson about recruiting ordinary ruckmen with major defficiencies in their game.

Cook, Monkhurst, Elliot, Sierakowski, Capuano, Knobel, Oliver, Brooks, Stone, Ackland, Rix, Clarke and Gardiner haven't turned out too well, so I don't see why another bunch of players other teams don't want would have different results.

There are no proven quality ruckmen up for trade, so I don't see why we should persue any. We already have Gardiner, Koschitzke, Rix, Brooks, Blake and van Rheenen who could all do an ordinary job in the ruck, so why get any more?

[Art Vandelay]

here, here mad saint guy!!!!

Agree Totally with your comments.[/quote]

[skeptic]

Cook, Monkhurst, Elliot, Sierakowski, Capuano, Knobel, Oliver, Brooks, Stone, Ackland, Rix, Clarke and Gardiner

hmmm for us... clearly Sierakowski was the best of that lot, quite liked David and was sad to see him go... nick named him lionheart

[mad saint guy]

Gram?

Right now I am not convinced on Gram as a midfielder. His best work is done when he runs hard to find space in defence to receive the ball and is then allowed to carry the ball up the ground and deliver into the midfield. If he was playing permanently as a midfielder he wouldn't get that amount of space, he would be exploited for his poor accountability, he wouldn't be able to run as far as he does now and his kicks to forwards are poor. With tired legs and more rushed decision-making we would see a return of the Grambulance.

He would be of absolutely no use around the clearances and his tackling is ordinary. He is fast and fit, but they are the only strengths he would be taking into the midfield. In my opinion he is far better suited to playing as a loose running defender.

[Animal Enclosure]

So by your reasoning MSG don' t try because it hasn't worked in the past.

Warnock is as big a gamble as drafting an untried kid at pick 9. Pick 9 could be a gun or a dud. Warnock has at least shown that he can play at the highest level & IMO has shown a lot.

I'm not saying give pick 9 up but I'd definitely consider it.

As for King... well he's a risk but still a better option to have on the list than Sweeney or Raymond

[forever a saint]

msg- dont u think tackling and acountability is just as if not more important in the backline as it is in the midfield. he could be an attacking midfielder. obviously it hasnt bveen to much of a problem for him in the past.

[saintsRrising]

Gram?

Right now I am not convinced on Gram as a midfielder. His best work is done when he runs hard to find space in defence to receive the ball and is then allowed to carry the ball up the ground and deliver into the midfield. If he was playing permanently as a midfielder he wouldn't get that amount of space, he would be exploited for his poor accountability, he wouldn't be able to run as far as he does now and his kicks to forwards are poor. With tired legs and more rushed decision-making we would see a return of the Grambulance.

He would be of absolutely no use around the clearances and his tackling is ordinary. He is fast and fit, but they are the only strengths he would be taking into the midfield. In my opinion he is far better suited to playing as a loose running defender.

Put Gram on a HF...with him running up into the midfield....


If you still had wingman...he would be perfect.

[mad saint guy]

So by your reasoning MSG don' t try because it hasn't worked in the past.

Warnock is as big a gamble as drafting an untried kid at pick 9. Pick 9 could be a gun or a dud. Warnock has at least shown that he can play at the highest level & IMO has shown a lot.

Basically, yes. That was a list of 12 ruckmen we have recruited in the past 8 or so years and none of them ever contributed anything to the team. The available ruckmen right now are available because their team has decided that they are incapable of playing good footy.

Warnock would be the second best developing ruck prospect in the league IMO (behind Leuenberger), but there is still a very good chance that his development will stall for some reason (serious injury, lack of aggression, poor disposal, no confidence, lacking passion, can't put on weight etc) like 4 out of every 5 ruckmen drafted and he won't turn out to be worth pick 43. On the other hand Freo could get lucky and he could be the next Dean Cox. There is just too much of a risk and we desperately need midfieders (who are usually a much safer bet in the draft).

[mad saint guy]

msg- dont u think tackling and acountability is just as if not more important in the backline as it is in the midfield. he could be an attacking midfielder. obviously it hasnt bveen to much of a problem for him in the past.

He plays his best footy as a loose backman, when the opposition put negating playing on him. His opponent is usually too worried about Gram tearing his team up to really hurt St Kilda. And with all the flooding we do, there is usually someone who can take Gram's opponent for a couple of minutes if they let Gram run forward.

Gram could be a good midfielder, but he is a great running defender. We don't have anyone else who could replace him and do as good a job, while the likes of Xavier Clarke and maybe Geary/Howard coudl be useful outside midfielders.

[Art Vandelay]

All this hype about Warnock is based on wishful thinking more so than fact I'm afraid. If this guy is so good, why then did the Dockers prefer to use Gilmore in the ruck instead of Warnock for the majority of the second half of the season? (and Gilmore is only 189cm or so)
Just because the kid is 205 cm, doesn't make him the next Dean Cox.

[saintsRrising]

Well Wood is a Pie now..

So the available rucks are shrinking...

Meesan went to the Dees fora bargain price.....but Adelaide posters have him asa bit like Brooks......a good athlete with lots of talent but lacking in endeavour.

[forever a saint]

the bottom line is we are screwed. we made a push for blake but he resigned and now there is 21 hours left of trade week and we havent solved our original problem. i truly hope lyon and sheldon are organizing something now and i will get a pleasant surprise in tomorrows papers or we r stuffed for ruckman.

[Art Vandelay]

I hope we haven't put all of our eggs in the Schneider basket, and miss out on other potential trades.

[forever a saint]

I hope we haven't put all of our eggs in the Schneider basket, and miss out on other potential trades.

there are no potential trades for ruckman. we have to use kosi rix gardiner and maybe brooks because other then king there is no one in the trade of who we need.

[Armoooo]

the bottom line is we are screwed. we made a push for blake but he resigned and now there is 21 hours left of trade week and we havent solved our original problem. i truly hope lyon and sheldon are organizing something now and i will get a pleasant surprise in tomorrows papers or we r stuffed for ruckman.

We wont get a ruckman, we were never going to get a quality ruckman, anyone who thought we would were just kidding themselves..
Gardiner, Kosi + Blake is a good enough ruck team, the rest comes down to our entry into the forward 50 and our fitness... I really don't think having a good ruckman even one the quality of say Brogan would make nay difference, the only type that would help are the ones that are almost good enough to play midfield themself...