I want the Saints to feel like being a CLUB again.....

[saintsRrising]

Is it time to vote FF?

I tend to like to have a reasonable set of facts before deciding on things. we are all different….but I like to decide on a broader set of factors than just emotion.

So far unfortunately FF have not been overly forthcoming about exactly what they will do when they assume control. This has delayed me, and others from making a final decision.

Footy First promises to spend more, give members more…..and these are well and good …but what does this mean exactly? How can we measure what they promise or will know when they have achieved?

On the other hand the current Board has certainly done many things right, but yes there have been mistakes too. But then who is perfect? Unfortunately for RB the GT stigma will probably tarnish him forevermore.

Some on the forum want to see things purely black and white……but I do not. The current Board has made mistakes, but financially it is reasonably sound and by St Kilda measures is very sound. But yes compared to other comparable clubs we do seem to be being left behind.

I want FF to be what they say….but on the other hand if I was a megalomaniac just wanting to seize power at the Saints I would probably be doing exactly what is being done….promise the world, but give no precise detail, and have two former club favorites knowing that many will just vote because of this, contact all the members and do a whistle-stop tour of all the branches.


so it really boils in large part down to whether one has the faith in Burke and Thompson to have gained an accurate measure of Westaway and the other Board Members…but in Westaway in particular as the other Board members may come and go and it is Westaway that is the person that you really need to stand up and deliver.

Many other forumites have gained a positive impression of Westaway from having had a meting with him…..but I am aware of dealing with say salesmen in the past who promised me the world…only to later discover that their claims were just that claims.

But I have read the posts with interest, and so PMs too…and through this process I have come to a conclusion and that is that in recent years that we the Members….have really become we the customers and not really Members of a Club at all.

I have been a member for a few decades now……and a Social Club Member for most of that time.

Over the last year or two though the Social Club Membership has really just degenerated in the main to a an extra fee to gain access to GF tickets if we ever make it….and seats in the SC are (well at least that is tangible benefit).


Member benefits such as a The Saint Magazine and the Big Screen for Interstate matches have disappeared.

Membership still gets me into home games, but the e-newsletter is really only an excuse to sell me things.

Being a Member now seems to just mean being a “customerâ€

[saint patrick]

We will not have a united ,happy club at St.Kilda until Rod Butterss accepts he has run his race IMO

Too much baggage and residual crap from the Thomas era

His offering not to oppose Burkie and Thommo in seeking board positions under his presidency is clearly an act of a desperate egomantic trying to cling to power at any cost...

That after he suggested Andrew and Adrian his spiv buddies at the afl decide whether the new board is up to scratch in preference to the members deciding

Lost me big time at that point..

The club will be fragmented until he moves on full stop.

[spert]

Of course want our club to be united, but the challenging board and them alone, have now caused significant destabilisation of this club. At the end of our season I spoke to a few passionate Sainters here and there was barely a mention of the board or Butters, it was discussion about what we needed as far as players go, how we played during the season, who should be delisted, who should stay..the only talk about Butters was that he should dial back a bit on public statements, otherwise no issues, happy that we are doing OK financially and that was it. All OK until Westaway and his mob stepped in, now we see the results, excatly what Westaway wanted ...divide and conquor, pity so many suckers have taken the bait.

[aussierules0k]

[karnaby]

Very well expressed (& well spelt ) OP sRs & if SFF do eventually get up they will have been gifted a great run at things so they will be marked harshly by many.

I would like to say that I agree with a lot of what you have written, however before I decide where to cast my vote, I'd still really like to hear from the incumbents. The fact that we have barely heard from them in over 2 weeks coupled with the shallow arguments for their retention from their supporters on here does not look good.

Fwiw spert, you have taken a role as a spokesperson for Butterss, & noting that I haven't yet decided who to vote for, do you really think firing trite potshots such as:
"excatly what Westaway wanted ...divide and conquor"
&
"pity so many suckers have taken the bait"
&
"SFF? should really be SFA as that's all they are offering"
is at all likely to convince me, or anyone else, to vote for RB?

[Dan Warna]

concur with you post karnaby, spert is quite partisan and has been for sometime.

HOWEVER the abuse dished out to butters is quite sad also.

it isn't comedy its directed at denigrating a person who has put in a lot of hours and time to the club.

I am voting against butterss but I respect what he has done and I hope he isn't shunned as some fans would want. I think his achievements under duress are applaudable.

I think if butterss wins a fair and open election which seems unlikely, he would continue to work for st kilda, if he fails I hold the new custodians accountable to continue and improve on what we have seen. further I hope tehy extend the olive branch to ensure butterss isn't lost to the club.

[Shaggy]

Of course want our club to be united, but the challenging board and them alone, have now caused significant destabilisation of this club.

Lol.

How can you say that when the split comes from the Board.

Obviously the problems at Board level have been around for some time.

[bigcarl]

further I hope tehy extend the olive branch to ensure butterss isn't lost to the club.

the same olive branch should be extended to gt. together they regained st kilda some degree of respect.

[saintbart]

Best post I've read in very long time saintsRrising. Not just because i agree with what you have said, but because your post was balanced. I especially liked your comments regarding customers versus members.

Would love to see this published in one of the major papers - very professionally written.

[Enrico_Misso]

For the first 100 years of our history since joining the VFL we would have killed to have a Board capable of creating a financially stable environment.

We lurched from one financial crisis to the next.

We were incredibly lucky to survive the 80's 6 cents in the dollar crisis.
And from comments Anrew Plympton has made we came a lot closer than most people realise to collapsing during the SOS days.

FINALLY
We get a Board that has led us to stable economic ground.

And now we want to throw them out

WHY ?
Because we are being sucked in by the promise of riches.
Yes I think Rod is a bit of a sleeze.
And that bit of facial hair looks ridiculous.
And he hasn't always been very diplomatic.

BUT HIS BOARD HAS THE BEST RECORD OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT IN OUR HISTORY.

Why would you risk losing all we have gained to bring in an untested Board full of hot air and slick marketing ?

If Westaway feels he can make a contribution, then let him nominate for a board vacancy and work within the system, get some runs on the board, so he can eventually put his hand up to replace Butterss in a smooth transition.

This whole take-over may very well blow up in our faces.
There is much more downside than upside in replacing the current Board.

[Otiman]

I agree with both sRr and Enrico Misso.

Still, I believe GW's ticket is financially stable enough to continue the good work started by RB.

The only thing that i'm concerned about is if things go downhill slightly, in the financial sector, everyone will be wanting to out the GW led board and get RB back in.

[stinger]

Is it time to vote FF?

excellent post sr.....

[saint66au]

Agree stinger..excellent post..but was it really neccesary to requote the whole thing?? I reckon we could have worked out which one you were referring to

[stinger]

Agree stinger..excellent post..but was it really neccesary to requote the whole thing?? I reckon we could have worked out which one you were referring to

fixed....

[santazzi]

Great post saintsRising. Very informative and helpful to me as I think through the various issues to decide where my vote goes.............Thanks for a top contribution.

[rexy]

Just want to reiterate the thoughts of most by saying great post. I have voted FF for much the same reasons. Footy to be about Footy not personal issues between guys who only had the club at heart (please)

[Q5]

Fantastic post sRr!

I agree completely - it's about the CLUB as a whole, and about the members BELONGING. Afterall, even players, coaches, staff, Boards etc., come and go - the ONLY constant is the members and supporters. We support the CLUB! Some can argue that supporters come and go as well, but the 'real' supporter stays true. I'm a third generation Saints fan (my Pop played for the ressies in the '30s) - and now, my niece and nephew 4th. Anyone marrying into our extended family gets 'converted'. The stories of success and failure are passed down through the generations, the 'Club' is part of my family.

WE ARE THE CLUB!

It's about time we, the members and supporters, were shown the respect from those whom we have entrusted to do the things that we cannot... We are the walls that hold the building up - they are the roof - the roof cannot stand without the walls...

[Teflon]

For the first 100 years of our history since joining the VFL we would have killed to have a Board capable of creating a financially stable environment.

We lurched from one financial crisis to the next.

We were incredibly lucky to survive the 80's 6 cents in the dollar crisis.
And from comments Anrew Plympton has made we came a lot closer than most people realise to collapsing during the SOS days.

FINALLY
We get a Board that has led us to stable economic ground.

And now we want to throw them out

WHY ?
Because we are being sucked in by the promise of riches.
Yes I think Rod is a bit of a sleeze.
And that bit of facial hair looks ridiculous.
And he hasn't always been very diplomatic.

BUT HIS BOARD HAS THE BEST RECORD OF FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT IN OUR HISTORY.

Why would you risk losing all we have gained to bring in an untested Board full of hot air and slick marketing ?

If Westaway feels he can make a contribution, then let him nominate for a board vacancy and work within the system, get some runs on the board, so he can eventually put his hand up to replace Butterss in a smooth transition.

This whole take-over may very well blow up in our faces.
There is much more downside than upside in replacing the current Board.

Great post Enrico and SR - You sum up my thoughts too.

Im not wrapt on everything Rod Butters has done BUT you do have to weight that up against the good things he and his Board have done and compare that to whats being put on the table from SFF......right now...there aint much comparison.

1 Board HAS been arguably our most succesfull ever.
The proposed Board is promises, cliches and very little real detail.....

My greatest dissapointment is that many supporters have jumped at shadows and bought spin and not demanded some facts.

It is a big decisions to get wrong...

[Enrico_Misso]

It's about time we, the members and supporters, were shown the respect from those whom we have entrusted to do the things that we cannot... We are the walls that hold the building up - they are the roof - the roof cannot stand without the walls...

Well I would have thought wiping out a $3.5m debt.
AND
creating operating profits of >$1m pa

is a pretty fair start ???

[The Peanut]

Fantastic post sRr!

. . . WE ARE THE CLUB!
It's about time we, the members and supporters, were shown the respect from those whom we have entrusted to do the things that we cannot... We are the walls that hold the building up - they are the roof - the roof cannot stand without the walls...

Edit: Thumbs up re sRr post and Q5 comment (deletion of graphic)

[Cirra]

Excellent post saintrising.

You said something that I have been thinking for a while, the curent board -

"They have given us a great foundation to build on."

I agree that the current board have done good job in getting us to a position to move forward but I am not sure they can do what is necessary to make us a long-term successful club.

That said, I do not want to forget the current board and I do wish to thank them for doing what was necessary at the time to get us into a better position.

This is the same way I feel about GT. I'm thankful he did what was needed to be done to make us competitive but then we need someone else to continue the good work.

I don't want to forget the people (GT and RB) that put the Saints into a positive position.
I want to move on from them to go to the next step, but I don't want to hate those that came before.

[4theluvoftheclub]

Enrico, how about you stop repeating ad nauseum the old RB line about debt and profits...other threads for weeks and the AFL stats part of the SFF website have exposed the real facts underlying this ...The issue now is that RB and his mates are ignoring 8500 members who have decided (whether you or RB or his mates agree) they want a change..the arrogance and ego to ignore 8500 votes ...can only just wonder....our club needs to get on with the change

[Teflon]

Enrico, how about you stop repeating ad nauseum the old RB line about debt and profits...other threads for weeks and the AFL stats part of the SFF website have exposed the real facts underlying this ...The issue now is that RB and his mates are ignoring 8500 members who have decided (whether you or RB or his mates agree) they want a change..the arrogance and ego to ignore 8500 votes ...can only just wonder....our club needs to get on with the change

what about the rest of the members? dont we get a say?

as for telling Enrico to lay off....why dont you give us all a break from the Westaway Election campaign????

Infact....disappear up ure own @ss and go back where you came from ya blow in......

[Enrico_Misso]

That said, I do not want to forget the current board and I do wish to thank them for doing what was necessary at the time to get us into a better position.

I want to move on from them to go to the next step, but I don't want to hate those that came before.

If you agree the current Board have done a good job, why take a risk with a new Board that promises heaps but is short on experience and short on details ?

Look at runs on the board, not vague motherhood statements.

[Enrico_Misso]

Enrico, how about you stop repeating ad nauseum the old RB line about debt and profits...other threads for weeks and the AFL stats part of the SFF website have exposed the real facts underlying this ...The issue now is that RB and his mates are ignoring 8500 members who have decided (whether you or RB or his mates agree) they want a change..the arrogance and ego to ignore 8500 votes ...can only just wonder....our club needs to get on with the change

My concern is that those (alleged) 8,500 members have been seduced by some slick marketing, promises of pots of gold
and a reply paid envelope.

I believe they have voted without fully considering the options
AND THE RISKS.