Saints to move haloes for a new star - The Australian

[Mr Magic]

Hang on why didn't we get Judd in the first place?? dodgy shoulder was it ? Now he has Groin problems.
I will not be happy if we get rid of a Maguire or joey.

We don't need a midfielder we need backmen ffs!

According to John Beveridge it had nothing to do with his shoulder(s) and everything to do with being conned by WCE on Draft Day.
Hawthorn 'bought' pick 1 from Freo for Hodge
We had oicks 2 and 5
They had picks 3 and 6
Freo had pick 4 and declared they were taking ????

We wanted both Judd and Ball.
They declared that they would not take Judd because he had bad shoulder(s) and would take Ball if avaialble at #3
We therefore took ball at 2 thinking we would get Judd at 5 and that WCE would then take X at 3.

WCE took Judd at 3 and according to JB, smiled at him (JB) when they announced their selection.

I too don't think that there is any way we can compete with what Carlton has to offer for Judd, but all this 'horse trading' may make our pick #9 worth a lot to Collingwood, Melbourne, Essendon or anybody else looking to get Judd.

[plugger66]

No one is trading GOOSE!! he is AWESOME and will be back on track in 2008!! CHRIST SAKE you should all be ashamed for even thinking IT!!

Watts, Fiora and Pick 9 for Judd there you go.

Well I want Judd and if that means Goose goes so be it. I think Goose is great but is a little overrated. Judd is not slightly overrated and will help the side more than Goose. Is is a business and the business is winning flags. I also understand loyalty but I am prepared to say stuff loyalty if we could get Judd.

[Lenny_Hayes7]

Exactly my point we can't give away s*** for judd so is it really worth it that's all im saying.

[wildgoose]

No one is trading GOOSE!! he is AWESOME and will be back on track in 2008!! CHRIST SAKE you should all be ashamed for even thinking IT!!

Watts, Fiora and Pick 9 for Judd there you go.

Problem is West Coast don't want players, they want draft picks. If we do go after him, we have to give up pick 9, plus trade a player to get a draft pick, e.g. pick 5 from Western Bulldogs.

Judd is up there with the best in the comp, West Coast aren't going to take Fiora who wouldn't make there team, and Watts who wouldn't make there team.

[joffaboy]

If this is correct it is selling our future on the hope of anothe messiah, no less than that.

We haven't sold anything yet, and haven't declared we are going to get him either.

We just want him, and will try to get him.

Your posts are easily the most dramatic and emotive on this site these days.

We go from an article in which we say we are trying to get him as a priority, to selling our future for a messiah!

Such drama!

I have asked you before to not personally attack me.

You have a habit of doing such when you have no0 argument.

It shows more about you than anything RogerFox.

Giving up two top ten dps plus a quality player for a bloke who wont be properly fit until 2009 and has an injury cloud over him is selling out our future.

This is not dramatic it is fact.

Because you have the messiah complex RogerFox, you cannot see that rational thinking is the best way to go when looking at Chris Judd.

Instead you want to throw everything at him in a frenzy of seemingly desperation

You dreaming is admirable and it would be nice to get Judd for a reasonable price but what is being reported as his asking price is indeed selling out our future.

So next time, put up a reasoned argument on someone elses opinion not another in a long line of personal insults.

Really getting sick of your bullying tactics when you are getting shown up.

This is still a forum isn't it? My opinion is my opinion, it isn't right or wrong.

If you dont like that, go and set up a blog of your own where nobody will have the temerity to dispute your views

Your bullying doesn't wash here anymore RoogerFox.

[joffaboy]

Well I want Judd and if that means Goose goes so be it. I think Goose is great but is a little overrated. Judd is not slightly overrated and will help the side more than Goose. Is is a business and the business is winning flags. I also understand loyalty but I am prepared to say stuff loyalty if we could get Judd.

More like Goose and Kosi and two top ten dp's.

Hope he is worth it.

[rodgerfox]

If this is correct it is selling our future on the hope of anothe messiah, no less than that.

We haven't sold anything yet, and haven't declared we are going to get him either.

We just want him, and will try to get him.

Your posts are easily the most dramatic and emotive on this site these days.

We go from an article in which we say we are trying to get him as a priority, to selling our future for a messiah!

Such drama!

I have asked you before to not personally attack me.

You have a habit of doing such when you have no0 argument.

Stop sooking. I haven't attacked you, I've attacked your posts. Big difference. One is against the rules on here, the other isn't.

So stop dobbing and grow up.

Giving up two top ten dps plus a quality player for a bloke who wont be properly fit until 2009 and has an injury cloud over him is selling out our future.

This is not dramatic it is fact.

If we do it - then it's a fact. But until we do, it's a dramatisation.

See the difference? Fact is, nothing has happened yet. Fact is, no-one from the club has suggested that is what we are offering.

Because you have the messiah complex RogerFox, you cannot see that rational thinking is the best way to go when looking at Chris Judd.

Instead you want to throw everything at him in a frenzy of seemingly desperation

Huh??

Where have I said anything about throwing anything at him??

You dreaming is admirable and it would be nice to get Judd for a reasonable price but what is being reported as his asking price is indeed selling out our future.

Oh, so now I only want him for a reasonable price?? You just said above I want to throw everything at him?

So next time, put up a reasoned argument on someone elses opinion not another in a long line of personal insults.

Really getting sick of your bullying tactics when you are getting shown up.

This is still a forum isn't it? My opinion is my opinion, it isn't right or wrong.

If you dont like that, go and set up a blog of your own where nobody will have the temerity to dispute your views

Your bullying doesn't wash here anymore RoogerFox.

As I said above, I've attacked your posts.

Grow up.

PM the mods if you have a genuine concern. Don't waste everyone elses time with your dobbing whining.

I know the rules of this forum, and I stick to them.

[plugger66]

Well I want Judd and if that means Goose goes so be it. I think Goose is great but is a little overrated. Judd is not slightly overrated and will help the side more than Goose. Is is a business and the business is winning flags. I also understand loyalty but I am prepared to say stuff loyalty if we could get Judd.

More like Goose and Kosi and two top ten dp's.

Hope he is worth it.

Well obviously if they want that much we wouldnt be intersted but if it is pick nine and Goose I would go for it.

[Gabba]

The only reason Judd would want to come to the Saints, isthat he wouldn't have to play on Bakes anymore, offset that against having to go man on man with him at training, juddy might just quit after a training session or two.

I would rather build a defense around goose than trade him for a player with a very big question mark over injury.!

Bakes does seem like the kind of funny guy who would lighten up a recovery session with his and milney's antics

[nicko016]

As I see it, the key part of the puzzle is who Judd nominates because they will have a major advantage and then how decisive he is.

I don't think we have much of a chance but to be any cance we need to drive really hard for him? Convince him that he want's to come to St Kilda and only St Kilda. I reckon a good talk with RL could do a lot. I see it as vitally important as who he chooses because it is unlikely any clubs can make an offer to beat Carlton. We would need for him to say that he only want's to come to St Kilda so as then West Coast would only be in negotiation with us. Then what would happen is that there would be alot of to and fro until half an hour before the Friday deadline WC would have to accept a deal otherwise they lose him to the PSD.

It's going to be crazy if WC are going major offers from lots of clubs and this will cut us out of it. We would need to be in a position where we were the only club Judd wanted to go to and therefore they only club in negotitions so they will eventually accept a deal just before the deadline so they don't lose him for nothing.

Unfortunately, I don't think we are gonig to be so lucky and I think KS will go about chucking up trade options instead of convincing Judd to come to St Kilda which I think is the wrong way to go about.

On the PSD, how does it work? Do the uncontracted players have to agree to terms to be picked up by a club or anything?

[Oh When the Saints]

Could we use him? Of course we could.

Will the price we pay be too big to get him? Yep.

I don't want the club to get Chris Judd for a number of reasons - injury, cost, stigma inter alia ...


However ...

This trade was put to me today on the proviso that Judd names St Kilda as his preferred home.

St Kilda trade Maguire + pick #9 to Richmond for Pettifer and pick #2. St Kilda on-trade pick #2 + Xavier Clarke to West Coast for Chris Judd.


St Kilda
GAIN: C. Judd, K. Pettifer
LOSE: Pick #9, X. Clarke, M. Maguire

West Coast
GAIN: X. Clarke, Pick #2
LOSE: C. Judd

Richmond:
GAIN: M. Maguire, Pick #9
LOSE: K. Pettifer, Pick #2


Personally I think the Eagles don't get quite enough, although the rest of the deal is fine.

As I said before ... I don't want Judd.

[Gabba]

P.S. I am in favour of all the arguments for not bidding for Judd.

But watch out for what happens: I reckon this mob might do anything bar trade Riewoldt for Judd. They are desperate to hang onto their jobs, and may well see getting Judd to the club as the key to maintaining the support of the members.

It's a bit like Howard with his crazy stuff like taking over the Northern Territory, Mersey hospital, the Murray-Darling and - you heard it here first - the upper Muckinup cake competition.

Yep..its called electioneering!!

The really annoying thing to me is that if RB and Co think that jetting Judd will secure their future, then they are assuming that all Saints supporters are mindless sheep.

Admittedly we of SS are the intelligentsia of Saints fans but surely the arguments against the idea proposed here have been thought of beyond the world of SS??

Hehe, intelligensia. A former/current studen of the Russian Revolution?

On topic, in would not want to lose a player like Joey or Goose for an injury ridden Judd. Anyway, the facilities alone must be a deterrent. I sincerely hope the football department don't move earth to get him to join the club.

[mad saint guy]

Our ideal team (not including trades/drafts) for 2008

B: S.Fisher, Hudghton, L.Fisher
HB: Gram, Maguire, Gilbert
C: Fiora, Hayes, Montagna
HF: Goddard, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Hamill, Koschitzke, Milne

Foll: Gardiner, Ball, Dal Santo
Int: Baker, Birss, R.Clarke, Harvey

Our available backup team (in AFL positions and competent players in bold)

B: Ferguson, Gwilt, Wall
HB: Howard, ***, Eddy
C: Blake, McQualter, Geary
HF: Armitage, ***, Jones
F: Watts, Brooks, Allen

Foll: Rix, ***, ***
Int: Van Rheenen, ***, ***, ***

That shows me that the likes of Maguire, Gram, S.Fisher Riewoldt, Hayes, Ball and Dal Santo hurt the team most, because we have no replacements for them. Those players should be untouchable. While I think X.Clarke is a good player, we can probably afford to trade him. The same goes for Raph Clarke and Leigh Fisher (although neither would fetch a high pick). Everyone in the backup team is tradable.

[joffaboy]

Stop sooking. I haven't attacked you, I've attacked your posts. Big difference. One is against the rules on here, the other isn't.

So stop dobbing and grow up.

More personal attacks

Please stop this bullying. You have been warned by Mods in the past.

If we do it - then it's a fact. But until we do, it's a dramatisation.

Thats what i wrote. it is predicated on what is reportedly the WCE asking price Fair Dinkum

See the difference? Fact is, nothing has happened yet. Fact is, no-one from the club has suggested that is what we are offering.

Fact is that is what the WCE is reported to want. Predicated on that fact, I believe that it is selling our future for a suspect past champion.

Huh??

Where have I said anything about throwing anything at him??

So you haven't posted you want Judd? Base on the reported asking price, IMO it is throwing anything at him. Please try to understand simple logic and a coherant line of thought

Oh, so now I only want him for a reasonable price?? You just said above I want to throw everything at him?

I suppose I have to put "In a perfect world" in front of everything I say before you can understand it

I didn't say you wanted to get him at a decent price at all I said it would be nice to get Judd at a decent price, but, based on what reportedly the WCE want the price wont be decent - sheesh do i have to spell every simple statement out for you?

Grow up.

More bullying and insults

PM the mods if you have a genuine concern. Don't waste everyone elses time with your dobbing whining.

dobbing and whining. More personal insults. Your modis operandi is showing.

Please try to debate and not resort to this infantile bullying. IUt really doesn't wash anymore.

I know the rules of this forum, and I stick to them.

Well it is pretty obvious you dont RogerFox. You continue bully and insult and smokescreen and deliberately attempt to confuse the debate. this is especially so when you are being corralled and out debated.

Please stop the sideshow RogerFox. Too many of us have been around here to fall for your deflections and attempts to take the thread OT.

I think JoffaBurns has you completely down pat.

[i_luv_nick_riewoldt]

We seem to get a lot of the west coast recycled players you could say!
We got fraser, gardiner ..... possibly Judd!
i still consider getting judd through a trade with WC really risky! Judd is a superstar dont get me wrong but we can confirm that he will recover from OP and continue to play like the best player in the league!

[Richter]

I can't really see WCE getting a player, as mostly only a WA boy would want to go and there aren't that many good 'uns at Vic clubs available AFAIA.

I think they'll have to settle for two top ten picks. Which means that whichever club Judd picks as his preferred will have to come up with a 2nd top ten pick - in Collingwood's case two top tens.

IMO the expensive part won't be WCEs demands, or even the salary cap issue, it'll be getting hold of this 2nd top ten pick.

And the hardest part of all is persuading him to come to us.

For us then the issue is whether to

a/ not get involved

b/ be Judd's "preferred club" and trade with WCE for him

- thus need to trade with one of Richmond (pick 2), Carlton (pick 3) or Melbourne (pick 4)

- I could easily see a trade of Joey + 2nd round or Joey + Raph for one of these picks.

- that would be a great deal for the club with picks 2-4 and we'd get Judd for picks 9 + 26 + Joey. IMO a great deal for us.

- WCE would get two top ten picks. Not a bad deal for them either.

c/ Trade our pick #9

as I have previously suggested in another thread.

------------------------------------

Bottom line - we make a pitch to him and his manager. If he chooses us as his preferred club, we move heaven and earth to get him. IMHO.

[woooosaints]

If it is possible to get Judd we should try no doubt. IMO if he makes a full recovery and I think it is worth the punt we will have to give them pick 9 plus we need to get a loer top 10 pick. WCE have said they do not want plaers for the trade so the only hope I see is trade a plyer to another club for a low pick.

As sad as it seems the ideal player is Goose to the WB for their pick 5. WB need a tall key position player and he would suit them. We lose a Young CHB but we would have the best midfield in the AFL which would mean less pressure on the backline.

Lets move heaven and earth to get the best player in the AFL.

We should only trade goose if he doesnt sign its like just trading pick 9 for us basically but id say we could trade monty of goose for a 1st round pick and offer it to WCE and maybe a 2nd round pick

[Spinner]

Could we use him? Of course we could.

Will the price we pay be too big to get him? Yep.

I don't want the club to get Chris Judd for a number of reasons - injury, cost, stigma inter alia ...


However ...

This trade was put to me today on the proviso that Judd names St Kilda as his preferred home.

St Kilda trade Maguire + pick #9 to Richmond for Pettifer and pick #2. St Kilda on-trade pick #2 + Xavier Clarke to West Coast for Chris Judd.


St Kilda
GAIN: C. Judd, K. Pettifer
LOSE: Pick #9, X. Clarke, M. Maguire

West Coast
GAIN: X. Clarke, Pick #2
LOSE: C. Judd

Richmond:
GAIN: M. Maguire, Pick #9
LOSE: K. Pettifer, Pick #2


Personally I think the Eagles don't get quite enough, although the rest of the deal is fine.

As I said before ... I don't want Judd.

That is one of the worst trades I have ever seen.

[stairwaytoheaven]

There has been plenty of debate about Juddy and i for one would be concerned about his rehab and whether he will be tha same player again. We would have to give up way to much for him and i believe we would be better off to go with our draft pick and the salary cap would be blown out of proportion.

[saintspremiers]

look, as has been stated before provided we have that clown Sheldon running our footy dept expect nothing but lemons...