Judd leaving Eagles, SEN confirmed - discussion

[Iratedebate]

NO doubt it would be fantastic to get Chris Judd but unfortunately we are absolutely NO chance whatsoever.
We are having a hard enough time keeping the players we have now under the cap, let alone finding a spare million+ per season to get Juddy.
We also dont have too much bargaining power to even interest the Eagles in dealing with us.
It's great to here the superstar is coming back to Victoria, but quite frankly if it means that he is going to either Carlton or Collingwood i would rather him have stayed in W.A and seen out his playing days with the Eagles

[evertonfc]

Although Judd is a champ, could we really justify giving him that much cash if some of our other elite players have had to sacrifice financially over the years to stay together? How do you think they would feel about that?

I'd do whatever it takes for this player. He is a once-in-a-generation talent.

His influence on a team like ours - in desperate need of a player like him - would be immeasurable.

[saintbrat]

I can't believe we still have 500-650k 'free' to use? I'm sure Smmy's back-ended contract is higher next year, ditto for Luke Ball and BJ, both of whom will be coming towards the end of their contract terms.

I suppose we could put Harves back on the 'veterans list' and forego 1 rookie, but that wouldn't free up significant monies?

Sammy's current contract was NOT backended from reports at the time
his ORIGINAL contract was, as was Frasers. But this contract went for time over cash- longer for less per year.

[saintm]

I think I just heard on SEN that Nisbett has announced a press conference re Judd for tomorrow morning?

ABC Radio said this afternoon at 4pm which I took to be Perth time and that is what I just read on Big Footy as well. Perhaps it has been postponed until tomorrow?

[Mr Magic]

I can't believe we still have 500-650k 'free' to use? I'm sure Smmy's back-ended contract is higher next year, ditto for Luke Ball and BJ, both of whom will be coming towards the end of their contract terms.

I suppose we could put Harves back on the 'veterans list' and forego 1 rookie, but that wouldn't free up significant monies?

Sammy's current contract was NOT backended from reports at the time
his ORIGINAL contract was, as was Frasers. But this contract went for time over cash- longer for less per year.

Assumption by me

[ausfatcat]

I doubt BJ and ball's contract are backended. Would love Judd but he will come at a very very expensive price, my fear is the current board gets him to win votes and over pays him drastically in a bidding war with Carlton and Essendon (Collingwood wont be a serious contender).

[Mr Magic]

I doubt BJ and ball's contract are backended. Would love Judd but he will come at a very very expensive price, my fear is the current board gets him to win votes and over pays him drastically in a bidding war with Carlton and Essendon (Collingwood wont be a serious contender).

I would have thought most, if not all, contracts for 'major' players are back-ended?

Given that the salary cap increases over time it would seem to make sense that you would increase a players salary in line with that?

Obviously there is not as much need to back-end contracts for players on 100-250k.

[Otiman]

Certainly would look good on the Butterss led board if we do secure Judd.

The fact is that with our board in limbo as it is now, it will be tough to get any big name player to the saints in a trade.

[maverick]

No-ones swapping a top 10 pick for Goose surely?

What about pick 9 + 2nd rounder plus Montagna, enough for the Eagles?

[Unforgiven]

I would be amazed if we secured judd. I don't think we are much of a realistic chance at all though.

[TheBabyBlues]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

[Mr Magic]

No-ones swapping a top 10 pick for Goose surely?

What about pick 9 + 2nd rounder plus Montagna, enough for the Eagles?

I'd hate to see Goose at any other Club but StKilda.

For the sake of the discussion, who were the top 10 draft paicks from last season and how many of them would you swap directly for Goose today?

No point going back 2 or 3 years because you are no longer comparing an 'untried' draft paick with an established player.

[True Blue Sainter]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

That's what I said Babyblues!! If you're gonna lose your number 1 forward, then you don't also want to lose the young kid who's bound to replace him as well!!

[stinger]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

you wish....why would a player like judd want to go to a team that is a perennial loser ffs......get real...no.... get a life....

[ausfatcat]

How did we get Hamill and gehrig then?

[Mr Magic]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

you wish....why would a player like judd want to go to a team that is a perennial loser ffs......get real...no.... get a life....

I believe that part of the deal offered by Carlscum to Judd whilst he was touring around Victoria on Pratt's jet was to do with life/opportunities after football at Visy? Maybe they'll use the VodaFone sponsorship they are apparently pinching from us for Judd?

[Richter]

Having said already that I don't think we could afford to fit Judd under our cap, well, perhaps with some creativity we could........

- we may have some dough left over from this year's retirements/resignings - G-train, Thommo retiring vs new deals for Roo, Dal, Kosi, Sam. (+200k)

- don't have to pay a new 1st round draft pick next year (+100k)

- need to trade a player to get lower top ten pick e.g. X/Goose/? (+250k)

- need to give another player to WCE e.g. Raph (+150k)

This would give us 600k next year to spend on Judd.

Not enough I hear you say for a $1m a year player. True, but in the following year with Harvey and Hamill likely retiring that would free up a hell of a lot more ($750k?) a large proportion of which could be spent on a backended contract on Judd.

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HOWEVER, is giving up your 1st round pick + two players and $1m a year of your salary cap too expensive for any club - Yes, he's the best player in the comp. BUT he currently has a dodgy groin.

Whoever does pick him up it will be a MASSIVE punt.

[TheBabyBlues]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

That's what I said Babyblues!! If you're gonna lose your number 1 forward, then you don't also want to lose the young kid who's bound to replace him as well!!

Kennedy was taken at pick 4 too. So essentially WCE get 30-odd years of top 5 pick players and we get an injured judd for what 10 years max! Doesn't add up IMO.

Kennedy would fill a need the eagles have and he is a WA boy so it makes sense. But not if we're losing fev as well.

Kennedy + pick 3 + pick 20? Sure. But if we have to trade fev to get that other pick the eagles want then thanks, but no thanks.

[ausfatcat]

Judd's not worth 2 players in our 22 and our top draft pick. You have to remember we have to replace those players as well....


May be to other clubs but not us.

[TheBabyBlues]

Read in the Sun today its looking more and more likely Judd will be coming back to Vic. Although its irrelevant to the Saints I was just wondering what team you think will snap him up and how?

This is my guess....

Bulldogs Receive - Brendan Fevola
Eagles Receive - Kennedy, Pick 3 (Carlton) , Pick 6 (Bulldogs)
Carlton Receive - Chris Judd

I think this deal is pretty close, but i dont think we can afford to lose both kennedy AND fevola at the same time. Also think bulldogs need to pay more than just 1 pick for fev.

Perhaps...
Eagles get pick 3 and pick 5 (from dogs) + player (Scotland? having contract issues)
Carlton get Judd + player from dogs (preferably a runner)
Dogs get Fev

you wish....why would a player like judd want to go to a team that is a perennial loser ffs......get real...no.... get a life....

I believe that part of the deal offered by Carlscum to Judd whilst he was touring around Victoria on Pratt's jet was to do with life/opportunities after football at Visy? Maybe they'll use the VodaFone sponsorship they are apparently pinching from us for Judd?

Lets face it Judd is coming to melbourne. He will demand a fair trade for eagles and a high price tag. Any incentives he can get will also help.

Carlton has more picks, more room in the cap and more opportunities for incentives (via Pratt and Visy) than any other melbourne team. You'd think that we would have to be the favoured team to secure Judd based on all that information.

The only reason he wouldn't want to come to Carlton is if he thought of Carlton in a similar light to stinger. Somehow i dont think anyone can top stinger in that department.

[stinger]

don't get too smug you little scum lover

[Eastern]

Judd would also command a salary of $1.2Mill in the 1st of a 3 or 4 yr deal increasing up to about $1.6Mill in the final yr. That's a fair whack out of any salary cap.

If he was to go to Carlton, how are they going to fit him, Kruezer, Gibbs, Murphy, Walker and all their other early picks under the cap? !!

[Dan Warna]

yeah this was inevitable when he came down with injury and WCE offered him a reduced contract based on incentives and games played.

Collingwood and carlton have offered him 1m plus packages and up to 5 years.

WCE will take 2 round 1 draft picks, one in the top 5.

its 50/50 whether Judd will be back to his best, eitherway he will be a very good player instead of the no.1 player in the competition.

[ausfatcat]

the bonus of this would mean that Carlton would effectively be out of the running for maguire, saving picks and money for Judd.

[TheBabyBlues]

Judd would also command a salary of $1.2Mill in the 1st of a 3 or 4 yr deal increasing up to about $1.6Mill in the final yr. That's a fair whack out of any salary cap.

If he was to go to Carlton, how are they going to fit him, Kruezer, Gibbs, Murphy, Walker and all their other early picks under the cap? !!

How is anyone going to fit him under the cap?

The one thing we have going for us at the moment is the age of our list. They are all kids. The older blokes who were demanded larger salaries are going or gone. Kouta, and Lappin have retired. Whitnall may be on the way out. Fev may be traded too.

IMO we would heavily front load judds contract to take into account the list growth later. Get as much of judds contract out of the way now before all those kids demand the higher salaries.

Then hope that we can play the loyalty card and ask them all to play for less for a chance at (hopefully sustained) success. Worked for the lions and is working for you guys.