Today's scuttlebutt from Caro

[Teflon]

Geez Melbourne have hasd some drinks from the well.......

[meher baba]

You dont present "argument" you present your opinion as FACT - you did say wed think twice on getting rid of B Voss because of M Voss - I and many others laughed at the ridiculous comment and now your trying to suggest you meant something else and you were right?

Typical of you Teflon: I have now asked you twice why my suggestion about Brett Voss was wrong or laughable, and you have no answer.

The reason that you constantly abuse most of the other people on this forum is because you are incapable of arguing your case.

You just harp on and on with the same old repetitive garbage: GT was an appalling coach, Lyon is wonderful, the players constantly let the club down, etc. Just assertion, no argument

[meher baba]

You dont present "argument" you present your opinion as FACT - you did say wed think twice on getting rid of B Voss because of M Voss - I and many others laughed at the ridiculous comment and now your trying to suggest you meant something else and you were right?

Typical of you Teflon: I have now asked you twice why my suggestion about Brett Voss was wrong or laughable, and you have no answer.

The reason that you constantly abuse most of the other people on this forum is because you are incapable of arguing your case.

You just harp on and on with the same old repetitive garbage: GT was an appalling coach, Lyon is wonderful, the players constantly let the club down, etc. Just assertion, no argument

My apologies Teflon. I have just read through the (now closed) thread titled "hmmm, interesting reading" and it is clear that you obviously don't realise that you spend your entire time on this forum hurling juvenile abuse at other posters. Indeed, you try to project this fault onto others and even have the astonishing hide to call for them to be banned from the forum!!!

You are clearly not the full packet of biscuits and I am now going to start honouring my commitment to pay no further attention to any of your posts, even when they directly attack mine.

See you.

[ausfatcat]

As for the Raph part I had heard Bevo wanted Troy Chaplin but was overruled on Raph.

For all I know it could be cr@p as they may not have been in the same draft.

2003 Draft

Round Pick Club Player Name Club From Dob Height Weight
Priority 1 Western Bulldogs Adam Cooney West Adelaide 30/09/85 186 81
Priority 2 Carlton Andrew Walker Bendigo Pioneers 18/05/85 189 83
Priority 3 Melbourne Colin Sylvia Bendigo Pioneers 8/11/85 184 85
1 4 Western Bulldogs Farren Ray Peel Thunder 23/03/86 183 74
1 5 Melbourne Brock Mclean Calder Cannons 11/03/86 183 86
1 6 Essendon Kepler Bradley West Perth 13/11/85 198 86
1 7 Geelong Kane Tenace Murray Bushrangers 4/07/85 182 78
1 8 St Kilda Raphael Clarke St Marys (Nt) 24/09/85 188 77 1 9 Kangaroos David Trotter Calder Cannons 4/03/86 185 80
1 10 Fremantle Ryley Dunn Murray Bushrangers 7/10/85 184 83
1 11 West Coast Beau Waters West Adelaide 30/03/86 187 85
1 12 Fremantle Ryan Murphy Gippsland Power 24/05/85 192 81
1 13 Essendon Brent Stanton Northern Knights 1/05/86 181 78
1 14 Adelaide Fergus Watts Sandringham Dragons 21/09/85 197 86
1 15 Port Adelaide Troy Chaplin North Ballarat Rebels 23/02/86 194 89
1

6 months before the draft raph was being touted as a top 3 pick, then two things happened 1. he got injured 2. he told all the clubs he only wanted to play with the saints.

Si i'd say it was BS about Chaplin the general concenus was we did very very well to get raph at that pick.

[saintsRrising]

Si i'd say it was BS about Chaplin the general concenus was we did very very well to get raph at that pick.

I was only answering Joffa Burn's question about whether they were in the same draft. I did not say the rumour was true.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

To me, all the claims that GT stuffed up the list are just a load of claptrap. It was Bevo who made the decisions anyway (ask Bevo: and why would he lie given that they are being so heavily criticised nowadays and GT would be a great scapegoat). All the decisions made - except perhaps Fergus Watts (and do you or B4E or the other critics have any real proof that GT was personally responsible for this decision?) - were totally justified on the basis of the information available at the time. To extend your Tattslotto analogy: criticising the selection of the likes of Guerra, Ackland, McGough, McQualter, Gwilt, Sweeney, Raymond, etc. with mid-range draft picks is like criticising someone for picking the wrong Tattslotto numbers.

FANTASTIC POST.

And you've explained and demonstrated to me perfectly why I feel a dirty any time I read a GT post from the triumverate, and foolish any time I respond. While I know that they're zealots on the subject, that the above could garner 7 responses from 3 posters before your next installment which never actually address your point (one claims to answer it, but doesn't provide any reference constituting proof, just more hypothesis) demonstrates a degree of emotional investment in the subject that is simply amazing.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion on our departed coach, and his legacy. Everyone will of course have their favorites to blame (I choose my great grandparents, the Murphys)... it's nice to see the triumverate made to scramble every now and then though.

[saintsRrising]

. To extend your Tattslotto analogy: criticising the selection of the likes of Guerra, Ackland, McGough, McQualter, Gwilt, Sweeney, Raymond, etc. with mid-range draft picks is like criticising someone for picking the wrong Tattslotto numbers.
.

???? Well that may well be the system we used recently....lucky dip selection.

Statistically all Tattslotto numbers have an equal chance of being picked out.....so lucky dip selction is as valid as any other.


however players are not Tattslotto Ball.....and there are many factors that can be aseesed in their selection...or not.

*playing histories
*whether others think they are duds
*medical histories
*their chareacter or lack of it....



When the Saints drafted Howard...St mart gave JB a huge bake....and at that time I though while St Mart was being a bit hard that he had some valid points.

From what I have learnt since then by talking to people as well as on reflection is that St Mart was right on the money.

JB wasa recruiter too driven by smokies....on only looking at football talent rather than looking at the whole package and also as to how football is now played.


I also gave St Marta bake when he got stuck into sweeney after only one game because of his "social" problems. Well I was wrong and St Mart was right...such problems should have been well known toa recruiter and been part of the process...and IF still perserved with then HUGE endeavours should have been put in place to mentor Seeeney. Such processes were not. Now Sweeney may still well make it.....but if he does it will be more due to luck that due to good recruitment and devloment processes.

If GT did fully delegate things to JB...then more fool him.....and yes you are then right about our drafting having become Tattslotto...a lucky dip approach.

[Saints94]

her facts are worser then mine

[rodgerfox]

her facts are worser then mine

Brilliantly put.

[saintly]

To me, all the claims that GT stuffed up the list are just a load of claptrap. It was Bevo who made the decisions anyway (ask Bevo: and why would he lie given that they are being so heavily criticised nowadays and GT would be a great scapegoat). All the decisions made - except perhaps Fergus Watts (and do you or B4E or the other critics have any real proof that GT was personally responsible for this decision?) - were totally justified on the basis of the information available at the time. To extend your Tattslotto analogy: criticising the selection of the likes of Guerra, Ackland, McGough, McQualter, Gwilt, Sweeney, Raymond, etc. with mid-range draft picks is like criticising someone for picking the wrong Tattslotto numbers.

FANTASTIC POST.

And you've explained and demonstrated to me perfectly why I feel a dirty any time I read a GT post from the triumverate, and foolish any time I respond. While I know that they're zealots on the subject, that the above could garner 7 responses from 3 posters before your next installment which never actually address your point (one claims to answer it, but doesn't provide any reference constituting proof, just more hypothesis) demonstrates a degree of emotional investment in the subject that is simply amazing.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion on our departed coach, and his legacy. Everyone will of course have their favorites to blame (I choose my great grandparents, the Murphys)... it's nice to see the triumverate made to scramble every now and then though.

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control? maybe there should have been input from the coach. why pick mcgough? etc.

[JeffDunne]

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control?

Ask his boss.

[Teflon]

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control? maybe there should have been input from the coach. why pick mcgough? etc.

Its called abbrogation of your responsibiltiies as a senior coach on a squillion a year.

Face it Beveridge was the perfect foil for Thomas ...Grant spun it as "I freed John",.,,,,,what he really meant was "I just bought a patsy".

Sheedy at Esendon - paid the ultimate price and had the responsibility for the list........not our man Grant.......his lovers will have you believe he was on holidays ( unpaid ofcourse...)

[SENsei]

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control? maybe there should have been input from the coach. why pick mcgough? etc.

Its called abbrogation of your responsibiltiies as a senior coach on a squillion a year.

Face it Beveridge was the perfect foil for Thomas ...Grant spun it as "I freed John",.,,,,,what he really meant was "I just bought a patsy".

Sheedy at Esendon - paid the ultimate price and had the responsibility for the list........not our man Grant.......his lovers will have you believe he was on holidays ( unpaid ofcourse...)

Which is just another reason why Roddy McButterss needs to go. Where does the buck stop?

Grantley Thomas was an employee operating under guidelines of the board. Well, who allowed the monster to grow?

The Rodster needs to hop on his dragster and hit the roadster.

[Teflon]

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control? maybe there should have been input from the coach. why pick mcgough? etc.

Its called abbrogation of your responsibiltiies as a senior coach on a squillion a year.

Face it Beveridge was the perfect foil for Thomas ...Grant spun it as "I freed John",.,,,,,what he really meant was "I just bought a patsy".

Sheedy at Esendon - paid the ultimate price and had the responsibility for the list........not our man Grant.......his lovers will have you believe he was on holidays ( unpaid ofcourse...)

Which is just another reason why Roddy McButterss needs to go. Where does the buck stop?

Grantley Thomas was an employee operating under guidelines of the board. Well, who allowed the monster to grow?

The Rodster needs to hop on his dragster and hit the roadster.

In fairness to Butters and the Board they gave the monster his head to run a footy dept and I believe if a Board is paying a coach 500k a year they ought to give him his head - all sides do. The Board ARE responsible for reigning the monster in which IMO they are guilty of doing to late. That said the Board havent come out saying we are NOT responsible for Grant Thomas or the sides performances - unlike the rubbish we hear from Thomas that recruitment was all a Beveridge issue....you cant have it both ways........its like owning a car yard...then moaning that youve got no control over the cars in the yard....lame.

[aussierules0k]

[rodgerfox]

if Beveridge had total control maybe the question should be. why was beverdige in total control? maybe there should have been input from the coach. why pick mcgough? etc.

Its called abbrogation of your responsibiltiies as a senior coach on a squillion a year.

Face it Beveridge was the perfect foil for Thomas ...Grant spun it as "I freed John",.,,,,,what he really meant was "I just bought a patsy".

Sheedy at Esendon - paid the ultimate price and had the responsibility for the list........not our man Grant.......his lovers will have you believe he was on holidays ( unpaid ofcourse...)

Which is just another reason why Roddy McButterss needs to go. Where does the buck stop?

Grantley Thomas was an employee operating under guidelines of the board. Well, who allowed the monster to grow?

The Rodster needs to hop on his dragster and hit the roadster.

In fairness to Butters and the Board they gave the monster his head to run a footy dept and I believe if a Board is paying a coach 500k a year they ought to give him his head - all sides do. The Board ARE responsible for reigning the monster in which IMO they are guilty of doing to late. That said the Board havent come out saying we are NOT responsible for Grant Thomas or the sides performances - unlike the rubbish we hear from Thomas that recruitment was all a Beveridge issue....you cant have it both ways........its like owning a car yard...then moaning that youve got no control over the cars in the yard....lame.

Why does 'Grant' end up being the main topic in every one of your posts?

Surely you're aware there are more important matters at the moment?

He's gone. Move on.