Today's scuttlebutt from Caro

[n1ck]

Wheres your little sausage dog, you socialite.

[cwrcyn]

Sounds like Thommo is trying to get back some of that money he had to pay back to Butterss. I suppose he's got 8 kids to put through private schools, so he'll need every bit of it.

Just another stinking episode in the St Kilda annus horribilus.

Didn't Alves try to sue the club after he got sacked?


Gee, I don't know who or what to believe any more. Is Thomas the Machiavelian character or misunderstood leader of men? Is Butterss a snake oil salesman or new age all round good guy?

Maybe they both stink. Thomas appears to roundly disliked. Maybe there is a reason why he's been shunted out of so many jobs. They have both said some things this year that has me confused about who they really are and what they actually represent.

Basically I've had enough of this whole saga. I'll be happy when 2008 rolls around, so that we can all put 2007 to bed.

Oh, and by the way, I think htey both voted for John 'Bonsai' Howard.

Perhaps therein lies the problem. Perhaps they were just part of Johnny's 'comfortable' middle Australia and they inhabited a smug little world.

[evertonfc]

Oh, and by the way, I think htey both voted for John 'Bonsai' Howard.

The Latham Diaries, p291

What an incredibly apt description. I love how politically aware this board has become

[santazzi]

Please help me...........in my quarter of a century or so of following footy i do not have any recollection of an ex official of a foot ball club causing so much heart ache to the club they claim to love..........Has there been anything like the Thomas/STK issue in any foot ball club in the past??

[evertonfc]

Please help me...........in my quarter of a century or so of following footy i do not have any recollection of an ex official of a foot ball club causing so much heart ache to the club they claim to love..........Has there been anything like the Thomas/STK issue in any foot ball club in the past??

Depends if you're Protestant or Catholic, really.

[santazzi]

Please help me...........in my quarter of a century or so of following footy i do not have any recollection of an ex official of a foot ball club causing so much heart ache to the club they claim to love..........Has there been anything like the Thomas/STK issue in any foot ball club in the past??

Depends if you're Protestant or Catholic, really.

Please explain.......Evertonfc

Liverpoolfc

[Devilhead]

I just shaved my neighbour's poodle

Now i am gunna make a wig

[Teflon]

Thomas hasn't let the club settle since he left IMO.

His timing this time is perfect for adding to the already tense board spill.
The hatred from Thommo to Butters is just deplorable, expecially when it is spilled so publically. Get your act together boys and take it out of the media.

So this is what it is like to love StKilda FC and never do anything to undermine it.

Brilliant post - sums it up for me also.

The interesting thing about Thomas is the timing...it indicates he also has dibs on getting involved down track again in the club in some fashion.......which would be a disgrace if that occured.........hes surely just giving the little Board challenge a helping hand.......absoluetly pathetic and true to form from an absolute egomaniac, meglomaniac nutcase who - lets face it - got kicked out of Nths coaching box cause he couldnt be trusted (strong whispers he undermined the club there). He then leeches on to a self made success in Rod Butters (where is Grants self-made fortune???? cause we are told by his love children how smart he is???.......facts are he leeches off other people). Grant burns people to serve Grant - its common knowledge many SENIOR players were not sad to see him go and Burke has NO time for him why?????? with his corporate spin and constant bleating on about how he was outcoached- was refreshing the first time........frightening the seventh....its no wonder.

Yes Butters will go - he'll have to and yes Grant will win his private war - even AFTER declaring (once he got a better deal for himself on the $1m he owed his one time friend..) that "Rocket was the man to take the club to the level..."...I guess its just "good timing" that Grant starts his dribble once the season is 5 mins over.......Board challenge rumbles abound......and his one time friend is no longer of any use.....and I guess if the club is stupid enough to pay him out and accept he was under "duress" (FFS!)...why not make a bit of cash along the way?

Biggest loser in all this? - Grants declared "true love" the St Kilda FC. Spare us anymore lies Grant and stick to attemtping to justify your relevance on radio you dishonest, disgraceful excuse for a person.

[Oh When the Saints]

sure...but can you just imagine the sh!t that grant could ...and probably will...heap on the club should he lose his action for the hundred grand.......there would be nothing to stop him......

That would lose him the respect of a lot of people.

I can understand where Thomas is coming from. If he genuinely believes he is owed money (and I wouldn't put it past Butterss to have made his "undermining the club" claims earlier in the year to prevent GT's payout), then I empathise with him wanting to get it out of the club.

It's a lot of money we are talking about ... most on here are passionate Sainters, but if you believed you were owed 100k by the club ... it would be difficult not to take it as far as possible.


Thomas' timing is bad, but then no time would be good for this.


Basically what it highlights is that Rod must go ... unfortunately, whether or not he is a good President, his relationship with GT is affecting his role as President and the club itself. For this reason he must step down.

Until both Punch and Judy are excommunicated then we won't be able to move forward.


I'm not happy with what GT is doing, but I don't really blame him in a way.

A lot of my respect for him was long gone before this, so it doesn't really change my opinion, but I can understand his action more on this issue than I can on others.


Basically with the best interests of the club at heart, both men would walk away.

Unfortunately Rod's ego and GT's ego prevent them from doing this, and the club is going to suffer publicly as a result.

[barks4eva]

Brilliant post - sums it up for me also.

The interesting thing about Thomas is the timing...it indicates he also has dibs on getting involved down track again in the club in some fashion.......which would be a disgrace if that occured.........hes surely just giving the little Board challenge a helping hand.......absoluetly pathetic and true to form from an absolute egomaniac, meglomaniac nutcase who - lets face it - got kicked out of Nths coaching box cause he couldnt be trusted (strong whispers he undermined the club there). He then leeches on to a self made success in Rod Butters (where is Grants self-made fortune???? cause we are told by his love children how smart he is???.......facts are he leeches off other people). Grant burns people to serve Grant - its common knowledge many SENIOR players were not sad to see him go and Burke has NO time for him why?????? with his corporate spin and constant bleating on about how he was outcoached- was refreshing the first time........frightening the seventh....its no wonder.

Yes Butters will go - he'll have to and yes Grant will win his private war - even AFTER declaring (once he got a better deal for himself on the $1m he owed his one time friend..) that "Rocket was the man to take the club to the level..."...I guess its just "good timing" that Grant starts his dribble once the season is 5 mins over.......Board challenge rumbles abound......and his one time friend is no longer of any use.....and I guess if the club is stupid enough to pay him out and accept he was under "duress" (FFS!)...why not make a bit of cash along the way?

Biggest loser in all this? - Grants declared "true love" the St Kilda FC. Spare us anymore lies Grant and stick to attemtping to justify your relevance on radio you dishonest, disgraceful excuse for a person.

Teflon your posts are so refreshing, ain't too many with a clue around this neck of the woods

DITTO 2 every word

[meher baba]

Brilliant post - sums it up for me also.

The interesting thing about Thomas is the timing...it indicates he also has dibs on getting involved down track again in the club in some fashion.......which would be a disgrace if that occured.........hes surely just giving the little Board challenge a helping hand.......absoluetly pathetic and true to form from an absolute egomaniac, meglomaniac nutcase who - lets face it - got kicked out of Nths coaching box cause he couldnt be trusted (strong whispers he undermined the club there). He then leeches on to a self made success in Rod Butters (where is Grants self-made fortune???? cause we are told by his love children how smart he is???.......facts are he leeches off other people). Grant burns people to serve Grant - its common knowledge many SENIOR players were not sad to see him go and Burke has NO time for him why?????? with his corporate spin and constant bleating on about how he was outcoached- was refreshing the first time........frightening the seventh....its no wonder.

Yes Butters will go - he'll have to and yes Grant will win his private war - even AFTER declaring (once he got a better deal for himself on the $1m he owed his one time friend..) that "Rocket was the man to take the club to the level..."...I guess its just "good timing" that Grant starts his dribble once the season is 5 mins over.......Board challenge rumbles abound......and his one time friend is no longer of any use.....and I guess if the club is stupid enough to pay him out and accept he was under "duress" (FFS!)...why not make a bit of cash along the way?

Biggest loser in all this? - Grants declared "true love" the St Kilda FC. Spare us anymore lies Grant and stick to attemtping to justify your relevance on radio you dishonest, disgraceful excuse for a person.

Teflon your posts are so refreshing, ain't too many with a clue around this neck of the woods

DITTO 2 every word

What is it with you two? Where does this violent obsession with Thomas come from?

What conceivable reason can there be for you both to hate him so much: especially when it is patently clear to the rest of us that (unlike, for example, SENSaintsational, who knows him personally) you know nothing about him other than what we all read, hear and see in the media?

As far as I know, he hasn't committed any acts of genocide, or major fraud against widows and orphans, or committed Australia to a pointless and harmful war in Iraq.

He's just a football coach who - in circumstances the likes of which have probably never been seen before in the history of the AFL - has been sacked after 5 1/2 years at the helm in which he led his team from the bottom of the table to three successive finals appearances: giving the likes of me and no doubt thousands of other supporters our first ever glimpse of what it might be like to follow an AFL team whose rightful place was in the top half of the table rather than typically in the bottom 4-6.

You've both got so much vitriol and scorn to fling at the man. Yet if we equate GT's contribution to the club as a hurricane, have either of you even contributed so much a fart?

GT clearly has enormous, Shakespearian faults as a human being and probably as a coach as well. But your beloved Ross Lyon has a long way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath.

And as for the coaching (or probably any other) achievements of Teflon and B4E, I suspect we are talking 6/8 of 5/10 of SFA.

[saintsRrising]

I had dinner with an ex club official tonight...very interesting on a number of fronts..

GT obviously very concerned about maximising $$ to himself while for example expecting the long serving head trainer to take a 10% pay cut.

[Shaggy]

I had dinner with an ex club official tonight...very interesting on a number of fronts..

GT obviously very concerned about maximising $$ to himself while for example expecting the long serving head trainer to take a 10% pay cut.

Thats very human SR. Not an attribute to admire but very typical of many organistations. If the Board is tight then the MD will be under pressure to cut costs to justify own remuneration increase.

I blame the Board first and then the MD.

Unfortunately its more a norm than an exception. Both the Board and the MD are to blame because ultimately you lose the quality staff (which appears to have happened to the Saints).

[JeffDunne]

I'm still waiting for that evidence too that justified Rod's outbusrt on SEN this year (not to mention Archie ringing the radio station to find out who GT might be speaking to on air).

[asiu]

Yes Butters will go - he'll have to and yes Grant will win his private war - even AFTER declaring (once he got a better deal for himself on the $1m he owed his one time friend..) that "Rocket was the man to take the club to the level..."

that would have been a repayment of the honour .....that rocket so genuinely gave to him in july '06 wouldnt it ?

St Kilda’s President Rod Butterss said of this achievement, “Thomo is a natural leader who is extremely passionate about the St Kilda Football Club and the sustained success we will achieve at the Club. We are never afraid to push boundaries at the Club and Thomo is always open to fresh ideas that can take the playing group and the St Kilda Football Club towards our common goal.

[Shaggy]

I'm still waiting for that evidence too that justified Rod's outbusrt on SEN this year (not to mention Archie ringing the radio station to find out who GT might be speaking to on air).

Lol I just want to know what GT has done which is so terrible?

He was sacked having taken the team to the top quarter with a budget in the bottom quarter.

RB then proceded to sue him when he knows he has no income because he has just sacked the guy. Its fairly low to try to f*ck someone when they are down.

RB then banned him from the annual dinner and anything to do with people he has worked with the past 5 years.

GT had a chance at a CEO postiion of a listed company which RB then scuttled with his outburst.

In the meantime GT's only public outbursts were that he would have put Milne on the trading table, he would not have played G-Train & Milne interstate and Goose runs a straight line. Hardly devastating stuff.

I understand his public outburst at RB in defence because he had no choice.

I respect GT for trying to f*ck RB privately. I doubt I could have held myself back publicly as he has. The law suit is just deserts even if it is nonsense which it may not be depending on which lawyer you talk to. Timing of the law suit is however impecable to achieve the objective IMO.

[joffaboy]

Lol I just want to know what GT has done which is so terrible?

Apparently he votes Liberal

[rodgerfox]

Please help me...........in my quarter of a century or so of following footy i do not have any recollection of an ex official of a foot ball club causing so much heart ache to the club they claim to love..........Has there been anything like the Thomas/STK issue in any foot ball club in the past??

I don't see Thomas creating one iota of heartache for the StKilda Football Club.

Plenty of heartache for Butterss and some Board members, but nothing at all for the club.

People get confused between individuals and the club.


Rod Butterss is not the club.

He's a guy who grabbed the club with a good team of people and pointed it in the right direction.

Now he's a guy who has lost the plot. The plot being what his role is, and what the goal of him and his Board is.

[stinger]

Thomas' timing is bad, but then no time would be good for this.


Basically what it highlights is that Rod must go ... unfortunately, whether or not he is a good President, his relationship with GT is affecting his role as President and the club itself. For this reason he must step down.



I'm not happy with what GT is doing, but I don't really blame him in a way.

I can understand his action more on this issue than I can on others.


Basically with the best interests of the club at heart, both men would walk away.

Unfortunately Rod's ego and GT's ego prevent them from doing this, and the club is going to suffer publicly as a result.

...i agree 100% with the comments that i have left from your original post......

[stinger]

Brilliant post - sums it up for me also.

The interesting thing about Thomas is the timing...it indicates he also has dibs on getting involved down track again in the club in some fashion.......which would be a disgrace if that occured.........hes surely just giving the little Board challenge a helping hand.......absoluetly pathetic and true to form from an absolute egomaniac, meglomaniac nutcase who - lets face it - got kicked out of Nths coaching box cause he couldnt be trusted (strong whispers he undermined the club there). He then leeches on to a self made success in Rod Butters (where is Grants self-made fortune???? cause we are told by his love children how smart he is???.......facts are he leeches off other people). Grant burns people to serve Grant - its common knowledge many SENIOR players were not sad to see him go and Burke has NO time for him why?????? with his corporate spin and constant bleating on about how he was outcoached- was refreshing the first time........frightening the seventh....its no wonder.

Yes Butters will go - he'll have to and yes Grant will win his private war - even AFTER declaring (once he got a better deal for himself on the $1m he owed his one time friend..) that "Rocket was the man to take the club to the level..."...I guess its just "good timing" that Grant starts his dribble once the season is 5 mins over.......Board challenge rumbles abound......and his one time friend is no longer of any use.....and I guess if the club is stupid enough to pay him out and accept he was under "duress" (FFS!)...why not make a bit of cash along the way?

Biggest loser in all this? - Grants declared "true love" the St Kilda FC. Spare us anymore lies Grant and stick to attemtping to justify your relevance on radio you dishonest, disgraceful excuse for a person.

Teflon your posts are so refreshing, ain't too many with a clue around this neck of the woods

DITTO 2 every word

What is it with you two? Where does this violent obsession with Thomas come from?

What conceivable reason can there be for you both to hate him so much: especially when it is patently clear to the rest of us that (unlike, for example, SENSaintsational, who knows him personally) you know nothing about him other than what we all read, hear and see in the media?

As far as I know, he hasn't committed any acts of genocide, or major fraud against widows and orphans, or committed Australia to a pointless and harmful war in Iraq.

He's just a football coach who - in circumstances the likes of which have probably never been seen before in the history of the AFL - has been sacked after 5 1/2 years at the helm in which he led his team from the bottom of the table to three successive finals appearances: giving the likes of me and no doubt thousands of other supporters our first ever glimpse of what it might be like to follow an AFL team whose rightful place was in the top half of the table rather than typically in the bottom 4-6.

You've both got so much vitriol and scorn to fling at the man. Yet if we equate GT's contribution to the club as a hurricane, have either of you even contributed so much a fart?

GT clearly has enormous, Shakespearian faults as a human being and probably as a coach as well. But your beloved Ross Lyon has a long way to go before he can be mentioned in the same breath.

And as for the coaching (or probably any other) achievements of Teflon and B4E, I suspect we are talking 6/8 of 5/10 of SFA.

great post...i think that those two are in a mutual exclusive admiration society........no one else would bother to join it though.....

[stinger]

Lol I just want to know what GT has done which is so terrible?

Apparently he votes Liberal

so do i .....

...funny that....we have a lot in common......

[ausfatcat]

edited out

[saintsRrising]

Thats very human SR. Not an attribute to admire but very typical of many organistations. .

True...


What is also very human is being pi***ed off that you have been dismissed....and the natural reaction to try and demonstrate that you in fact were doing a good job.

I orginally thought that all the angst from just from someonea little bit biter and agrey about having been dispensed with......which is understandable but the public actiosn are deeply in conflict with GT's assurances that he lowved to Club and would not damaging it.

After what I was told alst night....and have pieced together with what others who have had direct dealings with GT have said is now a quite different view.

However what is not very human.....is that the ex-club official has indicated that the main reason for the continued turmoil is that GT is obsessed with ensuring that RB goes down the gurgler and is waging a campaigm publically and privately to achieve.......and does not care if the St Kilda Football Club is trampled in the process.

ie GT is not seeking to undermine the Club, BUT is seeking to undermine RB........and does not care if the Club is impaired in the process....collateral damage to what he seeks to achieve.

When you examine such a statement as that and measure it against with what has been occuring you can form the opinion that the ex-official's view, based upon inside knowldege, is probably very much the case.




For example...GT is a self professed EXPERT in individual workplace contracts, terms and conditions etc. Not only did he do the players, but also did the trainers, coaches etc....Yet he now is playing naive that he did not understand his own terms and conditions and that having signed a stat dec that he had taken all of his entitlements that he is now mistaken. Something does not ring true. As an expert he should have known what he was signing and the implications of it. OR his he meant no to not be an expert in this area.....and if so why did he demand to be involved in this area at the club.




However if you for example, have a motive that an alternate President got up, any alternate President....would it not be a handy thing to see the guy that you want to go embroiled in Court Proceedings???



And for anyone that believes GT does not hold grudges....just revisit the ongoing antagonism between him and AFL's CEO.

[meher baba]

sRr, you make some reasonable points, but your criticisms of GT could just as easily be directed against RB.

GT could make a defensible case (which is not to say that you, or even I, would agree with it) that RB is currently taking the club down the toliet and, even if GT's actions directed against him might cause some short-term collateral damage, they would be for the betterment of the club in the long run.

Well, the decision to remove GT as coach was taken more or less on the same sort of grounds. It certainly has had a bad impact on the club's public image: memberships are down and sponsors have been luke warm and I think both of these problems are related to the events of September 2006. It also led to our going backwards during an adjustment period while the new coach and the team got used to each other (and those of you who deny this are having yourselves on IMO). It even created a risk that some key players might leave: I'm pretty certain that Riewoldt seriously thought about doing so for a while there.

As I believe Leon Trotsky once said, "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs".

I don't think GT is consciously trying in any way to damage the club. He must firmly believe that the removal of RB will be of benefit to the club. He might be wrong, he might be vindictive, but I think it is unfair to accuse him of being disloyal, as some are doing.

BTW, GT might indeed hold a grudge against Demetriou, but I don't think anyone can say that that isn't a two-way relationship: and, because of the position he is in, Demetriou could - and has - done much more to hurt GT and the club than GT could ever do in return.

[saintsRrising]

sRr, you make some reasonable points, but your criticisms of GT could just as easily be directed against RB.

.

MB...you miss the point...this is not the point that I was making...BUT rather what I have been told is occuring.


From what I have been told...I then have put 2 + 2 together with other things I have been told.......plus seen for myself in the media etc.


The hypothesis was not mine...but I now agree with it.