darren jolly

[cowboy18]

DARREN JOLLY EATS UNBORN BABIES!!!!

And he looks quite short too. Not sure we need a midget ruckman (unless the poppin mama in picture is abou 2.2m tall

[Sainternist]

F*** jolly!

should be scouting for long term prospects, not these tempory fill ins

[saintsRrising]

Three way deal?

Jolly from Sydney to St Kilda
Fevola from Carlton to Sydney
Ferguson & 3rd round pick from St Kilda to Carlton

Carlton need a backman. Sydney need a forward for when Barry goes all Mundine on them. Ferg can't crack it with us.

Love to get Jolly.

Why would Ferguson have any trade value...???

We delisted him last year and no one took him.....


Fergus Watts is about the only player on our list that we can afford to delist that would have trade value.


The swans paid a reasonably high price...was it pick 11?????....and Jolly is in his prime now.


Secondly...with ratten in charge I don't think Fev is going anywhere.

[evertonfc]

Three way deal?

Jolly from Sydney to St Kilda
Fevola from Carlton to Sydney
Ferguson & 3rd round pick from St Kilda to Carlton

Carlton need a backman. Sydney need a forward for when Barry goes all Mundine on them. Ferg can't crack it with us.

Love to get Jolly.

Yeah, I'd love to hear what Carlton think about getting a 3rd round pick and a highly questionable defender for one of the game's top full forwards

[SENsei]

Three way deal?

Jolly from Sydney to St Kilda
Fevola from Carlton to Sydney
Ferguson & 3rd round pick from St Kilda to Carlton

Carlton need a backman. Sydney need a forward for when Barry goes all Mundine on them. Ferg can't crack it with us.

Love to get Jolly.

Yeah, I'd love to hear what Carlton think about getting a 3rd round pick and a highly questionable defender for one of the game's top full forwards

At least someone saw the irony I intended!!

[Oh When the Saints]

Barry Brooks + 3rd round pick = Darren Jolly


Swans need a replacement ruckman, and Roos would bet that he could turn Brooks around. Certainly he would see the ability in Brooks and I reckon would give him a real crack.

[Teflon]

No way Swans would take Barry Brooks 9who cant get games 5 yrs in at 2 clubs) and a 3rd rounder?

Geez people...they aint stupid.....you would HAVED to give them something of some value.

For me - Keep 1st round pick
Offer - Maguire, second round pick (Id almost throw in Brooks as sweetener ruck replacement cause I reckon hes on thin ice.....and IMO he still has talent)

We can cover a Maguire IMO and still get a quality mid with the first rounder.

[barneyboyz]

No way Swans would take Barry Brooks 9who cant get games 5 yrs in at 2 clubs) and a 3rd rounder?

Geez people...they aint stupid.....you would HAVED to give them something of some value.

For me - Keep 1st round pick
Offer - Maguire, second round pick (Id almost throw in Brooks as sweetener ruck replacement cause I reckon hes on thin ice.....and IMO he still has talent)

We can cover a Maguire IMO and still get a quality mid with the first rounder.

dangerous to play around with our backline, especially a key player.

I see where your at with Brooks, but he does look good leading straight at the pill from FF, good old fashioned type, get some little blokes at his feet and who knows?

[Dan Warna]

who cares about brooks when someone wants to ditch maguire.

he's been great till he busted his leg late last year, and was in very solid form.

with max looking at 2 to 3 seasons left, why give away a 10 year defender?

maguire will play another 200 games for st kilda.

give away maguire and you have fisher in a couple of years as our only developed tall backman, since the premature retirement of penny.

madness.

[fisher_fan]

I wouldn't risk losing goose. I would think the best win for st kilda and possibly for sydney out of this would be

Saints - Darren Jolly
Swans - Rix or Blake and a 2nd Round Pick

I strongly doubt that offering Ferguson would mean anything to the swans. Blake would fit in for the swans nicely i feel and surely we can afford to give up a second round pick to get Jolly. I think that with a strong ruckman the saints would have made the finals this year as it was defintley there downfall. Kosi did a great job but would have been better down forward a lot more, especially with Hamill out. With Jolly and Gardner rotating it would put an extra worry for the oppostion to worry about as both could rotate even if it was in the forward line. I would go all out to get Jolly, as much as the blues are for Judd.

[Teflon]

who cares about brooks when someone wants to ditch maguire.

he's been great till he busted his leg late last year, and was in very solid form.

with max looking at 2 to 3 seasons left, why give away a 10 year defender?

maguire will play another 200 games for st kilda.

give away maguire and you have fisher in a couple of years as our only developed tall backman, since the premature retirement of penny.

madness.

Maguire can be covered IMO. To me I actually agree with Grant Thomas...hes ok running in a straight line......on a mobile fwd he struggles...I actually believe he's lost on the last line of defence so as FB......no... and he doesnt spoil like Max....in the past hes been good as an attacking CHB but in a season or so for me Sam Gilbert could be potent doing the same role with better disposal and speed.

What you dont seem to get is there are other structural problems that IMO can be fixed IF we get a decent ruck. I believe Kosi is a very good FF option and want to see him given a chance to settle there...to me hes never really been given a role to settle into...nows his time - I dont want him rucking and would like a Gardiner/Jolley combo who I think we could get at least 3-4 yrs from...you dont get Jolley for Raymond or a Gwilt - doesnt happen.

[saintsRrising]

Saints - Darren Jolly
Swans - Rix or Blake and a 2nd Round Pick

.

????

Why do people keep putting up silly trades where we trade someone that is not best 22 and expect a best 22 player in return???

It is not going to happen.


SIX clubs evidently have shown initial interst in Jolly...which means that the Swans are going to expect some quality in return....Jolly at 26 is in his prime for a ruckmen.

[fisher_fan]

good on ya saintsrising. why dont we trade hayes, dal santo, ball and riedwolt to get him? more likely you think?

we couldnt afford to give up anyone other than blake or rix. do you expect the other six clubs to be offering players like a gibbs

[Dan Warna]

Im not sure SRS is advocating a trade in this thread, just pointing out the silliness of some suggestions.

you are not going to get a player with a can of coke, 2 levi and round 4 pick.

well maybe footscray, but realistically you have to offer like for like. unless oyu have them over a barrel (ie Rawlings, hamill, v2, etc through the PSD)

I certainly do not want to give away goose. IMO with a injury free preseason we are looking at a guy who prior to injury was blessed with a with a leap good enough to outruck fraser, to go toe to toe with hall, tredrea and J.Brown and the speed to run down Johncock, and still in his early 20s.

I think followers are basing his form on his rushed back early season form (brought back WAY TO EARLY) and his subsequent average form struggling with a relatively new game plan.

if he can recapture his preseason form we are talking a guy could be a 10 year AA CHB, compared to an ruckman who is slightly above average.

[maverick]

Some people on here are overrating Goose a fair bit.
Before he broke his leg last year he was poor and nowhere near the level of the previous year....

[redwhite&blackblood]

Would rather we picked up a kid. Was watching Glenelg vs Sturt from last week and saw some handy kids like Daniel Kirk (24yo 200cm 101kg), Mark Ruwoldt (20 180 84), Ruory Kirkby (20 192 89) from Glenelg. Also McDonald, Crane, Wark from Sturt all young boys who showed something. This is from only one game and obviously they may take time to develop to the senior level but after playing in the SANFL they seem more advanced than those from the TAC or VFL.

[wildgoose]

Sydney aren't stupid, Jolly is a number one ruckman, and a good one at that. They would want a first round draft pick for him, or possibly a second round, with a decent player thrown in, not someone like Brooks or Rix.

Would love to have Jolly here, because he is a quality ruckman, with years ahead of him, but it would be madness to give up our first round pick.

[fisher_fan]

the thing is we have enough kids at the moment, we need a developed ruckman more than anything. we probably would be in the top 5 for midfielders in the comp (ball, dal santo, hayes, montagna, fiora) and our forward line is always hearing praise (maybe not as much now gehrigs gone, but it is still a great line up with kosi and rooey) and our defence has really stepped up the past couple of years with the fishers and gram jumping in to help out hudghton and goose. we need a well developed ruckman to back up the injury prone gardiner. he would slot in nicely to the saints line up and surely there would be enough cash with gehrig gone. blake, watts and pick 2 perhaps? surely the swans would be happy to get that. we lost peter everitt for what turned out to be barry brooks in the end....you win some, you get flogged in others.

[saintsRrising]

good on ya saintsrising. why dont we trade hayes, dal santo, ball and riedwolt to get him? more likely you think?

we couldnt afford to give up anyone other than blake or rix. do you expect the other six clubs to be offering players like a gibbs

What I expect is that to get a deal done...that you must offer fair value to get fair value.


What we can afford to give is pretty irelevant.

We either have the purchase price or we don't. The Swans are not going to give asa "freebie"...



Go to a house auction this weekend for a $ million house....

Now you may only be able to afford say $500,00....... so the reality will be:
*That you will be outbid by others that can afford more (ie one of the 5 other Clubs that want Jolly
*that if you were by chance the only bidder at $500,00 that the Owners (the swans) will prefer to sit on their asset rather than give it away...
That is one of the other bidders really desire the house it may go formore thana $million..... If everyone is not that keen, but the owners want to sett it may go fora bit less.


The exception is when you finish last...which we have not...and can blackmail clubs into giving you better deals....in which case you can get the "house' at a fire sale price. We did this with Hamill and GTrain.






You cannot expect to offer up bugger all to get something substantial.

Why would the Swans do a deal????? they did not wina flag by being stupid.


The Swans will want at least one of:

* a low draft pick
* a good established player
* a genuine young talent

[fisher_fan]

and the fact is jolly wants to come to victoria and is out of contract....so i am sure that the swans would rather take the $500,000 than lose the house and get nothing at all..........

[saintsRrising]

. we probably would be in the top 5 for midfielders in the comp (ball, dal santo, hayes, montagna, fiora).

We don't have enough mids....we need more to run through the midfield.

In addition if Harvey does not retire this year...he will next year.




I do agree though that a good or better ruckmen is a very important need that we have.....but do not discount our need for more run and midfielders.

[saintsRrising]

and the fact is jolly wants to come to victoria and is out of contract....so i am sure that the swans would rather take the $500,000 than lose the house and get nothing at all..........

We finsihed NINTH.....so we have no hope in hell of beinga club that could get him fora firesale price.

That would be Ricmond or the Blues who will have first and second picks in the PSD.

The Tigers are the only club (and this only applies if Jollies contact expires this year..) that can doa deal with Jolly to say stand out and we will select you at No 1 in the PSD.

The saints at EIGHTH pick would not be able to get him that way....one of the SEVEN Clubs before us would take him

The ONLY way the Saints could get Jolly is by offerring fair value.

Anything else is the subject of day dreams and fairy tales.

[Dan Warna]

concur SRS

while I would LOVE a great ruckman who wasn't a turd at st kilda Im not willing to trade the TV for a VCR.

Knobel competed adequately and neutralised the effectiveness of opposition ruckmen adequately, but was exposed around the ground, Richmond Grossly overvalued his worth.

hackland competed adequately around the ground, but was exposed in a the ruck a bit, had a very good year in 2005 that put him inthe category below the elite ruckman in with the good ruckman, but he fell away in 06, and carlton grossly overvalued his worth.

Brooks hasn't come on to date, i think its possible he will be cut. He certainly has talent, i think even the biggest brooks hater couldn't deny it, but whether he has the discipline and desire to cut it afl level is what concerns peeps.

Rix's value is only in attempting to neutralise the effectiveness of opposition ruckman. his kicking, handpass and marking are limited, although even the biggest rix hater cant deny that he works as hard as any other ruckman going around laying effective tackles all over the place.

Kosi just has had a wretched couple of years since his debut season and subsequent to troy wilson slamming him. Again for talent Kosi has all the assets of spider minus the extra couple inches, gutsy mark, quick brain, ability to kick goals from 55m (and like spider miss from 25 ) his ruckwork has been adequate without being good.

blake, blake has been one of the most maligned players at st kilda, but folks forget he was working his way into being an auto starter when stafford cracked his back. Since then has worked very hard to play forward, back, centre, RR, and ruck as GT and RL required.

Doc clarke, a lovely guy, polite, no mobility, he knew it, the club knew it, the fans knew it, but RL probably thought with this list, get a competitive ruckman and a fair season with injuries and a geniune finals attack was not out of the question.

gardiner = who knows? The solution to our woes, or just another problem, by all accounts he is a far different person to 18 months ago.

---

Trades:

any ruckman of the quality of Cox would be too expensive (trade the TV for th VCR)

any A grade ruckman will cost too much as well. 6 or 7 season ago, spider, darcy, king, gardiner, matty Allen, paul salmon, Bishop, lade, brogan, clarke Keating, beau McDonald, Josh Fraser, jeff white amongst others were considered good to better than good quality ruckman.

now the scale has changed and even goodish ruckmen or above average ruckmen have the value of a first round draft pick and a good player (carltscum paying 300k for hackland based on 2005 form!, knobel also on a phat wage for richmond based on 2003/4 form)

[fisher_fan]

thats exactly right, you are right.....richmond would get him in the psd for nothing. so why wouldnt sydney take our second pick , watts and rix......they didnt win a premiership by giving up there players for nothing.....i.e us losing everitt for brooks.....which is nothing i might add, thats why we finished 9th.

unless another club gets involved and offers a fevola or a dale thomas (unlikely) or something really high then if i were the saints i would like at throwing in the big guns. at the end of the day the saints need someone like jolly and they have since they lost everitt. i do understand what you mean but without another good value ruckman we can get all the midfielders in the world....but if kosi is rucking part time next year we will have no forward line. gardiner could not run a hole game in the ruck, brooks will never be ready, clarke is gone and rix isn't valuable enough to rely on. without kosi in the forward line we will struggle now the g-train has gone.....i know i would rather have jolly in the ruck and kosi at full forward....than kosi in the ruck and watts at ff

[saintsRrising]

thats exactly right, you are right.....richmond would get him in the psd for nothing. so why wouldnt sydney take our second pick , watts and rix......

1/ That there are about 5 other clubs in the bidding war....so price will not be cheap.
2/ the Swans only trade for cpable to good to elite ruckmen. Rix is not good enough and there is no way they would chase him.
3/ Watts LEFT adelaide so he could come back to Melbourne....so why would he want to go to Sydney... ???

HOWEVER athree way where we say swap Watts to the Dogs (so he stays in Melb)...and the Dogs supplya player/ to the Swans may work.

Then again as the Dogs are reportedly keen on Jolly too they may just nab him direct!!