Saints board faces new challengers

[my les foote]

http://realfooty.com.au/news/news/saint ... 58069.html

DEEP divisions have emerged at St Kilda as the club moves into a potentially tumultuous off-season with a split board, unsigned key players and the threat of not one but two challengers to Rod Butterss and his team.

The Age believes that Butterss and his inner circle have been at odds in recent months with fellow directors John Gdanski and Ross Levin, with tensions spilling over at the Saints-West Coast game last Friday week about a dispute originating in part from the handling of the Steven Baker tribunal hearing.

Further fuelling the tension is the fact that neither former club captain Nathan Burke, who will consider his final position this week, nor the transport boss emerging as an alternative president, Greg Westaway, have returned Butterss' calls. A separate challenge is also being looked at by a former St Kilda director.

One year after the sacking of coach Grant Thomas, the club is also divided over Ken Sheldon's position as head of the Saints' football department. Sheldon has been placed in charge of player contracts and that decision was a matter of some heated debate at a recent board meeting.

Justin Koschitzke, who has been the subject of renewed interest from Carlton, Xavier Clarke, Baker and Matt Maguire all remain unsigned. The retirement of Fraser Gehrig makes the retention of Koschitzke all the more crucial for the Saints.

Sheldon's handling — with the help of club directors but not the lawyer Levin — of the Baker charge after the Fremantle game in round 20 raised eyebrows among the Saints hierarchy and was criticised on radio SEN by coach-turned-commentator Thomas.

Levin, who was attending the game with guests, moved seats after a robust verbal joust with Butterss. Witnesses reported Butterss, unhappy with comments made by Thomas on radio, flicked Levin on the face with his AFL Record. Another version had Butterss unhappy with Levin's behaviour during an official speech.

The tension at board level is believed to have prompted Levin to consider resigning from the board, while Burke has told former teammates he has become disenchanted with the Butterss board, the club's football operation and under-resourced football department.

Last Friday, Levin sent an email to all of his fellow directors assuring them he was not planning to stand against Butterss on a rival ticket that, under the St Kilda constitution, would take 60 days to orchestrate following a move for an extraordinary general meeting.

Levin refused to comment when contacted last night. Butterss denied eyewitness reports that he had angrily flicked Levin with his Record. "We had a discussion, that's all it was. I have strong debate with all of my directors from time to time. This was a storm in a teacup."

The president told The Age last night of a potential challenge: "I would have thought if anyone's got concerns, they would have called me as a first point of contact. This is not the way to go about it. We're trying to re-sign players and contract sponsors. The timing is not ideal.

"Having said that, five teams that made the finals last year missed out this year. There's always going to be talk like this after a disappointing season but I'm confident there will be no challenge."

Burke, who sat on the coaching panel that selected Dean Bailey as the Demons' new coach, also sits on the AFL's match review panel, works as a consultant for Mettle Media and part-time as a media commentator on football issues.

"I've left messages for him but I haven't heard back," said Butterss, who has the support of fellow directors Glen Casey and Mark Kellett. "I understand he is now on holidays."

[mischa]

Still gabbing off at the mouth I see, despite his "plea" on SEN about the media

[always tomorrow]

Wilson has this article more right than wrong and is a 100% improvement on her guff over the weekend.

For the record, Burkey is being demonised by Butterss who is leaking most of this information to try and keep his seat of power.

He is an absolute hypocrite of the highest order for if anyone cares to remember he publicly threatened Andrew Plympton before taking over in an orchestrated 'changing of the guard'.

The clock is ticking....

AT

[Mr Magic]

For the record, Burkey is being demonised by Butterss who is leaking most of this information to try and keep his seat of power.


AT

And you know this how?

[chook23]

Still gabbing off at the mouth I see, despite his "plea" on SEN about the media

You referring to GT again and his comments on SEN

[JeffDunne]

The president told The Age last night of a potential challenge: "I would have thought if anyone's got concerns, they would have called me as a first point of contact. This is not the way to go about it. We're trying to re-sign players and contract sponsors. The timing is not ideal.


"I've left messages for him but I haven't heard back," said Butterss, who has the support of fellow directors Glen Casey and Mark Kellett. "I understand he is now on holidays."

Clear enough for you MM?

[Mr Magic]

The president told The Age last night of a potential challenge: "I would have thought if anyone's got concerns, they would have called me as a first point of contact. This is not the way to go about it. We're trying to re-sign players and contract sponsors. The timing is not ideal.


"I've left messages for him but I haven't heard back," said Butterss, who has the support of fellow directors Glen Casey and Mark Kellett. "I understand he is now on holidays."

Clear enough for you MM?

Yep JD.

Which part of your quote says
RB demonized, denigrated, belittled or said anything else derogatory about Nathan Burke.

The only reference to Burke that I read in the article is where he said he had left messages for him which had not been returned and that he thought he was now on holidays.

But please, feel free to educate me on the secret language nuances that you so obviously understand so well?

[JeffDunne]

He is trying to paint challengers as a destabilising influence. "This is not the way to go about it"


Did he need to tell the world Nathan didn't return his calls either?

[Mr Magic]

And another small thing JD,
Please explain to me why, If Butters is the one leaking all this to the media, wouldn't he have leaked the fact that BEDWELL was on the ticket to Caro?

Surely as his name on the ticket would be the single most positive reason to discard the alternatives' challenge, he would have leaked that fact to Caro?

Doesn't this point to him not being the original source for all of this?

And as for him being quoted in the article, surely the Age rang him for a comment and he responded. Isn't that just as plausible?

WHy do you accept that they rang Ross Levin for a comment? WHy isn't he suspected as being the source? Afterall he is quoted in the article as well.

[Mr Magic]

He is trying to paint challengers as a destabilising influence. "This is not the way to go about it"


Did he need to tell the world Nathan didn't return his calls either?

So that is how he is demonizing Burke?

[JeffDunne]

And another small thing JD,
Please explain to me why, If Butters is the one leaking all this to the media, wouldn't he have leaked the fact that BEDWELL was on the ticket to Caro?

Maybe because he isn't?

And as for him being quoted in the article, surely the Age rang him for a comment and he responded. Isn't that just as plausible?

No doubt. But does he need to be Mr "Dial a Quote"?

WHy do you accept that they rang Ross Levin for a comment? WHy isn't he suspected as being the source? Afterall he is quoted in the article as well.

"Levin refused to comment when contacted last night"

Seriously MM, quit while you're behind. I'm getting sick of making you look a dill.

[Mr Magic]

And another small thing JD,
Please explain to me why, If Butters is the one leaking all this to the media, wouldn't he have leaked the fact that BEDWELL was on the ticket to Caro?

Maybe because he isn't?

And as for him being quoted in the article, surely the Age rang him for a comment and he responded. Isn't that just as plausible?

No doubt. But does he need to be Mr "Dial a Quote"?

WHy do you accept that they rang Ross Levin for a comment? WHy isn't he suspected as being the source? Afterall he is quoted in the article as well.

"Levin refused to comment when contacted last night"

Seriously MM, quit while you're behind. I'm getting sick of making you look a dill.

As long as you think so JD

I just love the way you selectively quote articles to try and prove your point. It is truly an honour to be schooled by such an educated master such as yourself.

Your use of insults to belittle opposing views is so mature. A real lesson to novices like me.

I look forward to more debating lessons from you in the future.

[always tomorrow]

So that is how he is demonizing Burke?

there are comments on the record and there are comments off the record.

i'll leave the rest for you to deduce...

nothing i've said on here can be proven to be false, from my very first post...that is fact.

AT

[Eastern]

Guys !!

Yes, this all looks pretty messy but I think we ALL need to wait until more information comes out before making our assessments of the whole thing !!

[Mr Magic]

So that is how he is demonizing Burke?

there are comments on the record and there are comments off the record.

i'll leave the rest for you to deduce...

nothing i've said on here can be proven to be false, from my very first post...that is fact.

AT

Oh I didn't realize you were an oracle?

[always tomorrow]

Oh I didn't realize you were an oracle?

no need to be rude, i've not belittled you at all - i was simply answering your question. in future, i'll refrain from doing that for you given your apparent displeasure with my responses.

AT

[spert]

In hindsight, maybe now is a good time for RB to step aside. I think he and GT were part of an era which was good for a while but then crumbled badly and personally, and although RB has done a lot of good stuff, that era may have passed.

[joffaboy]

It is good and healthy that a challenge is being mounted.

I said after the Baker debacle that the board had lost me. The defence was laughable, and then to plead to the appeals tribunal to take baker telling the truth into consideration.

Oh Please

Also nice to see Butters didn't use the lawyer on the board to put together the defence. Yeah great work Butters.

Thomas is gone, and now it is time for Butters to up stumps and give someone else a shot.

As for using players as a political tool. Oh FFS Rod, we saw with your spat with Thomas how much it affected the signing of Riewoldt and Dal Santo.

With Gehrig and others gone there will be more than enough for Kosi, and Goose and X.

Just go Rod,

[stinger]

Guys !!

Yes, this all looks pretty messy but I think we ALL need to wait until more information comes out before making our assessments of the whole thing !!

i agree...but someone is up to mischief......

[ausfatcat]

evryones forgot something here...



about contract Xavier Clarke has already resigned with the saints. The article is wrong on this fact what else is it wrong on?

[asiu]

keep posting your stuff AT......theres a lot here that 'read' avidly


its amazing how many with shite lapping their ankles claim the high moral ground , in what could only 'loosely' be called debating

[SENsei]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Butterss needs to go. The club cannot and will not move forward for a new era until he and his baggage are removed. By baggage I mean Mark Kellett also. Ken Sheldon along with his mate, Glen Casey, will most likely be collateral damage, although Ken's reputation is taking a daily hammering in any case.

This is becoming a daily circus and with RB as head clown.

He has done some great things for the club, as did GT before him. But his public behaviour and comments in the last 18 months have left many questioning him. Let alone decisions made at club level, our falling memberships, the Moorabbin debacle with Flopsy Topsy and our 'suspect' financial position.

I say 'suspect' as I believe (cannot know for sure) that our bottom line might look good but is camouflaged by the TV deal. My suspicions only.

One has gone and the other needs to follow so the club can move on.

[meher baba]

Fascinating article. I found this part particularly interesting.

One year after the sacking of coach Grant Thomas, the club is also divided over Ken Sheldon's position as head of the Saints' football department. Sheldon has been placed in charge of player contracts and that decision was a matter of some heated debate at a recent board meeting.

Justin Koschitzke, who has been the subject of renewed interest from Carlton, Xavier Clarke, Baker and Matt Maguire all remain unsigned. The retirement of Fraser Gehrig makes the retention of Koschitzke all the more crucial for the Saints.

Sheldon's handling — with the help of club directors but not the lawyer Levin — of the Baker charge after the Fremantle game in round 20 raised eyebrows among the Saints hierarchy and was criticised on radio SEN by coach-turned-commentator Thomas.

I have always been a supporter of the idea of one all-powerful man (call him a Manager, Coach or whatever) being ultimately responsible for all things football at a club. So I was never critical of GT on this aspect of his management style: although I also agree that an El Supremo must be able to delegate responsibility and not try to do everything himself. GT allegedly was unable to delegate, and therefore deserved criticism in this regard (although I always thought that Matt Rendell was given a fair degree of independent responsibility, although it was hard to be sure about this looking in from the outside).

Given my preference for an El Supremo, I have always worried about the purpose of a Football Manager who somehow works autonomously from - and reports to the Board through a separate channel - to the Coach. I have never understood what the precise limits of the roles and responsibilities of such an individual might be: but, whatever they are, Sheldon appears to have stuffed them up rather badly.

Now I accept that the part about the uncontracted players is a bit unfair: given that X has apparently re-signed, and Kosi is allegedly on the verge of re-signing (and I find it hard to believe that Baker and Maguire would be at serious risk of leaving the club). But, if everything re contracts really is under control and in the very best of hands, then Sheldon should have had enough sense to do everything he could to bring the Board along with him re the reasons for the delays.

I also feel some sympathy for Sheldon and Butterss in relation to the Levin business. Board members, regardless of their expertise, do not have an automatic right to interfere in the day-to-day administration of the club. If they aren't invited to participate, they should shut up and keep well out of it.

Unfortunately, the Baker business seems to have been a complete stuff-up. Which only plays into the hands of the enemies of Sheldon (and Butterss, and presumably Fraser).

In my varied experience of organisations, once these sorts of divisions emerge, they tend to snowball. So we can expect some more dramas in the next few days.

The current Board and the likes of Fraser get zero sympathy from me: they brought all of this on themselves by sacking a successful coach without being able to tell a sufficiently convincing story as to why this had to happen. As a consequence, they are now unable to explain to the world - or the members - whether we should be satisfied with our result in 2007 and, if so, why.

[Oh When the Saints]

always tomorrow is an accurate poster IMO

[Teflon]

always tomorrow is an accurate poster IMO

maybe but the obvious bias in his sig gives him away a touch to be taken to seriously I wouldve thought....