Who would you axe?

[mad saint guy]

how did he go in the other 2 ???
this is professional footy if he cant make the seniors hes takeing up space for some on who can !!!

He was going well against the Bulldogs as a leading forward with 7 possies, 2 marks, 2 free for (from marking contests) and 2 hitouts to half time. Was off injured after that.

In the Hawks game he had about 50 minutes of game time in a forward pocket, and that was a game that involved no forward movement of the ball. He had to stay inside 50 during his 40 minutes of game time, in wich he managed 3 possessions.

The only game that he has had over 60 minutes of TOG in was the Brisbane game. It was the only opportunity he has ever had to actually make an impact and he dominated. Rix has played 28 games and been the number one ruckman about 6 times. Not once has he ever came close to getting a mention in the best.

[st.mart]

some seriously uninformed posts about Brooks......factually incorrect.....and poor analysis

[To the top]

So let's discuss the value of form against Brisbane.

Milne kicked 11 goals against Brisbane, in Melbourne, in the final game of year.

And has not kicked more than 2 in a game since.

So, let's apply the same criteria to Milne and see how he stacks up, because except for an effort here and there he does not.

With our mid-field deficiencies we can not afford to play a one position player in a forward pocket (refer Gehrig's comments).

The reason Brooks has not received the opportunities he may otherwise have got (and particularly this year) is because of structure, as I previously covered off on.

In normal circumstances you would expect that such consistent form from a 198cm player would be rewarded.

The fact that he did not drop his bundle and drop his output may have something to do with what the coach has said to him about future (post Gehrig) opportunities.

[To the top]

And remember, Lyon has been trying to talk Gehrig out of retirement for some time.

Ultimately unsuccessfully.

[saintsRrising]

Lol … Plugger you and SR are the ones touting Brooks as a forward only..

Er cough cough....when have I said that Brooks is a forward only??????


I normally describe him as a ruck/forward.....and a player that would make a better key forward than a No 1 ruckman.

If Brooks could get his act together he would make an excellent No2 ruckman that can also play forward.

He also has the capability of playing as a key forward only....once again if he gets his act together.



In some ways he is similar to Kosi in his niche in the team.......and therin lies a problem for Brooks....as he may have to displace Kosi....which is not likely to happen.




IF Kosi played permanent FF because gardener was able to hold down No1 ruck...then Brooks could play No2 ruck who also goes forward.


That Brooks has not been able to displace Blake says a lot about the status of Brooks.

[saintsrule]

jamie charman is out of contract

[Dan Warna]

wtf, is st kilda the dumping ground for every ruckman who can't get a game in the first 22?

they aren't stars and they are second or third rucks.

i notice a few of the ppl touting the no.2 or no.3 ruckman at clubs are the same folks bagging us for taking hackland, crapuano, knobelly, doc clarke and gardiner

[saintsrule]

wtf, is st kilda the dumping ground for every ruckman who can't get a game in the first 22?

they aren't stars and they are second or third rucks.

i notice a few of the ppl touting the no.2 or no.3 ruckman at clubs are the same folks bagging us for taking hackland, crapuano, knobelly, doc clarke and gardiner

Jamie Charman is good

[sasaint]

keep brooks and play him second ruck in the seniors.

this opens a spot for brooks and, hopefully, gardiner will come up.

there's always blake, who is a very capable ruckman, rix, who is a depth player and even goose can pinch-hit.

Brooks is gone. Sorry to all the people who think he is a ruckman but Blake is Polly Farmer compared to Brooks in the ruck.

I guarantee that if we delist Brooks he will be picked up by another team. The Doggies would love to have him as a FF with pinch hitting in the ruck. Brooks could possibly attract a 2nd or 3rd round draft selection if we MUST get rid of him.

[maverick]

Is it possible that with G retired Brooks might get a reprieve?

Marto, where is this so called analysis factually incorrect?

[plugger66]

keep brooks and play him second ruck in the seniors.

this opens a spot for brooks and, hopefully, gardiner will come up.

there's always blake, who is a very capable ruckman, rix, who is a depth player and even goose can pinch-hit.

Brooks is gone. Sorry to all the people who think he is a ruckman but Blake is Polly Farmer compared to Brooks in the ruck.

I guarantee that if we delist Brooks he will be picked up by another team. The Doggies would love to have him as a FF with pinch hitting in the ruck. Brooks could possibly attract a 2nd or 3rd round draft selection if we MUST get rid of him.

He is not tradable and IMO will not be picked up.

[Teflon]

B Voss: he was out of form towards the end of this year, but he's experienced, and his brother is a powerful person in the AFL world who the Saints wouldn't particularly want to put off side (and don't discount the importance of this point). I reckon he'll be retained unless he decides to retire.

One of THE most ridiculous and funny posts Ive ever read.....so....lets get this right.....St Kilda wont delist Brett Voss our of fear from Michael Voss?????

You sir are a peanut.....but an entertaining one none the less....

Funny stuff.. ...(actually laughed out loud when I read this drivel...)

[aussierules0k]

[SaintWodonga]

jamie charman is out of contract

And? You think he'd be worth what? What would you have to give up for him? Not much I reckon..

[To the top]

SR, the reason Blake gets a gig is, in my opinion, more a reflection on our mid-field deficiencies and that Blake can run with someone - which you would not expect a 198cm forward/ruckman to do.

Blake is a negative - because his role is to negate.

As I have said before, I have viewed that Kosi and Brooks were competing for the same spot in an ideal world - basically a forward but giving ruck support.

And Lyon has stated this in his reference to Watts and Brooks being behind Roo, Kosi and Gehrig.

Despite Lyon's coaxing, Gehrig is now retired.

As Lyon said, 60 goal forwards do not grow on trees.

With Gehrig gone, we simply can not afford to continue with Kosi in the ruck- not even as a number 2 to Gardiner, he is needed in a key forward position as a constant target.

Because, also, we will not be able to afford him rucking and on the bench.

He is just far too important now.

And so it opens up for Brooks to assist in the ruck, go forward and spend bench time.

Rix can not do this. He can not handle or dispose of the ball.

Blake cannot do this. He is better utilised peeling off and picking someone up, to support our mid-field.

And that leads to our problem - the depth of our mid-field and particularly our running capacities.

I would expect that this is the area that will come under critical scrutiny. And this is the area that Lyon will look to improve. There is a core who are safe, and their names are obvious (including Harvey).

If the review of the mid-field stocks flows over to any area it will be to the "taggers" and to the specialist small forwards.

Because some of them may find they have to make way for mid-field running talent.

Of the over 196cm brigade, now that Clarke is gone, our options are slim with even Rix having to be replaced by like in terms of size and designated position.

If we can add some one, then all the better because our numbers (5 including Gardiner) are slim indeed, particularly given that one of this number has to replace Gehrig up forward.

It seems to me that there are 3 prolific posters who knock Brooks.

But they never run the rule over others - including some who get a game each week but do not have the impact they should.

And I shine the light on Milne and Baker for starters.

Milne's first quarter against Richmond was what you should see, including for defensive pressure but then he does what he usually does - and disappears.

And the number of players Bakes can run with is diminishing, rapidly. They are just getting too quick and too tall for him and I use Ablett as the example and Ling as the benchmark (because Ling should be the most ordinary of "taggers" and should be run off his legs -but perhaps Ling has more mid-field support which makes Baker cart before the horse stuff for us. And Ling has more size to block).

So, start jumping up and down now!

[The_Dud]

DELIST

Milne


It is so clear that the reason he has kept his spot is because R Lyon made the decision to keep him at the end of last year.....


....But when your wrong Ross, your wrong.....dont keep giving him a senior spot because of stubborness.

stupidity.....

Please explain how he actually contributes to the team?

setting up and scoring goals usually counts for a bit

he setup/caused/kicked 5 goals against the tigers

dud your fighting a losing battle...Milney is the scapegoat for some f-wits and even though he is erratic at times, they will never admit he is a positive contributor.

Yeh he's a scapegoat.....

He's a liability. Cant understand how you could think otherwise....maybe him being on the end of a cheap goal once...maybe twice a game is enough for you.

But for 120 minutes football that isnot nearly enough for me.

let me 'drop some knowledge' on you

out of the 44 players who played on Saturday arvo at the MCG, Milne had the equal fifth most tackles, only behind Dal Santo, Birss, Fiora and S.Edwards, and was equal FIRST in score assists, and he was on the end of a "cheap" goal aswell

Milne directly contributed to 5 of our 14 goals

and i think others have stated his season stats, where hes directly contributed to 20% of our goals for the entire season

geez, if thats a liability..........

[DK27]

Some rubbish is posted on here. Brooks has not played for several reasons. Has anyone seen him train? He appears to do the bare minimum. No effort. Our best players train as if their life depends on it. This attitude follows through to matches. Brooks has minimal second efforts and does not look fit enough to run a game out. Lazy. I would give my left one for a pinch of his talent but he has wasted it. Took 12 marks and played OK in the ruck on Sunday and has been playing quite well for several weeks. If he just had a red hot go and and got really fit he could make it. With Doc Clarke retiring he may just one last chance but RL is all about effort and attitude and that is Brooks' short suit.

Some people want to cut Wall. How many goals has he had kicked on him playing full back for the Scorpions? Not many. He is tall, has good speed and with a good pre season in the gym to build some muscle could be the tall defender we need. Mistake to cut him.

Howard was drafted so is contracted for next year. Give the kid a chance. He and Geary are the type we need to improve as a side. Fast, athletic and a chance to hit a target by foot which is a lot better than a few who played against Richmond.

Gehrig, Doc, Thommo gone. Raymond and Voss likely and one or 2 more in a weak draft is all we need to turn over this year.

[The_Dud]

Some rubbish is posted on here. Brooks has not played for several reasons. Has anyone seen him train? He appears to do the bare minimum. No effort. Our best players train as if their life depends on it. This attitude follows through to matches. Brooks has minimal second efforts and does not look fit enough to run a game out. Lazy. I would give my left one for a pinch of his talent but he has wasted it. Took 12 marks and played OK in the ruck on Sunday and has been playing quite well for several weeks. If he just had a red hot go and and got really fit he could make it. With Doc Clarke retiring he may just one last chance but RL is all about effort and attitude and that is Brooks' short suit.

spot on

i hope Spinner is reading.....

[meher baba]

B Voss: he was out of form towards the end of this year, but he's experienced, and his brother is a powerful person in the AFL world who the Saints wouldn't particularly want to put off side (and don't discount the importance of this point). I reckon he'll be retained unless he decides to retire.

One of THE most ridiculous and funny posts Ive ever read.....so....lets get this right.....St Kilda wont delist Brett Voss our of fear from Michael Voss?????

You sir are a peanut.....but an entertaining one none the less....

Funny stuff.. ...(actually laughed out loud when I read this drivel...)

For someone who posts so much illogical and wildly inconsistent garbage, you have a hell of a lot to say about everyone else's posts, don't you Teflon?

Guess what: nepotism is rampant in many other walks of life and many other sports (eg, do you think that Trevor Chappell would ever have played for Australia in cricket if his name had been Trevor Smith?). I didn't realise that the AFL is a unique world in which this sort of consideration plays no part.

Sorry, I shouldn't have dared to suggest that decisions on lists at St Kilda and other clubs are ever made on the basis of anything other than the most objective possible analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of players.

That, for example, the fact that a full forward's father was our CEO would never enter into our decision to recruit that player. Or that a ruckman well past his use by date is the favourite of a hostile and powerful media commentator who we want to suck up to (and who we had already let choose our coach for us) would never influence us in any way.

Or that the same media commentator would spend the entire 2007 telling the world what a great club we are, simply because we recruited two of his mates.

Simply couldn't happen at our club, could it?

Well M Voss is in the process of becoming a powerful media commentator, and is certainly a feted member of the inner sanctum of AFL circles. Perhaps he isn't powerful enough yet to matter that much. But, if I were making a decision about his brother's future, I would certainly have a think about whether or not I wanted to tread on his toes.

[JeffDunne]

Ask Kevin Sheedy (& the Essendon Board) if Michael Voss has any pull.

TBH, I'd be suprised if we're not one of many clubs trying to pull off the 'coup' of signing him as an assistant either.

[mischa]

Or that a ruckman well past his use by date is the favourite of a hostile and powerful media commentator who we want to suck up to (and who we had already let choose our coach for us) would never influence us in any way.

Well said. Absolutely shameful of the board to have ever gotten in bed with that Walls scumbag. Yeah the same a**hole who accused Matt Maguire of "acting" when B. Hall punched him "Nothing in it" the scum said. Then berated him for not getting up quick enough and does his best to get "Hall" off. Makes me sick. That is reason enough in itself!

[sainter104]

Why cant Brooks play full foward hes got the pace marking skill and is a good kick. much prefer kosi in the ruck and resting foward

[Sobraz]

Again the biggest player of contention seems to be Barry.. I'd persoanlly certainly keep him and play him as our number 1 RUCKMAN... People point to him not being big enough to play ruck and in the same post state Blake to be our permanant no.2 ruck. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if Brooks (at 198) is too short to be a ruckman, what the hell is blake (at 189)??!!

Essentially, winning the taps is pointless. Its what the ruckmen do around the ground that is important.

[Solar]

Again the biggest player of contention seems to be Barry.. I'd persoanlly certainly keep him and play him as our number 1 RUCKMAN... People point to him not being big enough to play ruck and in the same post state Blake to be our permanant no.2 ruck. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if Brooks (at 198) is too short to be a ruckman, what the hell is blake (at 189)??!!

Essentially, winning the taps is pointless. Its what the ruckmen do around the ground that is important.

you are starting to sound like an ex coach we once had.

On a couple of things. Have a feeling that brooks might make the cut, fergusson might also. I say fergi cause we lost baker and attard in t he space of a week and had to throw leigh fisher into the midfield holding role. I would thing that lyon will develop both fish and mini in midfield run with roles for 2008. Thus fisher leaves a hole at BP, where fergi played the last two weeks. Give him a full pre-season with the senior squad with the knowledge that the position is there for him to take and if injury doesn't hit we might have found us a replacement.

sweeney might be gone, struggled after coming back from injury and played out the year in the seconds. Raymond is on borrowed time. Add voss to retire and that could be enough.

[meher baba]

Have a feeling that brooks might make the cute, fergusson might also..

Lenny and Dal are my tips to make the "cute".