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D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
But can all clubs throw up
Tom Hawkins
Mathew Scarlett
Garry Ablett
Oh so we are getting rid of father sons too, personally I love how it makes our game interesting and unique, but I guess if you enjoy complaining about the game you don't have much room left for the romance of it.
If it is so easy and all clubs can throw up a list of players that play 100-200-300 games from picks 25+, why aren't they all doing it to the level that Geelong and Sydney are? Maybe go out there and find the list for the Saints and we can see how they compare. You might even find my point that when we drafted and developed talent well (eg Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert) we competed at the top of the ladder and when we have done it poorly we have had to turnover alot of the list regularly and have struggled.
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
But can all clubs throw up
Tom Hawkins
Mathew Scarlett
Garry Ablett
Oh so we are getting rid of father sons too, personally I love how it makes our game interesting and unique, but I guess if you enjoy complaining about the game you don't have much room left for the romance of it.
If it is so easy and all clubs can throw up a list of players that play 100-200-300 games from picks 25+, why aren't they all doing it to the level that Geelong and Sydney are? Maybe go out there and find the list for the Saints and we can see how they compare. You might even find my point that when we drafted and developed talent well (eg Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert) we competed at the top of the ladder and when we have done it poorly we have had to turnover alot of the list regularly and have struggled.
No you don't have to get rid of father sons but again it makes the comp uneven.
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
But can all clubs throw up
Tom Hawkins
Mathew Scarlett
Garry Ablett
Oh so we are getting rid of father sons too, personally I love how it makes our game interesting and unique, but I guess if you enjoy complaining about the game you don't have much room left for the romance of it.
If it is so easy and all clubs can throw up a list of players that play 100-200-300 games from picks 25+, why aren't they all doing it to the level that Geelong and Sydney are? Maybe go out there and find the list for the Saints and we can see how they compare. You might even find my point that when we drafted and developed talent well (eg Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert) we competed at the top of the ladder and when we have done it poorly we have had to turnover alot of the list regularly and have struggled.
No you don't have to get rid of father sons but again it makes the comp uneven.
If you don't have an issue with them then why bring them up?
And if all you have is an argument that you immediately back track from are you finally conceding that it is more than just a couple of academy players that make a club successful?
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
But can all clubs throw up
Tom Hawkins
Mathew Scarlett
Garry Ablett
Oh so we are getting rid of father sons too, personally I love how it makes our game interesting and unique, but I guess if you enjoy complaining about the game you don't have much room left for the romance of it.
If it is so easy and all clubs can throw up a list of players that play 100-200-300 games from picks 25+, why aren't they all doing it to the level that Geelong and Sydney are? Maybe go out there and find the list for the Saints and we can see how they compare. You might even find my point that when we drafted and developed talent well (eg Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert) we competed at the top of the ladder and when we have done it poorly we have had to turnover alot of the list regularly and have struggled.
No you don't have to get rid of father sons but again it makes the comp uneven.
If you don't have an issue with them then why bring them up?
And if all you have is an argument that you immediately back track from are you finally conceding that it is more than just a couple of academy players that make a club successful?
What you don't think being handed Hawkins Ablett and Scarlett helped?
Or Heeney Mills Blakey. Two of those are all AA this season and one basically won them the GWS FINAL.
Its a huge advantage. Geelong wouldn't have had half the success they've had without HAWKINS. being a father son pick.
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:28am
Swans have also worked tirelessly to develop their young talent in a non traditional AFL state, just like GCS are doing now.
I'm not sure I buy this angle. The AFL is pulling the strings on this one.
The (in)competency of Gold Coast as a club doesn't match their success as an academy.
The academies help grow the game by bringing in kids (and their families) who might not otherwise be interested in footy. Allowing them to stay in the state with their families is part of this deal that entices them in. It would be nice if it worked more like American sports when new players were it is part of the deal that you just go wherever you are drafted, but we maybe forget that for those sports the recruits are coming out of college 99% of the time (so are 20+) on contracts that could allow them to relocate their whole families if they wanted, where as for us it would be asking 17/18 year olds to move hundreds of kilometres away which families might be more nervous about at that initial stage.
Ultimately there are advantages and disadvantages each way. Vic clubs get travel advantages and a home grand final if they make it. Interstate gets academies, but Vic clubs are starting to see advantage from NGAs now to balance that a bit. And if you are talking about draft equity, you have to get rid of father sons and everything else, and I think they help make our game more special (even if we rarely get that benefit).
At the end of the day, look at Sydney and Geelong. Two of the most consistent modern era clubs in terms of making finals if not winning it all. One has an academy, but they both know how to identify and develop talent once they are in the system. That is the more critical skill, not getting a couple of kids maybe a bit cheaper than they otherwise would have.
Yes Geelong identified two of the best players in the AFL in Cameron and Dangerfield.
You are right, we should ban trading between clubs, but before we do, just remind me what picks were used on:
Paul Chapman
Cameron Ling
Corey Enright
Mitch Duncan
James Podsiadly
Cameron Guthrie
Mark Blicavs
Jake Kolodjashnij
Sam Menegola
Tom Stewart
Zach Guthrie
Gryan Miers
Tom Atkins
Yep again a list of players that all clubs can throw up.
But can all clubs throw up
Tom Hawkins
Mathew Scarlett
Garry Ablett
Oh so we are getting rid of father sons too, personally I love how it makes our game interesting and unique, but I guess if you enjoy complaining about the game you don't have much room left for the romance of it.
If it is so easy and all clubs can throw up a list of players that play 100-200-300 games from picks 25+, why aren't they all doing it to the level that Geelong and Sydney are? Maybe go out there and find the list for the Saints and we can see how they compare. You might even find my point that when we drafted and developed talent well (eg Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert) we competed at the top of the ladder and when we have done it poorly we have had to turnover alot of the list regularly and have struggled.
No you don't have to get rid of father sons but again it makes the comp uneven.
If you don't have an issue with them then why bring them up?
And if all you have is an argument that you immediately back track from are you finally conceding that it is more than just a couple of academy players that make a club successful?
What you don't think being handed Hawkins Ablett and Scarlett helped?
Or Heeney Mills Blakey. Two of those are all AA this season and one basically won them the GWS FINAL.
Its a huge advantage. Geelong wouldn't have had half the success they've had without HAWKINS. being a father son pick.
Yeah I guess if you continue to ignore the fact that no recruit is guaranteed to make it, sure it helps. I guess in your universe every player who is highly rated is just destined to be good.
In reality for every Gary Ablett Jr there is a Nathan Ablett who for whatever reason doesn't make it, or are they still an advantage for you? Remembering that they still cost picks (in some cases multiple) so their clubs are missing out on drafting other players as a result.
In reality it is a team game and more than just three good players that get a team in to the finals and through them.
But I guess it is easier to sook about some perceived hand out rather than looking at the more complex reason that our club (and others, including ones that get hand outs) has failed to develop actual talent.
As an aside, do you know who the last player was who made the AA squad proper that we drafted in the national draft?
Scollop wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2024 7:08pm
Stuv (Jack Steven) made the squad of 40 twice but didn't get a jacket in the final team. Same with Sebby
Roo would have been the last one to make the 22 from players that we picked up in the national draft
Roo was the one who made the most recent AA team (2014).
The last player we drafted who made the AA team was Sam Fisher who was pick 55 in 2003 (good value) and made the team in 2008. 20+ years of drafting without really developing.
For me, for Brisbane win, Neale must have a big game and they need 6 out of Daniher/Hipwood. Andrews should have a big influence and Starcevich will nullify Papley
If it’s Sydney they need 2 of their 3 match winners to have a massive influence, Papley needs to kick 2 or 3 and Grundy to dominate
Verdict
Sydney by 12
Brisbane mids will not be able to be so proactive with Oscar out
Heeney will be important
I feel like the 3 weeks of finals for Brisbane will start to take its toll in the 2nd half on Saturday
Sydney have had 2 home finals. Brisbane have had to play 2 finals away from home the last two weeks. That means that after each game in the last 2 finals their recovery has had to be somewhat delayed because they needed to jump on an aeroplane.
Last week after beating Geelong they were on an aeroplane at midnight. Sydney players were probably unwinding and ready for bed while Brisbane players wouldn't have got to sleep until 3-4 in the morning
The Sydney champions will come good and I think one of their young guns has a huge game - Gulden wins the Norm Smith
I've already stated my reasons for Sydney winning, but I've got a strange feeling it'll be a great contest. Should be a cracker and close on the scoreboard for the first 3 quarters. Brisbane fade in the last.
Realistically the AFL should run the academies, not the clubs.
When a club has some guaranteed selections they will put more time and effort into the top few players in that group, and get better individuals out of it, at the expense of the rest.
Father son rule also exploits this, and i'm not a fan of it.
Scollop wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2024 6:36pm
Should have been a closer contest when you consider that these teams played against each other in Round 19 at the Gabba and only 2 pts in it.
I don't think anyone can say that we saw the best out of the Swans players.
That's disappointing for neutrals but even more sad and tragic for Sydney Swans supporters
Horse was gifted a very talented team in 2012 who probably could have coached themselves.
The number 1 job of a head coach is to prepare your players for the most important game of the year. Horse has failed to do that twice now
That's 4 lost grand finals with 3 by 60+points. Credit getting back there regularly over an extended period, but being comfortably out coached on the day hurts any legacy
CURLY wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2024 7:50pm
Now the Lions have to cope with another number 1 kid next season.
Geez you’re a sad, bitching, moaning, crying, paranoid little man with the largest inferiority complex I have ever encountered.
If it is true that you are involved in young player development it is disappointing that people with your defeatist mentality are allowed anywhere near developing young talent.
If you had any experience with elite sport you would understand the mindset and attitude of athletes that drive for success, most through injury or adversity at some stage of their journey.
But what would you teach them?
- the umpires cheat
- it’s an AFL conspiracy
- give up now
- private school is for the privileged and soft
God you are the biggest f***wit I think I’ve ever encountered, and not just online!
Anyway, glad the Swans lost
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
CURLY wrote: ↑Sat 28 Sep 2024 7:50pm
Now the Lions have to cope with another number 1 kid next season.
Geez you’re a sad, bitching, moaning, crying, paranoid little man with the largest inferiority complex I have ever encountered.
If it is true that you are involved in young player development it is disappointing that people with your defeatist mentality are allowed anywhere near developing young talent.
If you had any experience with elite sport you would understand the mindset and attitude of athletes that drive for success, most through injury or adversity at some stage of their journey.
But what would you teach them?
- the umpires cheat
- it’s an AFL conspiracy
- give up now
- private school is for the privileged and soft
God you are the biggest f***wit I think I’ve ever encountered, and not just online!
