Hits Outs and Ruckmen

[B.M]

Completely Overrated

Grundy AA Ruck vs Fort VFL ruckman

Hit Outs at HT
14-9 to Grundy
Clearances
17-13 Brisbane
Centre Clearances
10-6 Brisbane

[Dave McNamara]

Couldn't agree more B.M!

And in so many ruck contests, I reckon one would need the super sl-mo to work out who even got the tap.

[B.M]

It’s why recruiting big lumbering Ruckmen like Trent Knobel, Billy Longer and the like is futile

They MUST be able to play.

[Scollop]

Grundy was awesome today but not enough Sydney team mates switched on to make it a contest.

Neale, McCluggage, Ashcroft, and Jarrod Berry were on from the first bounce.

They were the top 4 possession getters in the first quarter. All these guys hunted the ball and probably only Dunkley was needed to be the one focused on defence and restricting his opponent.

It takes a lot of very very good planning against opposition sides during the year, but I reckon the Grand Final gets back to the basics of our game. Win first possession, share the footy, and execute well into forward 50.

Fagan simplified things for his players and had them mentally prepared to play at their best. Horse failed to do that

[SaintPav]

Shallow analysis.

Need to deep dive into the data a bit more (two levels) me thinks and needs to be combined with some video analysis before making firm conclusions.

[Otiman]

So if the hitouts don't matter, you want a ruckman that can influence around the ground. Is that the point you were trying to make?

[Scollop]

Shallow analysis.

Need to deep dive into the data a bit more (two levels) me thinks and needs to be combined with some video analysis before making firm conclusions.

Contested possessions were pretty even in the first quarter. Inside 50's were pretty even in the 1st quarter. Scores were tight

Uncontested possessions were dominated by Brisbane as were their inside 50's in the 2nd quarter . They also had more contested possessions.They were tough. Their tackle numbers were higher than Sydney in 2nd quarter.

207 disposals to Brisbane in the 1st half versus only 142 to Sydney. That's a huge difference

They controlled the footy but they were also bold. They kicked a big score up until half time... Game over

[B.M]

I think it’s the most overrated stat in footy

Brodie Grundy dominated hit outs today

Brisbane won by 60 and won clearance and centre clearance

So yeah, I want a ruckman who can influence around the ground

Clearances are 90% up to the Mids

[SaintPav]

Off Topic

Shallow analysis.

Need to deep dive into the data a bit more (two levels) me thinks and needs to be combined with some video analysis before making firm conclusions.

Contested possessions were pretty even in the first quarter. Inside 50's were pretty even in the 1st quarter. Scores were tight

Uncontested possessions were dominated by Brisbane as were their inside 50's in the 2nd quarter . They also had more contested possessions.They were tough. Their tackle numbers were higher than Sydney in 2nd quarter.

207 disposals to Brisbane in the 1st half versus only 142 to Sydney. That's a huge difference

They controlled the footy but they were also bold. They kicked a big score up until half time... Game over

Sure, but I was referring to ruckman generally.

I will give you an example of the value of ruckman:

Jolly and Ball in the 2004 Preliminary Final, particularly in the final quarter.

[B.M]

2004

Sydney weren’t even in the Preliminary Final
We played Port
Geel played Bris

We smashed Sydney in the Semi Final

[B.M]

2005

We were beaten by Sydney after being in front at 3q time
We stopped as injury took its toll

Ironically we won the Hit Outs 42-37

Schneider turned it on and did the damage

[B.M]

Best Players

StK: Dal Santo, Harvey, Hudghton, Jones
Gehrig, Baker, Montagna
Syd: O'Keefe, Hall, C. Bolton, J. Bolton,
Schneider, Kennelly, Ablett, Crouch,

[SaintPav]

2005

We were beaten by Sydney after being in front at 3q time
We stopped as injury took its toll

Ironically we won the Hit Outs 42-37

Schneider turned it on and did the damage

I meant 2005.

We obviously didn’t watch the same game.

Watch it again. It’s on YouTube

[B.M]

Jason Ball
14 hit outs 7 possessions
Darren Jolly
17 hit outs 9 possessions

Cain Ackland
22 hit outs 6 possessions
Jason Blake
14 hit outs 10 possessions

Lenny 3 hit outs, Roo 1 hit out

We won hit outs 42-37
We won clearances 36-35

No ruckman from either team named in the best players as I posted above

[SaintPav]

I prefer granular data.

[D.B.Cooper]

Jason Ball
14 hit outs 7 possessions
Darren Jolly
17 hit outs 9 possessions

Cain Ackland
22 hit outs 6 possessions
Jason Blake
14 hit outs 10 possessions

Lenny 3 hit outs, Roo 1 hit out

We won hit outs 42-37
We won clearances 36-35

No ruckman from either team named in the best players as I posted above

Centre bounce stats are relevant, but not around the ground hit outs in the “3rd man up” era.

[CURLY]

There’s clearances and then there’s clearances.

Stats don’t tell the whole story.

[B.M]

Especially if they don’t tell the story you want them to huh


Stats are only important if they support ones argument

[CURLY]

Especially if they don’t tell the story you want them to huh


Stats are only important if they support ones argument

Don’t rely on stats.

Never have stats don’t tell the whole story.

[B.M]

Coaches do - Ross does

Which stats are relevant is the key

Hit out stats are not at all relevant nor do the correlate with success. Otherwise Freo wouldn’t have lost when Sandilands was there.

Best Ruckman I’ve ever seen
Dean Cox - as good as another midfielder

[CURLY]

Coaches do - Ross does

Which stats are relevant is the key

Hit out stats are not at all relevant nor do the correlate with success. Otherwise Freo wouldn’t have lost when Sandilands was there.

Best Ruckman I’ve ever seen
Dean Cox - as good as another midfielder

As I posted there’s clearances then there’s clearances.

[B.M]

What % of clearances are a clean direct take away as a result of a Hit Out?

[CURLY]

What % of clearances are a clean direct take away as a result of a Hit Out?

No idea.

[B.M]

At a guess and going by HO to advantage stats I’d say 10-15%

So if a ruckman has 30 HOs - 3->4 ende up as clean takeaways from their tap.

Gawn might be a bit higher? Maybe the big fella from GC Suns?

But it’s not significant

Scores from turnover dwarfs scores from stoppage as a source. At a stoppage defences are set. In a turn over opposition is running forward, and are not set behind the ball and can be scored against easier.

[nostalgicsaint]

At a guess and going by HO to advantage stats I’d say 10-15%

So if a ruckman has 30 HOs - 3->4 ende up as clean takeaways from their tap.

Gawn might be a bit higher? Maybe the big fella from GC Suns?

But it’s not significant

Scores from turnover dwarfs scores from stoppage as a source. At a stoppage defences are set. In a turn over opposition is running forward, and are not set behind the ball and can be scored against easier.

There is a reason ruckman aren't the best paid players in teams.

That said even using your stats. 10-15% of the time having a clear takeaway is worth plenty. Teams build their games around field position which a dominant ruckman definitely helps.

The scores from turnover are often generated from that field position dominance.