Ivan Soldo nominates St Kilda

[Killa]

Marshall is a class footballer who could play anywhere - but not so effective as a ruck feeding mids

So what about playing him CHB?

If I recall when St Kilda first laid eyes on him in the VFL he was playing CHB

And he could issue the challenge of chase me around the ground

This leaves room for King and Caminiti in attack along with Sharman and Owens

[spert]

If Soldo comes to us, it may mean one of Membrey and Hayes will be let go, as Marshall would spend more time as a forward ruck

[takeaway]

Soldo's a better option than Campbell, isn't he? So that's a list improvement.

[magnifisaint]

He's a bang and crash ruckman a bit like Vidovic. He will help the midfielders. He can negate Meek,Darcy, Oscar McInerney a couple of other beasts. I agree that Ned Reeves might be better value.

[cwrcyn]

We saw how Marshall really struggled against McInerney. The extra bit of height and weight that Soldo possesses would make him potentially more effective. Marshall doesn't possess a big leap

[cwrcyn]

The thought of using Marshall up forward for more than half the time is pretty enticing. Would be a nightmare for opponents

[SinCitySainter]

Roma is a first ruck not a forward, he is at his best around the ground.
We played him as a second ruck and primary forward when we had Ryder as first ruck.
Roma was ineffective as a full time forward/relief ruck but Ryder made up for the short falls so as a combination it worked.
As a tap Ruckman Soldo is nowhere nearly as good as Ryder and only fractionally better than Marshall.
Roma is however one of our best clearance players and covers a huge amount of ground.
Bringing in Soldo as number one ruck will end up weakening our midfield while not improving our forward structure at all.

[Sanctorum]

Great post Dave. I agree with 95% of your analysis

I have argued against us picking up Mcrae. I wanted the club to take the slow and steady road and pick as many talented youngsters and take advantage of the draft before Tasmania comes into the competition.

However...if the coach is genuinely trying to win the flag (and not just save face for the next two years) then why get 1 senior player...why not get 3 senior players!!

We know how Lyon thinks - he wants experience to support this current group of senior mature players.

It's a huge risk... it's unreasonable to expect St Kilda to come from nowhere and make a Grand Final in the next 2 years, but ...if they're going down the path of 'why not us' AND 'let's top up and go for broke'...then don't be halfarsed about it.

It's going to feel a little similar to the end of 2020 when we we traded in Crouch and Higgins plus Chip Frawley, Sean McKernan, and Paul Hunter. Most fans were thinking at that time that it was the right move. We made a Semi final in 2020 and we had the potential to go all the way that year.

Ivan Soldo or someone of his ilk is needed if they recruit senior guys like Mcrae and Tomlinson.

I also feel like Rowan needs some relief in about 4 or 5 games a year.

Not that RoMa can't play 24 games as the full time ruckman, but because I think he isn't suited to a handful of crash and bash ruckmen (GWS's Briggs, the Crows Reilly O'Brien, Dockers Darcy, Lions McInerney etc.) and we need a different option for these handful of games.

The club knows which game and which opposition Marshall has struggled against, so we could definitely use a big bloke like Soldo

I'd still play Rowan in all games if he's fit and good to go, but perhaps have Soldo go up against these other big blokes as the first ruck.

I think you're probably correct in your assessement of Ross Lyon's modus operandi Scollop.

Bringing in Ivan Soldo as a big tap ruckman reminds of the time I came down to Melbourne and watched St Kilda train at Moorabbin at the start of the 2008 season, when Ross Lyon sauntered over to the fence where we were standing and told us with a broad smile how happy he was to have Steven King and Michael Gardiner as the new ruck duo.

This was in direct contrast to his predecessor Grant Thomas who had eschewed the need for a good ruckman.

We know that this worked really well in the glory years 2008-2010.

St Kilda badly need a experienced tap ruckman to not only serve as a backup if Marshall goes down, but 'as required' in certain games to play them in tandem.

The suggestion that Soldo's arrival will stifle the development of either Heath or Keeler is, imho, an overreach.

Max Heath is 22 next year and is probably on track to emulate Hawthorn's outstanding first ruckman Lloyd Meek, who didn't play his first game of senior footy until he was 23.

So in essence all that the recruiters have done is bring in an upgrade on Tom Campbell, which surely is no big deal.

[Killa]

Campbell was bought in v PA to negate their ruck strength feeding their mids and to “free up” Marshall causing a problem to PA

It did not work and cost us the game

Look who got the Brownlow votes, running out of the centre and around the back of ball ups

Campbell’s papers were marked that day, Club man and all

And we lost by 2 points

Past that the objective to get Marshall into more potent positions both forward and back maintained, confirmed also by Marshall kicking goals, which he enjoys

[magnifisaint]

Roma is a first ruck not a forward, he is at his best around the ground.
We played him as a second ruck and primary forward when we had Ryder as first ruck.
Roma was ineffective as a full time forward/relief ruck but Ryder made up for the short falls so as a combination it worked.
As a tap Ruckman Soldo is nowhere nearly as good as Ryder and only fractionally better than Marshall.
Roma is however one of our best clearance players and covers a huge amount of ground.
Bringing in Soldo as number one ruck will end up weakening our midfield while not improving our forward structure at all.

Play him as a ruck rover.

[St Dave]

Interesting the speculation was he wanted to move for playing time given he clearly wouldn't be our number 1.

Maybe he is jaded by his playing time and hated Adelaide and just wants to come back to Melbourne and is ok to be backup here?

Or, real conspiracy hat on here, the rumours about Marshall being disgruntled earlier in the year have more truth around them than any of the players wanted to admit at the time, and the potential landing spot for Marshall might actually be able to meet our valuation so we are getting ahead of it with a replacement.

[CURLY]

So apparently according to some Marshall doesn't play as well with another ruck in the side.

How did the team go with Ryder?

[SinCitySainter]

So apparently according to some Marshall doesn't play as well with another ruck in the side.

How did the team go with Ryder?

The team went OK.
Ryder and Marshall were OK as a combination.
However, Marshall has been vastly improved since becoming the number one ruck so switching him back to a forward who is a support ruck will inevitably mean his output will drop.
This would be OK if we had Ryder as the other ruckman, however Soldo is not fit to clean Ryder's boots.

[Killa]

Ryder was a very highly skilled footballer as is Marshall

Imagine if we still had Ryder in 2024

[Leo.J]

Is there anything in the fact that King had his best season when we had a good tap ruckman?

[B.M]

Ryder

Good player

Massively overrated on here

[Killa]

The problem is that every St Kilda player rated is over rated according to the resident analyst

[Scollop]

The problem is that every St Kilda player rated is over rated according to the resident analyst

But he has a different attitude towards a 30 year old recruit that Ross and list management committee want to bring in...

He thinks he's elite. I think the 30 year old is definitely over rated

[B.M]

Am I the resident analyst?

Definitely not self proclaimed, must only be you that thinks that

I don’t rate Hit Outs very highly- ball comes off the ruckmans hand - still goes to a 50/50 hit outs to advantage happen (even accidental if the mid is talented!)

They are nice but statistically inconsequential

I prefer possession and marks, especially contested marks

Our midfield isn’t any good, NOT because of Marshall (he adds to the midfield) it’s no good because the mids are average players who don’t win the footy!

Ryder Averaged 8 possessions a game at StK
And actually not that many more hit outs than Marshall.

Marshall is a better player, hence his B&F finishes, his AA squad selection and his Brownlow votes (most by a ruckman!)

IMO he should’ve been AA ruckman - Gawns back end of the year was ordinary

[The G Train Legacy]

This makes little sense to me.

From Soldo's pov:
The bloke has another year on his contract, yet, he wants out because he can't get a game. If that's the case, why would he come to St Kilda??? (Hint to you Ivan. How many games did Tom Campbell end up playing for us?)

From St Kilda's pov:
I'm not sure why we'd want him? As good as he was in the VFL, last season, I reckon that Tom Campbell actually hindered Heath and Keelers' development. We really really need those blokes to be playing as our primary ruckmen when at Sandy, and as marking forwards when resting up there. Not Tom Campbell/Ivan Soldo.


Match day back ups for Marshall. We have The Hammer, and hopefully Hayes (really really hope we keep Jack). Oh, and Max King.

And if (heaven forbid) Marshall goes down, then we give Heath a taste of being first ruck, so we can finally get an idea of what he may be able do.

I also want Keeler in there. Key forward and second ruck. (Do not waste him in defence! He's not a defender anyway.) Hopefully he'll pull the finger out, and next season start to show the comp' something of what he can do. Because IMHO, that bloke has more (potential) upside than anyone on our list. Yes. Anyone.

Nas' is the goods. Poe' is now looking the goods too. And if Keeler, Owens and Collard can get their acts together... we'll win flags! Yes, they are that talented!

Oh, and if Max King gets his act together too... we'll be unstoppable.

At the end of the day Soldo is an upgrade on Campbell. Perhaps his attitude is that he'd prefer not getting a game in Melbourne rather than Adelaide. We don't yet know what Heath and Keeler can do at AFL level. Keeler I feel needs a bit more development. Didn't they start to play him forward at Sandy in the last few games?

You're right in getting excited about the youngsters you mentioned. however, you forgot Garcia.

[Bruce G McAbee]

Just a reminder, when we played Brisbane at the Gabba, we had both Campbell and Roma and we were incredibly competitive and, with a bit of luck, could have pinched the game.
Campbell nullified the big O's ruck work and we were getting centre clearances.
Now, compare the game against the Lions when we just had Marshall, and Oscar killed us and Brisbane never looked like losing.
If Soldo comes cheap, then yes as we can use him as backup for Roma against those monster ruckman and have Roma go up against their second string ruckman and resting forward.
However, Heath has to show something next year to see if will develop into a good competitive ruckman.

[B.M]

The way I judge a ruckman

Would they be getting a game if they were 6”2’ or are they just playing AFL because of their height

Great ruckmen are great footballers not just big and tall

[The G Train Legacy]

The way I judge a ruckman

Would they be getting a game if they were 6”2’ or are they just playing AFL because of their height

Great ruckmen are great footballers not just big and tall

I think there's an assumption that Soldo will ruck and Marshall will play more as a forward. In reality, I doubt that will happen. I think Soldo will mainly be a back up. Heaven forbid, if we lose Marshall all we've got in reserve is two untried kids.

Although Marshall's tap work could be better, his influence as a ruckman/follower is enormous. I can't see that changing.

[The_Dud]

Why would Soldo leave one club because he's not getting a game just to go to another where he wouldn't get a game?

[Mr Magic]

Maybe Soldo prefers to live in Melbourne rather than Adelaide?