Jack McCrae

[Brunswicksainter]

The commentary is that we require further centre square and contest mid-field options, so adding to the established Steele then Clark, Phillipou and Windhager where our potential lies.

Past that we were missing Crouch and playing Jones and Dow.

Asking if Henry is a genuine mid.

And if Owens is a genuine mid.

And, in the optimum side, in my view, Sinclair does what he does from the back half, complementing Wanganeen-Milera.

To me McRae is in competition with Jones and Dow who were both performed adequately across the close of the season but not to a level which affords them more than an adequate rating which identifies room for improvement and as an insurance policy for Crouch.

And IF he performs to anywhere near his 3 x AA selections, guess what?

There are plenty of 30 year old plus players around the League and still performing.

The kids starting with Garcia have a long way to go.

Of course, we gave WB Coffield.

I don’t think macrae is genuine inside mid anymore, will play more half fwd as he has done for the past few years. Displayed he doesn’t have a tank nor speed to play a season as a mid.

[spert]

Hawthorn players would not be where they are in their development if the Hawks had stuck with Jordan Lewis, Tom Mitchell, Jaeger O'Meara and Liam Sheils.

Will Day, James Worpel, Dylan Moore, and Jai Newcombe have taken on senior midfield roles and thrived. Nash, McDonald, Maginness and even Ward have had opportunities to grow.

They were prepared to get rid of their former champions and best and fairest winners to advance the improvement of their young team.

We want to hold back the progression of our young players to import an older player who is on the slide

The older guys were needed while the young fellas developed physically and developed their games- there's no substitute for a hardened AFL body, and they still had a reasonable midfield then, and gradually the young guys get their chance in the seniors and show enough to the coach, then the older brigade are eased out.

[CURLY]

He lacks leg speed. That's why he's on the decline.

Beveridge and the Dogs match committee aren't dumb. Mcrae may not have the body to play for the next 3 seasons. That's why they played him as a sub this year. That's why James Harmes was preferred. It didn't work but nothing really did against the rampaging Hawthorn in the final

He is currently contracted for the next 3 years. My fear is that we pick him up and we get stuck with him for 3 years

Does Ross and SOS think we're going to challenge soon?

Most likely yes.

Why wouldn’t they.

If you think Mcrae can deliver the Saints a flag, you're just as delusional as Ross and SOS. The difference for our team improving is going to come from our youth

Scollop knows better than Lyon and SOS.



Our transition from defence into attack is poor. A link up work horse like McCrae will help rectify that.
Pou Wndy Clark Wilson will only benefit from that.

[SaintPav]

Gunby Allan special?

[Scollop]

Our transition from defence into attack is poor. A link up work horse like McCrae will help rectify that.
Pou Wndy Clark Wilson will only benefit from that.

That's weird. People were talking about centre clearances and using him as an inside mid when this thread started.

So you're saying Mcrae will take on Hilly's role and Liam Henry's role (or Wood and Byrnes role) and possibly Steele and Sinclair's role. Riiiiiiighht

Our transition from defence into attack improved markedly for the last 8 rounds of the year. Dougal Howard, Liam Henry, Mason Wood and Jimmy Webster missed large chunks of the year. You started a thread specifically mentioning these players once we beat Sydney.

Our centre clearances, our transition forward of centre and our stoppage work also improved once Clark returned. Hunter Clark was also crucial as part of our return to good form for our last 8 rounds.

We don't need Jack Mcrae. He's nowhere near the athlete of Henry, Hill or Wood or Byrnes.

Incidentally...we also had a 'different' Mattaes Phillipou returning to senior footy in that match against the Swans. Note the guys who I mentioned in the coaches votes.

VOTES
10 Mattaes Phillipou (STK)
4 Chad Warner (SYD)
4 Liam Henry (STK)
3 Isaac Heeney (SYD)
3 Bradley Hill (STK)
2 Callum Wilkie (STK)
2 Oliver Florent (SYD)
1 Rowan Marshall (STK)
1 Jack Steele (STK)

[Beno88]

This reminds me of when we recruited Paddy Ryder.

Most fans, including me, suggested it was a poor call. Let Marshall develop with full responsibility, Ryder will be a list clogger. Yet in the end, Paddy was a huge asset. Marshall improved out of sight under Paddy’s tutelage. We all hoped he’d play on rather than retire.

Jack Macrae could easily repeat this scenario, and as a premiership player, B&F winner, three time AA, and Gary Ayres medalist, his influence on our young mids will be of immense value.

[Scollop]

Marshall improved out of site under Paddy’s tutelage.

Yeah...of course. Marshall was struggling before Ryder arrived

https://www.saints.com.au/news/246422/m ... rker-award

[SaintPav]

Centre clearances are a big problem. Hopefully this will go a long way to fixing it.

[Scollop]

Alright stuff it.

In Ross and SOS I trust. I understand the need to save certain officials reputations

Let's go for broke and try and make an elimination final in 2025. If we get there and lose at least we can say it was worth getting Mcrae.

I'll also get onboard at the end of next year....I won't praise the improvement in the team from our youth. I'll acknowledge that without Jack Mcrae, we wouldn't have made the finals in 2025

[nostalgicsaint]

Fwiw the year I shared his, was last year.

It wasn't a decade ago he was a 30+ possession midfielder who won more clearances per game than Steele did this year- it was last year.

I love Steele but he needs support. Support a player like this can give him and costs us a bag of chips.

Yes he didn't achieve it this year.

This year he also had an interrupted preseason and then was regularly played out of position by a coach who has one of the best lists in the competition but isn't playing finals.

[Rocket]

Be good to see stats re McRae and centre clearance ?

You may recall we were 11-2 against Brisbane at one stage and circa 8-2 against Cats at Half time. We were absolutely smashed in this area most games.. If McRae and others can help with this it goes a long way to improving…

[repta]

So is the signal that Crouch is done?

Macrae is a has been. 1 year cover at beat. Other than that his days are done. Inside mids fall off the cliff faster than any other position.

Ryder was bought in for a purpose to protect and develop Marshall and it worked perfectly. Very different scenario to Macrae positional powers.

[skeptic]

So is the signal that Crouch is done?

Word is… just from social media know it alls, an announcement is imminent and that both he and the club will figure out some type of deal for his last year

[Scollop]

Fwiw the year I shared his, was last year.

It wasn't a decade ago he was a 30+ possession midfielder who won more clearances per game than Steele did this year- it was last year.

I love Steele but he needs support. Support a player like this can give him and costs us a bag of chips.

Do you know what year we're in?

You compared Mcrae in 2022 with Steele in 2024.

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 7#p2077857

Steele was being asked to do everything this year. He's usually tagging the opposition's best players every single game.

Steele had an uninterrupted season in 2021...ie No serious injuries whatsoever. So why not compare 2021 Steele with 2021 Mcrae. Guess what? Steele beats him in centre clearances.

In 2022 Steele suffered a broken collar bone and had knee issues. In 2023 Steele suffered a serious shoulder injury in round 2, had ankle problems and had surgery post season.

Steele is also younger. Anyhow...you can keep thinking what you like. I think Ross Lyon is back to his old tricks, except this time around it's a selfish face saving exercise and not a serious tilt at a flag.

https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda ... c-10158692

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1031444/sta ... pre-season

[Scollop]

What sort of support do you reckon Mcrae will provide? The kind that says, he'll try and get first hands on the footy and then he relies on everyone else to defend and chase and do the tagging?

Dow and Clark can do that easily can't they?

How did Jack Mcrae go this year when Bevo asked him to do the tagging role or be more responsible for an opponent?

e.g Round 8 game at Marvel vs Hawthorn. Mcrae played for 4 quarters. He had the job on Jai Newcombe most of the time. Hawthorn won and Jai kicked a goal on him.

Mcrae had little impact in the game. He was behind Treloar, Bontempelli, Libba, Ed Richards and Harmes who all scored more ranking points. Near the latter stages of the last quarter Libba copped his second head knock for the game and he went off and took no further part in the match. In the dying minutes when there was only 1 goal separating the sides, Bevo preferred Williams, Harmes and his younger players to stay out there (along with Bont, Treloar, Richards) instead of Mcrae. Mcrae was benched for 2-3 minutes before the final siren.

Didn't St Kilda already go down this path of ready made senior players in 2017 and again in 2021? Why are we so desperate to finish 7th or 8th next year? Mcrae is not the answer to St kilda winning the premiership...only perhaps CURLY and a few desperate optimists believe that he's going to change our fortunes.

Why do we want to sacrifice the development of our current squad?

Why are we changing our strategy of rebuilding the list for the longer term? How do you expect the young players to grow if they don't get regular games together? How come things have changed after just 2 years under Lyon?

All Mcrae does is add some depth which can be easily covered with Byrnes, Hugo Garcia, Gus Hastie and Zak Jones. Mcrae is not the star player he used to be. Don't get sucked in by his list of achievements or what he produced at his peak. It's all downhill from here baby

[nostalgicsaint]

No one has said he is a star.

What has been said is he is a player who wins clearances.

A weakness of ours.

Also wasn't having a crack at Steele but your combativeness can't see past the red mist to realise that.

[SaintPav]

So is the signal that Crouch is done?

Word is… just from social media know it alls, an announcement is imminent and that both he and the club will figure out some type of deal for his last year

Brad just started a full time role at Colliers.

He’s done.

[Beno88]

So is the signal that Crouch is done?

Word is… just from social media know it alls, an announcement is imminent and that both he and the club will figure out some type of deal for his last year

Brad just started a full time role at Colliers.

He’s done.

Arthritis in his knee. Might play a little suburban footy, but won't be at St Kilda in 2025.

[The_Dud]

Dan Hannerbry 2.0?

[CURLY]

What sort of support do you reckon Mcrae will provide? The kind that says, he'll try and get first hands on the footy and then he relies on everyone else to defend and chase and do the tagging?

Dow and Clark can do that easily can't they?

How did Jack Mcrae go this year when Bevo asked him to do the tagging role or be more responsible for an opponent?

e.g Round 8 game at Marvel vs Hawthorn. Mcrae played for 4 quarters. He had the job on Jai Newcombe most of the time. Hawthorn won and Jai kicked a goal on him.

Mcrae had little impact in the game. He was behind Treloar, Bontempelli, Libba, Ed Richards and Harmes who all scored more ranking points. Near the latter stages of the last quarter Libba copped his second head knock for the game and he went off and took no further part in the match. In the dying minutes when there was only 1 goal separating the sides, Bevo preferred Williams, Harmes and his younger players to stay out there (along with Bont, Treloar, Richards) instead of Mcrae. Mcrae was benched for 2-3 minutes before the final siren.

Didn't St Kilda already go down this path of ready made senior players in 2017 and again in 2021? Why are we so desperate to finish 7th or 8th next year? Mcrae is not the answer to St kilda winning the premiership...only perhaps CURLY and a few desperate optimists believe that he's going to change our fortunes.

Why do we want to sacrifice the development of our current squad?

Why are we changing our strategy of rebuilding the list for the longer term? How do you expect the young players to grow if they don't get regular games together? How come things have changed after just 2 years under Lyon?

All Mcrae does is add some depth which can be easily covered with Byrnes, Hugo Garcia, Gus Hastie and Zak Jones. Mcrae is not the star player he used to be. Don't get sucked in by his list of achievements or what he produced at his peak. It's all downhill from here baby

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

[Scollop]

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

Don't you like logical debate?

What annoys me is the commentary regarding our 'centre clearances' early in the year...We were missing many of the regulars and there were injuries and suspensions.

It took a while to get continuity. Was it a fluke that we won 6 out of our last 8 games? No it wasn't. We had a consistent group in there who knew their roles and there was the realisation that Crouch and Seb were finished.

Just when Phillipou and Clark and Dow are clicking as a midfield group, we want to change the mix and replace one of these blokes in the middle. Windhager is hopefully ready to go in 2025 and he's the missing piece in the midfield group as far as I'm concerned. Not Mcrae

Playing Mcrae instead of Hugo Garcia or Angus Hastie means it'll take Hugo and Angus 4 more years to become regulars.

Look at Ryan Byrnes. He's gaining confidence with every game he plays in the seniors. He's played 60 games and he's now at a level where he's getting used to the leading patterns and the voices and the habits of his teammates in the seniors.

These younger blokes have the leg speed required for the modern game. Liam Henry also comes into the side in 2025 and he's obviously going to give you what you need for transition and better inside 50 entries. Not Mcrae. Mcrae is too slow

Stocker and Owens also have midfield roles to play against certain teams where there's a match up that suits them. That is something they need for their development and it provides the versatility we need as a team if we're going to challenge for a flag in 3-4 years time

Bring in players that will be around for at least the next 5 years. I'd prefer Peatling or Kennedy. If Ross Lyon thinks Mcrae will help him win a flag in 2025, he's delusional.

[CURLY]

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

Don't you like logical debate?

What annoys me is the commentary regarding our 'centre clearances' early in the year...We were missing many of the regulars and there were injuries and suspensions.

It took a while to get continuity. Was it a fluke that we won 6 out of our last 8 games? No it wasn't. We had a consistent group in there who knew their roles and there was the realisation that Crouch and Seb were finished.

Just when Phillipou and Clark and Dow are clicking as a midfield group, we want to change the mix and replace one of these blokes in the middle. Windhager is hopefully ready to go in 2025 and he's the missing piece in the midfield group as far as I'm concerned. Not Mcrae

Playing Mcrae instead of Hugo Garcia or Angus Hastie means it'll take Hugo and Angus 4 more years to become regulars.

Look at Ryan Byrnes. He's gaining confidence with every game he plays in the seniors. He's played 60 games and he's now at a level where he's getting used to the leading patterns and the voices and the habits of his teammates in the seniors.

These younger blokes have the leg speed required for the modern game. Liam Henry also comes into the side in 2025 and he's obviously going to give you what you need for transition and better inside 50 entries. Not Mcrae. Mcrae is too slow

Stocker and Owens also have midfield roles to play against certain teams where there's a match up that suits them. That is something they need for their development and it provides the versatility we need as a team if we're going to challenge for a flag in 3-4 years time

Bring in players that will be around for at least the next 5 years. I'd prefer Peatling or Kennedy. If Ross Lyon thinks Mcrae will help him win a flag in 2025, he's delusional.

So where did Pou develop his midfield game then?

[Scollop]

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

Don't you like logical debate?

What annoys me is the commentary regarding our 'centre clearances' early in the year...We were missing many of the regulars and there were injuries and suspensions.

It took a while to get continuity. Was it a fluke that we won 6 out of our last 8 games? No it wasn't. We had a consistent group in there who knew their roles and there was the realisation that Crouch and Seb were finished.

Just when Phillipou and Clark and Dow are clicking as a midfield group, we want to change the mix and replace one of these blokes in the middle. Windhager is hopefully ready to go in 2025 and he's the missing piece in the midfield group as far as I'm concerned. Not Mcrae

Playing Mcrae instead of Hugo Garcia or Angus Hastie means it'll take Hugo and Angus 4 more years to become regulars.

Look at Ryan Byrnes. He's gaining confidence with every game he plays in the seniors. He's played 60 games and he's now at a level where he's getting used to the leading patterns and the voices and the habits of his teammates in the seniors.

These younger blokes have the leg speed required for the modern game. Liam Henry also comes into the side in 2025 and he's obviously going to give you what you need for transition and better inside 50 entries. Not Mcrae. Mcrae is too slow

Stocker and Owens also have midfield roles to play against certain teams where there's a match up that suits them. That is something they need for their development and it provides the versatility we need as a team if we're going to challenge for a flag in 3-4 years time

Bring in players that will be around for at least the next 5 years. I'd prefer Peatling or Kennedy. If Ross Lyon thinks Mcrae will help him win a flag in 2025, he's delusional.

So where did Pou develop his midfield game then?

"I said to Lenny I have no doubt I wouldn’t have been in this quick if it wasn’t for his support and guidance "
- Mattaes Phillipou

Do you want Pou to go back to the VFL? I'm sure Lenny is there every day at training

Do you want Windy and Dow and Clark to play VFL?

How do you fit 25 players into the senior line up? Liam Henry and Windy are the missing pieces as far as I'm concerned.

I know you want Byrnes to go back to the VFL

Anyhow...like someone else mentioned...I don't think Mcrae replaces Byrnes. He probably replaces Dow

CURLY: Straight up...Who do you prefer for the next 3 years...Paddy Dow or Jack Mcrae?

[CURLY]

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

Don't you like logical debate?

What annoys me is the commentary regarding our 'centre clearances' early in the year...We were missing many of the regulars and there were injuries and suspensions.

It took a while to get continuity. Was it a fluke that we won 6 out of our last 8 games? No it wasn't. We had a consistent group in there who knew their roles and there was the realisation that Crouch and Seb were finished.

Just when Phillipou and Clark and Dow are clicking as a midfield group, we want to change the mix and replace one of these blokes in the middle. Windhager is hopefully ready to go in 2025 and he's the missing piece in the midfield group as far as I'm concerned. Not Mcrae

Playing Mcrae instead of Hugo Garcia or Angus Hastie means it'll take Hugo and Angus 4 more years to become regulars.

Look at Ryan Byrnes. He's gaining confidence with every game he plays in the seniors. He's played 60 games and he's now at a level where he's getting used to the leading patterns and the voices and the habits of his teammates in the seniors.

These younger blokes have the leg speed required for the modern game. Liam Henry also comes into the side in 2025 and he's obviously going to give you what you need for transition and better inside 50 entries. Not Mcrae. Mcrae is too slow

Stocker and Owens also have midfield roles to play against certain teams where there's a match up that suits them. That is something they need for their development and it provides the versatility we need as a team if we're going to challenge for a flag in 3-4 years time

Bring in players that will be around for at least the next 5 years. I'd prefer Peatling or Kennedy. If Ross Lyon thinks Mcrae will help him win a flag in 2025, he's delusional.

So where did Pou develop his midfield game then?

"I said to Lenny I have no doubt I wouldn’t have been in this quick if it wasn’t for his support and guidance "
- Mattaes Phillipou

Do you want Pou to go back to the VFL? I'm sure Lenny is there every day at training

Do you want Windy and Dow and Clark to play VFL?

How do you fit 25 players into the senior line up? Liam Henry and Windy are the missing pieces as far as I'm concerned.

I know you want Byrnes to go back to the VFL

Anyhow...like someone else mentioned...I don't think Mcrae replaces Byrnes. He probably replaces Dow

CURLY: Straight up...Who do you prefer for the next 3 years...Paddy Dow or Jack Mcrae?

Its not a choice though is it? Play well you play seniors and seriously Dow or McCrae really.

[CURLY]

How does it stop the development of others? Ridiculous comment.

Don't you like logical debate?

What annoys me is the commentary regarding our 'centre clearances' early in the year...We were missing many of the regulars and there were injuries and suspensions.

It took a while to get continuity. Was it a fluke that we won 6 out of our last 8 games? No it wasn't. We had a consistent group in there who knew their roles and there was the realisation that Crouch and Seb were finished.

Just when Phillipou and Clark and Dow are clicking as a midfield group, we want to change the mix and replace one of these blokes in the middle. Windhager is hopefully ready to go in 2025 and he's the missing piece in the midfield group as far as I'm concerned. Not Mcrae

Playing Mcrae instead of Hugo Garcia or Angus Hastie means it'll take Hugo and Angus 4 more years to become regulars.

Look at Ryan Byrnes. He's gaining confidence with every game he plays in the seniors. He's played 60 games and he's now at a level where he's getting used to the leading patterns and the voices and the habits of his teammates in the seniors.

These younger blokes have the leg speed required for the modern game. Liam Henry also comes into the side in 2025 and he's obviously going to give you what you need for transition and better inside 50 entries. Not Mcrae. Mcrae is too slow

Stocker and Owens also have midfield roles to play against certain teams where there's a match up that suits them. That is something they need for their development and it provides the versatility we need as a team if we're going to challenge for a flag in 3-4 years time

Bring in players that will be around for at least the next 5 years. I'd prefer Peatling or Kennedy. If Ross Lyon thinks Mcrae will help him win a flag in 2025, he's delusional.

So where did Pou develop his midfield game then?

"I said to Lenny I have no doubt I wouldn’t have been in this quick if it wasn’t for his support and guidance "
- Mattaes Phillipou

Do you want Pou to go back to the VFL? I'm sure Lenny is there every day at training

Do you want Windy and Dow and Clark to play VFL?

How do you fit 25 players into the senior line up? Liam Henry and Windy are the missing pieces as far as I'm concerned.

I know you want Byrnes to go back to the VFL

Anyhow...like someone else mentioned...I don't think Mcrae replaces Byrnes. He probably replaces Dow

CURLY: Straight up...Who do you prefer for the next 3 years...Paddy Dow or Jack Mcrae?

Its not a choice though is it? Play well you play seniors and seriously Dow or McCrae really.