Battle

[samuraisaint]

I heard on SEN that Hawthorn may have to front load his contract so that he earns enough for St. KFC will get a pick in the first round of this year's draft. That is the best-case scenario.

[St Dave]

Saints want to try to get a 1st round compo pick, according to SaintsTV podcast.

Depends on how much $$ Hawks offer him.

The deal will be done on Oct 4 when trade window opens...

Not just that - age comes into it, length of contract Hawthorn give him, and his performances - i.e. Top 5 in the B&F.

I think we should be eligible for first round compo. a 25 year old key defender is worth a high draft pick. The club should fight if this isn't forthcoming.

The AFL will have a s*** storm on its hands if we don't get Band 1. The Club should go thermonuclear if we don't and make its expectations clear to the AFL now.
North got Band 1 (Pick 3) for McKay who is a very average key defender and clearly an inferior player than Battle.

The club have been agitating all year regarding the inequalities of the draft including father-sons, northern academies, priority picks and the points system of the drafting system (The only one I disagree with them on is the father-sons rule - if a kid wants to play for the same side his own father played 100 games for, I am all for it).

There is no way a 25 year old key defender, who has played 100 games for a club and will finish top 10 in our B&F and is commanding $950,000 for his current club can walk and his previous club ends up with a pick at number 29 because his preferred destination club can offer only $850,000. That is not equitable and not in line with market value. My understanding is that the length of the contract will come into the equation and that Hawthorn are offering a 6-year contract. That should trigger Band 1 compo IMHFO.

I agree, the romance of father sons is part of what makes it game special (even if the Saints don't benefit from it as much as others).

There are a couple of other posts on this and I found a link to a fox footy article from last year that explains the compo process and what we might expect to get. Basically the reported figure being offered by the Hawks was more that McKay last year, but to keep up with the increases in the salary cap it would need to be about 15% higher than McKay to stay in the same band. It is unlikely to be that much higher so we will probably slide to band 2.

That is pretty consistent with our reported last ditch effort to offer a little more to drive the Hawks offer up. The question is did they up their offer too?

[samuraisaint]

Saints want to try to get a 1st round compo pick, according to SaintsTV podcast.

Depends on how much $$ Hawks offer him.

The deal will be done on Oct 4 when trade window opens...

Not just that - age comes into it, length of contract Hawthorn give him, and his performances - i.e. Top 5 in the B&F.

I think we should be eligible for first round compo. a 25 year old key defender is worth a high draft pick. The club should fight if this isn't forthcoming.

The AFL will have a s*** storm on its hands if we don't get Band 1. The Club should go thermonuclear if we don't and make its expectations clear to the AFL now.
North got Band 1 (Pick 3) for McKay who is a very average key defender and clearly an inferior player than Battle.

The club have been agitating all year regarding the inequalities of the draft including father-sons, northern academies, priority picks and the points system of the drafting system (The only one I disagree with them on is the father-sons rule - if a kid wants to play for the same side his own father played 100 games for, I am all for it).

There is no way a 25 year old key defender, who has played 100 games for a club and will finish top 10 in our B&F and is commanding $950,000 for his current club can walk and his previous club ends up with a pick at number 29 because his preferred destination club can offer only $850,000. That is not equitable and not in line with market value. My understanding is that the length of the contract will come into the equation and that Hawthorn are offering a 6-year contract. That should trigger Band 1 compo IMHFO.

I agree, the romance of father sons is part of what makes it game special (even if the Saints don't benefit from it as much as others).

There are a couple of other posts on this and I found a link to a fox footy article from last year that explains the compo process and what we might expect to get. Basically the reported figure being offered by the Hawks was more that McKay last year, but to keep up with the increases in the salary cap it would need to be about 15% higher than McKay to stay in the same band. It is unlikely to be that much higher so we will probably slide to band 2.

That is pretty consistent with our reported last ditch effort to offer a little more to drive the Hawks offer up. The question is did they up their offer too?

Band 2 - particularly pick 29 is speculative. If that happens, I would like St. Kilda to use it on somebody like a midfielder from GWS - who we have done alright out of, or the Sydney Swans, another club who we trade well with. We really need to attract two pure midfielders this draft, and the club recognise this weakness at long last.

[ace]

Battle has been very good for us in the past three seasons. Very hard to replace.

No doubt we'll get screwed over with the change in the rules around compensation. Funny how the rules change in the very years we are in line to benefit. It's almost as if the AFL is watching our club and waiting for our turn to come and then proceeds to bend us over with malicious intent.

End of first round looks likely, which gives us little to play with in relation to securing the best midfielders and in relation to any possible trades

The AFL probably has not set the compensation band figures yet.
So they can look at what Battle received then set the band $1 above that.

[SaintPav]

Instead of making these abrupt changes to the rules every year, the AFL could have grandfathered these rule changes to overcome the perception of unfairness.

It's a Mickey Mouse operation run by two-bit amateurs.

[Yorkeys]

I'd suggest, if it hasn't already been, that a significant weight needs to be placed on an otherwise required player moving to a side that finished higher. Assuming we are serious about structural evenness. Band 2 does not cut it for equitable balance no matter how convoluted the algorithm.

[St Dave]

Saints want to try to get a 1st round compo pick, according to SaintsTV podcast.

Depends on how much $$ Hawks offer him.

The deal will be done on Oct 4 when trade window opens...

Not just that - age comes into it, length of contract Hawthorn give him, and his performances - i.e. Top 5 in the B&F.

I think we should be eligible for first round compo. a 25 year old key defender is worth a high draft pick. The club should fight if this isn't forthcoming.

The AFL will have a s*** storm on its hands if we don't get Band 1. The Club should go thermonuclear if we don't and make its expectations clear to the AFL now.
North got Band 1 (Pick 3) for McKay who is a very average key defender and clearly an inferior player than Battle.

The club have been agitating all year regarding the inequalities of the draft including father-sons, northern academies, priority picks and the points system of the drafting system (The only one I disagree with them on is the father-sons rule - if a kid wants to play for the same side his own father played 100 games for, I am all for it).

There is no way a 25 year old key defender, who has played 100 games for a club and will finish top 10 in our B&F and is commanding $950,000 for his current club can walk and his previous club ends up with a pick at number 29 because his preferred destination club can offer only $850,000. That is not equitable and not in line with market value. My understanding is that the length of the contract will come into the equation and that Hawthorn are offering a 6-year contract. That should trigger Band 1 compo IMHFO.

I agree, the romance of father sons is part of what makes it game special (even if the Saints don't benefit from it as much as others).

There are a couple of other posts on this and I found a link to a fox footy article from last year that explains the compo process and what we might expect to get. Basically the reported figure being offered by the Hawks was more that McKay last year, but to keep up with the increases in the salary cap it would need to be about 15% higher than McKay to stay in the same band. It is unlikely to be that much higher so we will probably slide to band 2.

That is pretty consistent with our reported last ditch effort to offer a little more to drive the Hawks offer up. The question is did they up their offer too?

Band 2 - particularly pick 29 is speculative. If that happens, I would like St. Kilda to use it on somebody like a midfielder from GWS - who we have done alright out of, or the Sydney Swans, another club who we trade well with. We really need to attract two pure midfielders this draft, and the club recognise this weakness at long last.

Band 2 should be end of first round and I don't think there is much father/son or academy mucking around this year (at least not as much as last year), so it should be around pick 20 which is good but obviously not ideal.

Band 3 is after our second round pick which is linked to Adelaide and should be around 25 I think. Still not too bad if the draft is deep but yeah maybe better used on a prospect not getting chances at another club

[SaintPav]

Wasn’t it Richo who put Battle back to begin with?

Then the slob started using him as a swing man and almost destroyed his AFL career.

The slob could never cut the mustard and never will.

So glad the club gave him the arse.

“Come on guys. Try harder”.

[D.B.Cooper]

I'd count the best and fairest votes now and announce Battle as the clear victor.
Surely our reigning B&F can't leave for a 2nd round compensation.

[BadRossco]

The AFL will not do us any favours in compensation but as we rely on their financial handouts we will have to cop it sweet

[The Fireman]

I’m OS and out of the loop

Did saints offer him a better offer ?

[sendmehomehappy]

There is no logic or certainly fairness, if the Battle transfer does not land the Saints a band 1 compo pick.

6 year contract
> $850K per year
To a team in the finals from a team that missed out: clearly strengthening Hawks and weakening us.
Transfer of a lesser back man in 2023 scored band 1.
One year after the largesse afforded to North.

Cannot believe AFL would not award band 1 for Battle: to do otherwise proves intent to harm St Kilda specifically.

[bigcarl]

So we’ve got a few options to replace Battle down back.

Caminiti? Played back this season at times. Has height, strength and long arms and is fairly agile for a big guy. Good mark. On the other hand, could develop into a pretty good key forward.

Schoenmaker? Apparently has work to do on the defensive side of his game, but offensively - with his rocket-launcher boot - is already a weapon. Does he have the physical strength to match it with opposition key forwards? Or is he more of a tall flanker?

Sharman? Coming along nicely as a forward and seems a natural goal-kicker. Has a big spring in his legs that makes him a dangerous proposition forward. Probably could also do the role at half back.

Owens? Maybe. Strong and competitive. Too attacking in his outlook? Perhaps takes the game on too much to be a defender.

King? Could he be a very tall intercept defender? Forward line seems to function well without him. An interesting one.

There’s probably others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.

It’s not as if we don’t have options.

What do people think?

[repta]

Awesome. Now i read the saints are into Adam Tomlinson.
A broken 31 year old that can't hold a place in the Melbourne team. He did play well against the saints however so makes sence.
That will probably drop the saints compo to Band 2 or 3.

[spert]

Awesome. Now i read the saints are into Adam Tomlinson.
A broken 31 year old that can't hold a place in the Melbourne team. He did play well against the saints however so makes sence.
That will probably drop the saints compo to Band 2 or 3.

Melbourne had an ordinary season but can't fit Tomlinson in- you have to ask the question about our interest. Sort of goes against the grain when Lyon is possibly chasing players past their use-by date.

[SaintPav]

Caminiti and Cordy are the most obvious replacements. I’d pass on the rejects as I’d prefer to put more time into Arie and the two moos.

We also need a lock down smaller defender to replace Webster in a year or two.

[silverhalo]

I'm sure we'll try and get a like for like for Battle in the trade period

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

No more geriatric cast offs from other clubs to temporaily plug holes. It's time to fully invest in the youth on our list, while targeting one or two FAs or possible trades of genuine quality.

We've got a good pool of draftees from the past few drafts (and hopefully this upcoming one), which is complemented by a high quality group of 28 to 30 year olds.

As for Josh Battle, he's not as big a loss than some are making him out to be. I can think of a number of current players I'd hate to lose before him. At least now we know what he is. We were just haggling over the price.

[Saints58]

I'm sure we'll try and get a like for like for Battle in the trade period

What about Leek Aleer he is 23 a KD and car't get a game at GWS due to there 3 KD ahead of him.

[The Fireman]

So what was the difference in offers …?

[silverhalo]

I'm sure we'll try and get a like for like for Battle in the trade period

What about Leek Aleer he is 23 a KD and car't get a game at GWS due to there 3 KD ahead of him.

Good suggestion, like him a lot

[Killa]

I took particular notice of Lyon’s comment in regards the speculation re Battle that he (Lyon) was not the List Manager - and then spoke of King and King’s importance to the side going forward

The reason for this is that, in my view anyway, Lyon does indeed have a close rapport with the List Manager and to the extent Lyon does have input on players including to the extent of responding to the media that Battle is a required player (with that instruction given to the List Manager)

Hence I would expect that Lyon and his Coaching panel have a contingency plan

Is that Caminiti who was given some exposure to defence and (again to me) appears to have the required determination to adjust?

And what do they see of Schoenmaker on the track and his progress?

I don’t think Sharman nor Cordy are the answers

Past that Keeler has the height - but a fair way to go particularly as a key defender

Or do they have an eye on someone not as yet on our List either from elsewhere or Drafting?

Someone mentioned a lock down defender for the premium small forwards of the competition so the position currently occupied by Webster in preference to Paton and I agree this is a need

2 First Round Draft Picks would not go astray and particularly if we can snag another Wanganeen-Milera, Phillipou or Wilson, so kids who immediately stand up playing all games in Season 1

This would add further excitement to the campaign

And we have Battle’s salary up our sleeve as a starter so how do we deploy that?

This is the future

[Killa]

And I would add for the point of conversation that the AFL was dominated by the “money Clubs” which recruited the likes of Platten, Motley, Kernahan, Bradley et al and that is just a few from SA

Look at who won premierships

So they bought in the Draft and the Salary Cap to make the competition equal going forward

The problem is that for a raft of reasons “equal” no longer features

And that goes to father/son

The AFL have to return to core - and that is that Drafting and Salary Caps are equalisation foundations and need to be restored for that fundamental reason

The problem is the power at the AFL Board Table where certain Clubs wield the power - and are driven by status and self interest (so money)

[Yorkeys]

And I would add for the point of conversation that the AFL was dominated by the “money Clubs” which recruited the likes of Platten, Motley, Kernahan, Bradley et al and that is just a few from SA

Look at who won premierships

So they bought in the Draft and the Salary Cap to make the competition equal going forward

The problem is that for a raft of reasons “equal” no longer features

And that goes to father/son

The AFL have to return to core - and that is that Drafting and Salary Caps are equalisation foundations and need to be restored for that fundamental reason

The problem is the power at the AFL Board Table where certain Clubs wield the power - and are driven by status and self interest (so money)

More credit to Luke Beverage then for keeping the Dogs competitive for a nice stretch of time.

I think Saints employed both Luke and Adam Kingsley yet were unable to appreciate and/or utilise their talents.

The lack of intelligence at the club from 2009 to appointment of Ross/ Bassett presidency has to be a classic case study in hopeless decision making or not making complacently as the cases may be.

Not surprising its taking years to undo the mess.

[spert]

And I would add for the point of conversation that the AFL was dominated by the “money Clubs” which recruited the likes of Platten, Motley, Kernahan, Bradley et al and that is just a few from SA

Look at who won premierships

So they bought in the Draft and the Salary Cap to make the competition equal going forward

The problem is that for a raft of reasons “equal” no longer features

And that goes to father/son

The AFL have to return to core - and that is that Drafting and Salary Caps are equalisation foundations and need to be restored for that fundamental reason

The problem is the power at the AFL Board Table where certain Clubs wield the power - and are driven by status and self interest (so money)

More credit to Luke Beverage then for keeping the Dogs competitive for a nice stretch of time.

I think Saints employed both Luke and Adam Kingsley yet were unable to appreciate and/or utilise their talents.

The lack of intelligence at the club from 2009 to appointment of Ross/ Bassett presidency has to be a classic case study in hopeless decision making or not making complacently as the cases may be.

Not surprising its taking years to undo the mess.

Many wasted years thanks to incompetence at the highest level of the club, and in the end we get a former coach from years ago, brought back to be the saviour of the club. I guess we have to get used to brain fades from those running the club- it's nothing new