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tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
Hopefully Ross puts some work into him in the off season and teaches him another trick, the comp has worked him out.
If it was 1990 he'd be able to just rely on his physical attributes but its 2024 and modern defence can easily account for deep tall forwards.
tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
Max would've dominated junior footy due to his height and reach.
Everything would've been easier for him than others.
That extra reach made a huge difference.
Now he's an adult, things are so much harder and he actually has to work harder than ever.
Great players find a way to get to the next level and dig deep to find something.
Reality is tough and he's in denial. He just wants it to be easier like it was as a junior.
Let him go to the Suns with his bro.
I wouldn't miss him at all
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
I have been involved in elite sports programs (not footy).
That to me is a very concerning statement as it indicates that Max lakes the mindset and mental toughness required for an elite athlete.
I'm sure the club would be working feverishly on this, if your statement is accurate.
There's only one rule in the jungle! When the LYON's hungry, he eats!
tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
I have been involved in elite sports programs (not footy).
That to me is a very concerning statement as it indicates that Max lakes the mindset and mental toughness required for an elite athlete.
I'm sure the club would be working feverishly on this, if your statement is accurate.
Some of the way it is manifesting is concerning, but it feels a bit strong to say he lacks what is required of an elite athlete, he is still young and needs to build that fortitude.
I can understand why the kid is frustrated, he is the clubs chosen one, successor to the Riewoldt crown (with no real back up no offense to coops and hammer), and had been growing year on year after long term injury, but then over the last two seasons he has put together at most 7 games in a row before his body lets him down. It is easier to be frustrated by all the little injuries putting roadblocks up when he should be finally taking that crown.
This is real armchair psychology too, but I imagine it is tough seeing how we have scored when he is missing over the last two years. Easy to be frustrated that he isn't out there joining in or that he isn't getting to that level when he is out there due to his body.
I am sure the club is working with him on his mental health and mindset. I hope he can get a good run next year.
No injured player comes off smiling. To impute mental frailty to Max based on available evidence is quackery. Recall games v WCE and Crowbars and Carlton, plenty others where he was magnificent under pressure.
We owe him a couple more skilled mids and a few seasons playing with Liam Henry and Wilson.
tony74 wrote: ↑Sat 03 Aug 2024 10:13am
I can 100% assure you we will not pay overs. Josh will do what’s best for his family-as he should
; yet the St Kilda footy club decade after decade cut loose great players often for little return
Like who? only ones I can think of the last 30 years is Hall and maybe acres. and Considering Hall wanted out and was not staying no matter what that leaves just one player Acres.....
Just a few:
Lappin ( all Aus & a GF after leaving) for Schwarze & Begley
Wakelin (148 more games, 2 xGF) for Hamill (98 games )
Everitt (120 more games, All Aus, Best & Fairest) for Ferguson (12 games) and pick #6 which we used on Brooks....
I could go earlier in our history or later
Then we get into all the player we let go because we just didnt value enough and have done well...there's a gold mine there.
tony74 wrote: ↑Sat 03 Aug 2024 10:13am
I can 100% assure you we will not pay overs. Josh will do what’s best for his family-as he should
; yet the St Kilda footy club decade after decade cut loose great players often for little return
Like who? only ones I can think of the last 30 years is Hall and maybe acres. and Considering Hall wanted out and was not staying no matter what that leaves just one player Acres.....
Just a few:
Lappin ( all Aus & a GF after leaving) for Schwarze & Begley
Wakelin (148 more games, 2 xGF) for Hamill (98 games )
Everitt (120 more games, All Aus, Best & Fairest) for Ferguson (12 games) and pick #6 which we used on Brooks....
I could go earlier in our history or later
Then we get into all the player we let go because we just didnt value enough and have done well...there's a gold mine there.
McEvoy, Dal Santo and Goddard.
It really concerns me, the statement of “not paying overs.”
We dug our heels in on players like Goddard and even Ball. How did that work out?
tony74 wrote: ↑Sat 03 Aug 2024 10:13am
I can 100% assure you we will not pay overs. Josh will do what’s best for his family-as he should
; yet the St Kilda footy club decade after decade cut loose great players often for little return
Like who? only ones I can think of the last 30 years is Hall and maybe acres. and Considering Hall wanted out and was not staying no matter what that leaves just one player Acres.....
Just a few:
Lappin ( all Aus & a GF after leaving) for Schwarze & Begley
Wakelin (148 more games, 2 xGF) for Hamill (98 games )
Everitt (120 more games, All Aus, Best & Fairest) for Ferguson (12 games) and pick #6 which we used on Brooks....
I could go earlier in our history or later
Then we get into all the player we let go because we just didnt value enough and have done well...there's a gold mine there.
Lappin was a drunk and had to go
Hamill transformed the club, wakelin was not missed - seriously??
Everitt was a cancer and had to go…..
whiskers3614 wrote: ↑Tue 06 Aug 2024 10:21pm
Got to keep powder dry to give $$ to Hill.
He's no where near his best. He's 31 years of age and looks weary.
11 possessions on Sunday.
He put in a few good performances early on in 2024 but he's showing signs this year that the end is near.
And yet they gave him a 3 year deal to somehow help him stumble over the line and get to 300 games. He'll be a list clogger in 2027.
Similar story with Geary in his last year...great leader to have around the club...I loved Gears but seriously ... wishful thinking signing him on for 1 year more than they should have.
For all those who want to trade Max King, I fear you'll be disappointed. It's not often you get a player with his unique physical attributes and football skills. Every club will be after him when he reaches FA. That's why the club is trying to secure him long term, as having him under contract will give the club greater power at the negotiating table, if it ever comes to that (not that it will).
If the club moves him on, he will be another potential A grader to play against us, not to mention the possibility that he might go to a club in its premiership window and he helps them salute.
The other posters on here have listed the players we let go and did exactly that. Others performed really well. For the enemies, not us.
Like other long term saints' supporters, I'm sick and tired of watching ex-saints develop, perform well and succeed for other clubs.
If Max goes, we can add his name to our list management and recruiting "Wall of Shame".
Then watch him reach his full potential elsewhere.
For once, if we are again asked to tolerate and endure another rebuild, let's at least do it properly. Don't become Norf.
"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
The_Dud wrote: ↑Wed 07 Aug 2024 9:52am
At some point a player has to actually start delivering, the club can't base its list management strategy on potential and 'what ifs'
I would argue that the way he has been developing, he has been delivering. Averaging around 2.5 goals over the two years to 2023 despite his injuries has been good for an early 20s guy, it is just this year that has been tough, maybe because he has only had a handful of games in a row before something new pops up.
To try to bring the thread back on topic, compare him to Battle's early seasons. Nothing I don't have a list of exactly where he was playing each year, Battle was developing ok over his first three years, then years 4 and 5 (2020/21) his performance took a dip and he played less games than the years before due to form or injury. He has always been one of my favorite players and I remember at the time being disappointed that he wasn't going to make it. Thankfully we stuck with him and since 2022 he has played 20+ games and has been settled in the backline and playing very well.
If Max can play 20+ games next year and still be at the level he had been at this year then I will be worried
tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
I have been involved in elite sports programs (not footy).
That to me is a very concerning statement as it indicates that Max lakes the mindset and mental toughness required for an elite athlete.
I'm sure the club would be working feverishly on this, if your statement is accurate.
Some of the way it is manifesting is concerning, but it feels a bit strong to say he lacks what is required of an elite athlete, he is still young and needs to build that fortitude.
I can understand why the kid is frustrated, he is the clubs chosen one, successor to the Riewoldt crown (with no real back up no offense to coops and hammer), and had been growing year on year after long term injury, but then over the last two seasons he has put together at most 7 games in a row before his body lets him down. It is easier to be frustrated by all the little injuries putting roadblocks up when he should be finally taking that crown.
This is real armchair psychology too, but I imagine it is tough seeing how we have scored when he is missing over the last two years. Easy to be frustrated that he isn't out there joining in or that he isn't getting to that level when he is out there due to his body.
I am sure the club is working with him on his mental health and mindset. I hope he can get a good run next year.
I hope all the players sort out whatever issues they have over the preseason, but as a lifelong Saints supporter, I'm over endless excuses for failure, and we have yet another season wasted and it's not all down to the players.
Should we be more concerned about the possibility of paying overs when it comes to keeping Battle, rather than the real possibility that we're paying overs for King right now (and may have been for years)?
And, in answer to tony74, Curnow wasn't a factor in last year's finals ... we similarly can't count on King "winning it for us," if we ever make it to the GF.
Battle doesn't worry about getting to the heights he sets for himself, and unlike King doesnt beat himself up if he fails (if that is what King is indeed doing).. because he bloody well makes sure he doesn't (fail). Part of it is getting your body right and/or having an AFL ready body ... and paying King overs isn't making his body any more resilient.
tony74 wrote: ↑Mon 05 Aug 2024 11:20pm
If and I stress if we make a Grand Final Max will be the reason we win. A big statement I know but he just needs a run at it without being injured. Have you ever thought that some of his behaviour is based solely on his frustration not to perform at the level he knows he has. Have a look at Curnow performances whilst struggling through injuries at the start of his career- rant over
Indeed. It would be an act of sheer insanity to trade him, not even for 3 first rounders. Big key forwards don't grow on trees. There aren't any good ones that are gettable and if you draft a kid, it takes them years to develop and get to their peak. He hasn't had a clean run with injuries since he started, including 2 significant shoulder injuries and he still needs to develop his forward craft. He will and when he does he'll be devastating.
His speed, skills and agility are extraordinary for a bloke that's 7 foot tall. I agree with what Lyon said in his presser on the weekend, with a decent midfield in front of him, King is an 80 goal a year forward. Easily!
In regard to 'sooking'. I do recall that Nick Riewoldt used to 'sook' a bit in his younger days too. Probably for the same reasons that Tony74 has explained in regards to Max.
Glad we're offering him an extension and looking forward to watch him when he gets going.
I take exception to those presenting that we are in rebuild phase
Simply, all Clubs seek to improve their List year on year
That is the competition
The likes of King, Clark, Owens, Windhager, Phillipou, Wanganeen- Milera, Wilson,
Henry and even Caminiti and Byrnes would rightly take exception to rebuild and look to ply their trade elsewhere seeking success
These players join the likes of Marshall, Sinclair, Wilkie, Howard, Steele, Wood, Battle fand Hill being our senior core (noting the age demographic versus most other sides)
Then we have our kids plying their trade at VFL, developing and challenging for AFL spots and consolidating at the level
We are not in rebuild, we are in development
And, given a better run with injuries and some judicious recruiting I look for us to be around the mark in 2025
and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
