Cal Wilkie vs Luke Penny and Max Hudghton

[saintbob]

Max, Wilkie and then Penny, but I remember being absolutely shattered when Penny went down.

[SydneySainter]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback

Not an AFL standard fullback

[CURLY]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback

Not an AFL standard fullback

Well thats just not true.

[The_Dud]

Dawson was an ordinary defender who benefitted from being in a great team surrounded by star players, he had a good half season when he arrived but dropped off after that.

Just reinforces my claim that an elite midfield is key as it can make B grade forward/back lines look better than they are.

[CURLY]

Dawson was an ordinary defender who benefitted from being in a great team surrounded by star players, he had a good half season when he arrived but dropped off after that.

Just reinforces my claim that an elite midfield is key as it can make B grade forward/back lines look better than they are.

That's just not true.

[SaintPav]

Dawson was not in the class of Cal, Max or others but he was a more than serviceable defender and the stats back that up. He played a few good finals as well for both the Saints and Fremantle.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... awson.html

Where does Jamie Shanahan sit in this conversation?

[Yorkeys]

Wasn't Jamie excommunicated after the 97 GF, never to be mentioned again. Unfairly of course. Stan, please explain.

[SydneySainter]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback

Not an AFL standard fullback

Well thats just not true.

I believe it is.

An AFL standard defender, no doubt. But an AFL standard fullback, he was not.

[D.B.Cooper]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback

Not an AFL standard fullback

Well thats just not true.

I believe it is.

An AFL standard defender, no doubt. But an AFL standard fullback, he was not.

What does that even mean?

Do you think he should have been in the back pocket on the resting ruckman? Or 19th man?Have we gone back in time to 1960’s?

For those bagging Zac, he was twice in his career voted best finals player, once in 2015 and once in 2010 when he shared the honor with Lenny Hayes.

A champion he was not, but he was a team player who committed to the contest and played his role.

[CURLY]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback

Not an AFL standard fullback

Well thats just not true.

I believe it is.

An AFL standard defender, no doubt. But an AFL standard fullback, he was not.

Zac paid the price for his early career mauling's while at Hawthorn. He was an excellent and more importantly disciplined key back. He pretty much had the best Key forward each week.

How many apparent gun key defenders do that each game?

[SydneySainter]

Max was an excellent key back. Zac was serviceable.

There is a difference Curly.

[CURLY]

Max was an excellent key back. Zac was serviceable.

There is a difference Curly.

Of course there is but don't downplay Zac Dawson. Can't remember having a key forward kick a big bag on him while he was with us.

[SaintPav]

That was also because we had an excellent team defence.

Cloke tore him a new one in the first half of the 2010 grand final. Lucky for Zac that Cloke didn’t kick straight.

Zac was a good pickup and played his role well.

[CURLY]

That was also because we had an excellent team defence.

Cloke tore him a new one in the first half of the 2010 grand final. Lucky for Zac that Cloke didn’t kick straight.

Zac was a good pickup and played his role well.

The old excellent team defence excuse.

Cloke took 9 marks across two games in the Grand Finals.

[SaintPav]

I said FH!

Excuse? WTF are you talking about now?

[SydneySainter]

Max was an excellent key back. Zac was serviceable.

There is a difference Curly.

Of course there is but don't downplay Zac Dawson. Can't remember having a key forward kick a big bag on him while he was with us.

Every key forward has a bag kicked on them, even if only sporadically. Even Max had his arse handed to him
By David Neitz on more than one occasion.

Petrie, Hall, J Riewoldt and of course Franklin had previously gotten the better of Dawson.

Doesn’t mean that I think he’s not a serviceable defender, I just wouldn’t all him excellent