“Innovate or perish: Why the numbers just don't stack up for Ross Lyon“

[Sainternist]

Rohan Connolly’s article provides a pretty strong argument in suggesting that RtB’s ultra defensive strategy simply can’t produce a premiership.

With our season now seemingly gone, it would be nice to think that Ross might start to experiment a little more and get the lads to try and play a more attacking style.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/ ... evelopment?

[Life Long Saint]

With our season now seemingly well and truly gone

Fixed it for you!

Didn't Rohan Connolly used to be a footy journalist?

[Jacks Back]

Yes, maybe experiment at moving the ball quicker like I thought we did at the beginning of last year. That WOULD be innovative.

[magnifisaint]

Rohan Colony should stick to following Essendon

[Devilhead]

We currently sit 13th for inside 50s

We average 50.7 .... the league average is 52.3

44% of the time we go i50 we have a shot at goal (we sit 14th) ... league average is 47.1%

For i50s against ... we sit 8th (least against)

Opposition average 50.3 against us .... league average is 52.3

49% of the time the opposition go i50 they have a shot at goal (we sit 14th) ... league average is 47%

Read into that what you will

[Devilhead]

Swap those around we have shots 49% of the time once we go inside 50 .... and the opposition only have shots 44% of the time once they go inside 50 ... we start winning

[Devilhead]

For Centre Clearances we average 10 a game (we sit 16th)

League average is 11.7

For Stoppage Clearances we average 25.5 (7th)

League average is 24.7

Combined Clearances we average 35.5 (13th)

League average is 36.6

Those low center Clearances numbers is due that in our games the ball doesn't go back to the center much (less goals kicked overall in our matches)

As the opposition Center Clearances average out at 10 as well (we are 2nd best here ...the lower the better)

So looking at Center Clearances we win 50%

Opposition Stoppages Clearances is at 25 per game so we are above the 50% there

Overall opposition Clearances is 35 so again we are slightly above

In reality for Clearances its currently a 50 / 50 split

Hopefully this improves with Crouch and Clark back in and Dow getting more time at stoppages and center bounces

[Otiman]

Hope is not a strategy. We need change in action to turn this bus around.

[Scollop]

Once we win the ball back from turnover we are bottom 4 for generating scores

When we win the footy from turnovers anywhere forward of centre, we are bottom 2 for scoring.

Our stoppage players either need to drive their legs and find space rather than kicking it blindly...or we need handballs to find players in space who can in turn get it in the hands of better decision makers like Steele, Sinclair and Hill

[Devilhead]

Hope is not a strategy. We need change in action to turn this bus around.

Well maybe Crouch and Clark back in fit with Higgins return is change we need to spark the playing & coaching group back into action

Guess we will see this week .... no excuses now with our best most experienced team available for selection

[The G Train Legacy]

The flaw in Connolly's argument is that when Lyon had as going as he wanted in 2009, we were No.1 in defence and 4th for offence, this slipped to 8th offensively in 2010 although we remained No.1 defensively.
The thing Connolly neglects to mention is that we didn't have Riewoldt for 12 weeks in 2010. If we had, we probably would have had a similar result for offence in 2010.
Then there's Freo, obviously don't know a lot about them, however they were hardly a stellar List that he got to the GF, whilst Hawthorn were a juggernaut. Yet if I recall correctly, if they had kicked straight, they would have rolled Hawthorn in the 2013 GF.
Then Connolly is getting a bit cute when he talks about Freo 2016. Their List was old by then and it was over for them, I believe they commenced a rebuild the following year.
So a bit of cherry picking from Connolly to suit his narrative.

[tony74]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

[The G Train Legacy]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Thanks Tony. Tell me, the only criticism I share with some on here regarding Ross, more quizzical than critical, is why Owens hasn't been tried in the midfield? Is it that he's needed forward of the ball; he's not ready to go into the middle or just isn't really a mid? Can you shed any light?

[Killa]

Whilst people are surprised at West Coast, what has decimated them over recent seasons has been injury to their experienced, class performers who remain from their most recent premiership

To those resources you add Kelly, recruited from Geelong at cost

They are getting their A Grade side on the park - plus they have the Number 1 Draft Pick who, from reports is exceptional

But he now has good support

West Coast are an example of the fragile Lists, containing kids who have not been exposed at the level including some who will be delisted without playing a game

With the health of our List improving look at the VFL result v Richmond who are now at where we have been this season in regards availability

It happens

And West Coast stayed with their Coach

Interestingly we play West Coast over there after playing Melbourne - who West Coast beat noting the loss of Lever

[bigcarl]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Thanks Tony. Tell me, the only criticism I share with some on here regarding Ross, more quizzical than critical, is why Owens hasn't been tried in the midfield? Is it that he's needed forward of the ball; he's not ready to go into the middle or just isn't really a mid? Can you shed any light?

Good question. I’d be interested in Ross’s opinion on this. Seems like an obvious move.

[tony74]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Thanks Tony. Tell me, the only criticism I share with some on here regarding Ross, more quizzical than critical, is why Owens hasn't been tried in the midfield? Is it that he's needed forward of the ball; he's not ready to go into the middle or just isn't really a mid? Can you shed any light?

Because he’s a bull and has very poor disposal. We have bulls-Crouch, Steele but we need speed and skill.

[Killa]

I am of the view that Owens should be allowed to develop as he is being developed

The reason?

As is mentioned, he excels in the contest

Where we have Steele and Ross who have been selected - so experience

I do not currently have a read on Owens leg speed so the ability to not only contest but initiate out of that contest (noting neither of Steele nor Ross are giving that dynamic currently)

Those who attend practice sessions may have a better read than me including how he is being trained

Having said that I note the work being done by Windhager

[Killa]

I am of the view that Owens should be allowed to develop as he is being developed

The reason?

As is mentioned, he excels in the contest

Where we have Steele and Ross who have been selected - so experience

I do not currently have a read on Owens leg speed so the ability to not only contest but initiate out of that contest (noting neither of Steele nor Ross are giving that dynamic currently)

Those who attend practice sessions may have a better read than me including how he is being trained

Having said that I note the work being done by Windhager

[bigcarl]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Thanks Tony. Tell me, the only criticism I share with some on here regarding Ross, more quizzical than critical, is why Owens hasn't been tried in the midfield? Is it that he's needed forward of the ball; he's not ready to go into the middle or just isn't really a mid? Can you shed any light?

Because he’s a bull and has very poor disposal. We have bulls-Crouch, Steele but we need speed and skill.

Thanks for that, appreciate the candour. I wouldn’t presume to know better than the club, but at least it’s an explanation for something I have found very puzzling.

My opinion, for what it is worth:

We haven’t had Crouch hardly at all this season and Steele is nowhere near the ball-winner he was pre-Ross. So we haven’t had a bull in the midfield at all. It should have been at least tried.

Not all inside mids are great with disposal, but the good ones are all good ball-winners. Rowan Marshall would be a good example of that. We allow him to blindly hack it forward, why not Owens? Plus, is Owens’ disposal really that bad? His kicking seemed ok on Saturday. Plus he’s the type of player who can lift the guys around him imo.

Again, just my opinion. I don’t live and die by the decisions after all.

[The G Train Legacy]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Thanks Tony. Tell me, the only criticism I share with some on here regarding Ross, more quizzical than critical, is why Owens hasn't been tried in the midfield? Is it that he's needed forward of the ball; he's not ready to go into the middle or just isn't really a mid? Can you shed any light?

Because he’s a bull and has very poor disposal. We have bulls-Crouch, Steele but we need speed and skill.

I see, thanks for that.

[Teflon]

As someone who witnesses training twice a week I can assure you it’s not the game plan. The training drills and ball movement are fast, in some cases kamikaze speed. It is basically all out attack. But obviously the defensive part of those drills are less than frantic as injuries would happen all the time. On game days the reverse is the case, the opposition put immense pressure on our ball carrier and we stutter. We just don’t have the players who are good enough to mirror our training drills to the match day. Yet. Simple.
So don’t blame the game plan or coach, blame the recruitment team from 3-10 years ago. All the pillars are now in place, we’ve waited 58 years, you can wait a couple more

Superb Tony - thank you
To all the lazy “half-assed journalists” (and halfwits on here including Trollope, BM, StPav,Spert and any other nuff nuff)
STFU with the coach / game plan dribble
It’s just NOT TRUE
I don’t want quick fixes - we’ve been down that road last 3-10 years
Turn em over Ross
Hit the draft hard
Gubby SOS - earn your money

[B.M]

God

Fk me dead

Tony has been on here for years backing in the coaches and the players. Did it with the previous 2 coaches.

Grain of salt

Proof is in the pudding - not their little drills they do at training which I’ve seen umpteen times

On Owens
You want the players with poor disposal (and yeah, Owens is a horrible kick) playing as an inside mid. They generally kick under extreme pressure and it’s just chunked anyway.

Not sure forward is the place to have a poor kick. But it’s better than the back 50 I suppose.


I’d play Owens 50/50

[nostalgicsaint]

Owens is developing well in the exact position he should play.

As a forward who can pinch hit in the ruck/on ball.

Last year both him and Pou delivered better footy as we didn't have to push as many players up to the contest as we are now to cover for our midfield weakness. That and they were underestimated by their opponents.

[Scollop]

Fair Dinkum tony74. No accountability again from coach/coaches.

Sounds like more excuses to me.

Joey highlighted several incidents (FoxFooty 'First Crack' - the vision shows players in good position being ignored). Players were free and chose to kick long to 50/50 contests instead of handballing to an easy target in front of them.

Are you saying instruction is clear and that players are not listening?

We have several players winning the footy (e.g. Windhager, Marshall) and just kicking it blindly forward instead of looking to hit up a target by hand who can then hit up a target by foot

You're piling all the current issues onto our playing group. That's weak

[Teflon]

Oh the sooks will hate the truth
It doesn’t suit the narrative