Sack Lyon

[Scollop]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in

You are changing Joey's message

His message was about connection forward of centre. He showed several examples where players weren't sharing the footy with someone in a better position

I understand that you want to defend your hero, but how about you listen to Leigh again before you misrepresent the truth

Joey also said that 'sharing' the footy needs to be the messaging at training.

As far as your 40 or so posts declaring our list as the being the problem... again it's all about making excuses for rtb and blaming losses solely on players.

Funny really. Last week on Thursday you were declaring us over the line against Freo... and last year... you thought our list was close to contending

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2006475

[nefron55]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in

You are changing Joey's message

His message was about connection forward of centre. He showed several examples where players weren't sharing the footy with someone in a better position

I understand that you want to defend your hero, but how about you listen to Leigh again before you misrepresent the truth

Joey also said that 'sharing' the footy needs to be the messaging at training.

As far as your 40 or so posts declaring our list as the being the problem... again it's all about making excuses for rtb and blaming losses solely on players.

Funny really. Last week on Thursday you were declaring us over the line against Freo... and last year... you thought our list was close to contending

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2006475

Hilarious for you to call someone out for posting a lot in defense of Lyon given the absolute tear you've been on the past few days here haha

And to be honest, you're misrepresenting Joey, not Teflon. Here is a direct quote:

"And what they struggle to do, Kingy, and I think it is a bit of personnel, they don't have players who can take the game from inside to outside and run and handball and draw [opponents] and give better looks."

He also said we've "tried everything" in terms of running different midfield groups to try to fix the problem -- a nod to the coach trying to find solutions.

And as for the comment on messaging at training, it was in direct response to Kingy asking if this was an issue that can "only" be fixed at the draft and through trades. And Joey noted that it can be improved at training but ended with saying you can only do that if you have the "confidence and ability" to do it.

[Scollop]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in

You are changing Joey's message

His message was about connection forward of centre. He showed several examples where players weren't sharing the footy with someone in a better position

I understand that you want to defend your hero, but how about you listen to Leigh again before you misrepresent the truth

Joey also said that 'sharing' the footy needs to be the messaging at training.

As far as your 40 or so posts declaring our list as the being the problem... again it's all about making excuses for rtb and blaming losses solely on players.

Funny really. Last week on Thursday you were declaring us over the line against Freo... and last year... you thought our list was close to contending

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2006475

Hilarious for you to call someone out for posting a lot in defense of Lyon given the absolute tear you've been on the past few days here haha

And to be honest, you're misrepresenting Joey, not Teflon. Here is a direct quote:

"And what they struggle to do, Kingy, and I think it is a bit of personnel, they don't have players who can take the game from inside to outside and run and handball and draw [opponents] and give better looks."

He also said we've "tried everything" in terms of running different midfield groups to try to fix the problem -- a nod to the coach trying to find solutions.

And as for the comment on messaging at training, it was in direct response to Kingy asking if this was an issue that can "only" be fixed at the draft and through trades. And Joey noted that it can be improved at training but ended with saying you can only do that if you have the "confidence and ability" to do it.

Very good. You’d make a good salesman or politician

Joey wanted to discuss 2 things. The misconception with where some of our problems lie regarding ball movement, and the need to train a better system.

He got his points across whether you want to admit it to them or not. If it doesn’t suit your narrative and your rock solid defense of your hero, that’s your problem. I repsect Joey. Knows what he’s talking about

https://omny.fm/shows/fox-footy-podcast ... w-did-hawk (approx.36.30)

Joey said their ball movement has been very good this year as far as from the back half to inside 50. We were basically AFL average for this stat in the match against Freo as well, but our problems were more specific.

The problem we have was scoring from turnovers in our front half (forward of centre). We are bottom 2 in the competition for scoring after winning the footy in our front half. The vision highlighted instances of selfish football.

King asked Joey if it’s personnel. Joey said personnel is half of it. That’s what he emphasised.

I got it wrong when I said ‘sharing’ the footy needs to be the messaging.

When King asked do you have to wait for two years of drafting and trades to fix that, Joey’s answer was specific again.

Joey said you can train it up….and the training will give you the confidence and ability to do it.

nefron55….LOL (hi Teffers)

[The G Train Legacy]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

Ratten's defensive systems were s*** and he didn't know where our List was at. So it had a bit to do with his coaching. In hindsight Richo was a better Coach.

[Scollop]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

Ratten's defensive systems were s*** and he didn't know where our List was at. So it had a bit to do with his coaching. In hindsight Richo was a better Coach.

You were going quite well up until you said “ Richo was a better Coach.”

[magnifisaint]

Farken hell. Sack Lyon and replace him with who?
That's been St Kilda's story for the last 100 years and it's yet to work. In the eyes of Einstein this is the definition of insanity!

[B.M]

In what season did Alan Richardson have a top 4 (even a top 8) list?

I think pretty much every year (except 1) we finished pretty much as expected.

The fact we won 11 and 12 in 2016 and 2017 beggars belief

Chris Pelchen (the architect behind our decade of failure) gutted the list. We bottomed out when expansion teams were responsible for compromised drafts.
We took the wrong DPs (decided by Elshaug) in 2014 and traded in higher picks for split lower picks. Took a Roughie in VFL forward Ben Long over the highly rated obvious choice in Shai Bolton - he was even tipped to go to StK in Mock drafts

FFS
Saintsational biggest ever whipping boy was (along with Jack Steven) clearly the best player!!!
Perhaps with a 34 you one legged Rooey

Dylan Roberton showed a bit then had heart failure
Dempster was a gun - retired with concussion

[The G Train Legacy]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

Ratten's defensive systems were s*** and he didn't know where our List was at. So it had a bit to do with his coaching. In hindsight Richo was a better Coach.

You were going quite well up until you said “ Richo was a better Coach.”

We were far better defensively under Richo and Richo never had all the players we recruited in Ratten's 1st year, including Paddy Ryder. Richo would have done no worse than Ratten or perhaps better with the List Ratten had in comparison to Richo.

Ratten was better than Watters, I'll give him that.

[Devilhead]

Koby Stevens was showing something as well before concussion won the day

[B.M]

At the end of the day

It was the 2014 draft that killed us

I distinctly remember AR telling Elshaug we HAD to get the pick 1 right. He had concerns over Paddy’s weight and not overly dominating in is 18s year. Elshaugh was adamant he was our man.
Hugh Goddard was a steal at pick 21 - did do an Achilles but reality was that he was slower than treacle. And Stanley is still fkn playing!!!!!
McKenzie constantly injured
Lonie was inconsistent and lacked efficiency


Imagine if we drafted Petracca at 1, Touk Miller at 21, Toby Mclean or Neal Bullen at 22 and Bailey Dale or Caleb Daniel at 41

Bulldogs nailed it - premiership in 2016

We made a meal of it - decade of s***!!!!

[Brunswicksainter]

Silver lining. We should get a soft draw again next year

Maybe. I think hawthorn will be a powerhouse next year and the remaining decade after that. Will probably cop them twice at this rate. North and west coast should also improve.

[Teflon]

A BF perspective

Everybody is blaming Ross tell me who else is out there that is a good coach that we could get. Look at nth melb they got the meisiah clarkson look where they are. Nathan Burke said it on radio last night ross inherited a s**t team thanks to previous coaches etc he has a plan

That's not all Nathan Burke said.

Did he not say this?

[Teflon]

The 'reasoning' for the list going backwards this year was partially explained.

Last year was "have our best crack with what we've got, see what our ceiling is".

This is year is "play the way we want to win our next premiership, even if we don't have the skill level for it. Prioritise development"

I think the unfortunate side effect is the confidence and morale drop, and it doesn't seem to be a Lyon specialty to address that. He certainly doesn't inspire me when I listen to him.

He certainly has the runs on the board in inspiring 2 clubs into GFs ….something works
It might not work for you but I don’t envisage you running out GF day…
That’s all that matters

[Teflon]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in

You are changing Joey's message

His message was about connection forward of centre. He showed several examples where players weren't sharing the footy with someone in a better position

I understand that you want to defend your hero, but how about you listen to Leigh again before you misrepresent the truth

Joey also said that 'sharing' the footy needs to be the messaging at training.

As far as your 40 or so posts declaring our list as the being the problem... again it's all about making excuses for rtb and blaming losses solely on players.

Funny really. Last week on Thursday you were declaring us over the line against Freo... and last year... you thought our list was close to contending

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2006475

Hilarious for you to call someone out for posting a lot in defense of Lyon given the absolute tear you've been on the past few days here haha

And to be honest, you're misrepresenting Joey, not Teflon. Here is a direct quote:

"And what they struggle to do, Kingy, and I think it is a bit of personnel, they don't have players who can take the game from inside to outside and run and handball and draw [opponents] and give better looks."

He also said we've "tried everything" in terms of running different midfield groups to try to fix the problem -- a nod to the coach trying to find solutions.

And as for the comment on messaging at training, it was in direct response to Kingy asking if this was an issue that can "only" be fixed at the draft and through trades. And Joey noted that it can be improved at training but ended with saying you can only do that if you have the "confidence and ability" to do it.

Thanks mate
Amazed this clueless git can’t even listen to what was said and get it right …
Ross hatred doth blindeth some …

[Teflon]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

Ratten's defensive systems were s*** and he didn't know where our List was at. So it had a bit to do with his coaching. In hindsight Richo was a better Coach.

Agreed
Ratten had zero defensive game plan
Did it at Carlton too
Shoot out footy looks nice …until someone brings a bigger gun..
Then you’re stuffed
Brett didn’t get that

[Teflon]

Farken hell. Sack Lyon and replace him with who?
That's been St Kilda's story for the last 100 years and it's yet to work. In the eyes of Einstein this is the definition of insanity!

Bang on!!
Frankly, and I say this all sincerity, I don’t care if Atilla The Hun coaches us…I just want a flag ffs
I don’t see a better credentialed operator out there and not even 1.5yrs into his tenure (after he took us to finals last year) out come the half wits with pitch forks???
The mind boggles…

[bobmurray]

At the end of the day

It was the 2014 draft that killed us

I distinctly remember AR telling Elshaug we HAD to get the pick 1 right. He had concerns over Paddy’s weight and not overly dominating in is 18s year. Elshaugh was adamant he was our man.
Hugh Goddard was a steal at pick 21 - did do an Achilles but reality was that he was slower than treacle. And Stanley is still fkn playing!!!!!
McKenzie constantly injured
Lonie was inconsistent and lacked efficiency

The McCartin draft story is in this article by Emma Quayle.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ins ... j2ybw.html

[Teflon]

Silver lining. We should get a soft draw again next year

Maybe. I think hawthorn will be a powerhouse next year and the remaining decade after that. Will probably cop them twice at this rate. North and west coast should also improve.

To be honest last thing we need is a soft draw
It’s fools gold!! Makes us think we are better than we are
I’d take a tougher draw, some top 5 picks and when we rise we do so with talent base that’s sustained success
I don’t want 1 flag then disappear…I’d like to be up for a bit
Do the hard yards now
For those on here who remember….i said exactly this 3 years ago on here in “torn” thread
Richo, Brett led us on a merry dance…we were NEVER competing too 4 with this lot
Lyon knows it
Why do you think he’s pumping the kids in?? He has to

[shrodes]

At the end of the day

It was the 2014 draft that killed us

I distinctly remember AR telling Elshaug we HAD to get the pick 1 right. He had concerns over Paddy’s weight and not overly dominating in is 18s year. Elshaugh was adamant he was our man.
Hugh Goddard was a steal at pick 21 - did do an Achilles but reality was that he was slower than treacle. And Stanley is still fkn playing!!!!!
McKenzie constantly injured
Lonie was inconsistent and lacked efficiency

The McCartin draft story is in this article by Emma Quayle.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ins ... j2ybw.html

"But if you don't have a quality key forward it won't be 2018 when we're planning to play finals, it will be 2025. You've got to have at least one."

[bobmurray]

At the end of the day

It was the 2014 draft that killed us

I distinctly remember AR telling Elshaug we HAD to get the pick 1 right. He had concerns over Paddy’s weight and not overly dominating in is 18s year. Elshaugh was adamant he was our man.
Hugh Goddard was a steal at pick 21 - did do an Achilles but reality was that he was slower than treacle. And Stanley is still fkn playing!!!!!
McKenzie constantly injured
Lonie was inconsistent and lacked efficiency

The McCartin draft story is in this article by Emma Quayle.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ins ... j2ybw.html

"But if you don't have a quality key forward it won't be 2018 when we're planning to play finals, it will be 2025. You've got to have at least one."

We have a Key Forward of sorts, but it still won't be 2025.

Might be 2030 if Tassie hasn't pilfered the talent pool.

[Scollop]

At the end of the day

It was the 2014 draft that killed us

I distinctly remember AR telling Elshaug we HAD to get the pick 1 right. He had concerns over Paddy’s weight and not overly dominating in is 18s year. Elshaugh was adamant he was our man.
Hugh Goddard was a steal at pick 21 - did do an Achilles but reality was that he was slower than treacle. And Stanley is still fkn playing!!!!!
McKenzie constantly injured
Lonie was inconsistent and lacked efficiency

The McCartin draft story is in this article by Emma Quayle.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ins ... j2ybw.html

"But if you don't have a quality key forward it won't be 2018 when we're planning to play finals, it will be 2025. You've got to have at least one."

They were clearly concerned with the fact McCartin had struggled to maintain his fitness/skinfolds.

McCartin couldn't present at the combine. I can't recall why, but it was a smart move by his manager if they did it deliberately. McCartin would have been embarrassed by results from fitness testing.

Elshaugh was trying to predict that fitness wouldn't be an issue due to his diabetes when evidence suggested the contrary. At least in McCartin's personal situation in the year he was drafted.

The imbecile Elshaugh was trying to predict where McCartin would get to and what sort of player he might become, instead of dealing in the present and picking the very best 18 year old based on what they were already producing at that particular time.

Speculative pick and Mr Elshaugh was also somehow a visionary because of Tom Boyd and jonathan patton

[Scollop]

Thanks mate
Amazed this clueless git can’t even listen to what was said and get it right …
Ross hatred doth blindeth some …

We'll see who the clueless git is soon enough. You have been bullish on Lyon ever since he first coached us...I get that. You're not alone. The problem I have and many others like me, is we think the game has evolved...and Ross hasn't.

Perhaps his method of coaching and his style of coaching also belongs in the past. Perhaps he can't teach and motivate and develop a list.

You were actually quite bullish on our list in May 2023. See link below

What happened? Why the sudden turnaround? Wouldn't have anything to do with getting it wrong on the messiah would it?

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2006475

I never said we’d win in 2024
I did say 2-3 we will seriously challenge
From there…but of luck..you never know
Are you the same fair weather fan that told us the list was shyte ?

[SaintPav]

[Scollop]

All Teffers wants to do is pot the players

He was bullish on the list in 2023, but now they're all duds bar a handful of players

Our form and game style is all Robert Harvey's doing ...and the talentless players

The lack of development and lack of confidence has nothing to do with the head coach apparently

[Vortex]

THE

SUM

OF

ALL


PARTS