Sack Lyon

[magnifisaint]

We're been rebuilding since 2010 and before that 97. Lindsay Fox had a 5 yr plan in the 80s. Is that still ongoing?

[Burkeywasthebest]

St. Kilda's problems have been evident to all of us who have sat through and forced ourselves to watch them them since the Richardson days. The same problems have not been addressed and continue to haunt us:

- One paced midfield
- Can't kick inside fifty/to our forwards as evidenced by 4 out of bounds on the full kicks to King when he was one out against Freo
- Can't hit 30 metre targets
- Insist an game-clogging 1 metre handballs - ovals are wide - use them. Create space and run.
- Forwards need to play in front
- No mongrel, don't hold tackles

Most of these issues can be coached/trained by people who are being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I don't care about any self-loving personas - if you're "cuddly" or "angry" or anything else. Teach them how to kick and play.

[B.M]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

[B.M]

Nathan Burke

Not really an expert on coaching

After taking the girls at the dogs from the finals to the wooden spoon and got sacked

[Teflon]

We're been rebuilding since 2010 and before that 97. Lindsay Fox had a 5 yr plan in the 80s. Is that still ongoing?

And still got it wrong

[samuraisaint]

So Teffers

Are you saying he inherited a bad list

Ipso facto

Ratten had a poor list

Meaning it wasn’t his coaching - it was the list then too… right?!

Brett Ratten was a ripping coach. What he did with us in 2020 was fantastic and one of my all time favourite seasons. He proved how good he was again by what he did with North last year. They could have won 5 games they just lost. Ratts was a much better coach at North than he was ever given credit for.

[saynta]

You can't win premierships, or games even, if you can't score and Lyons teams don't score.

Nathan Burke is not a coach's arsehole. Prove that tying to coach the girls at the Saints and then the doggies.

[Scollop]

It's a rarity for me to be on the same page as my old mate Vortex, but I couldn't agree more with his succinct comments!

To be fair, my views on the coach versus talent debate hasn't changed one little bit since before Richo departed, and then before Ratts departed and then I kept expressing the same view when Ross was parachuted in. And that view was this.."what magic trick does Ross Lyon have that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game that can turn every recruit into a GF type?", also expressed as turning water into wine. And then find around 25 GF types which is regarded by most premiership coahes as the depth of talent you need to challenge.

This seemed to be the difference in page as you put it and I experienced a lot of nastiness over that view when Ross arrived but I haven't waivered because it's based on history and facts.

And even though I would declare clearly I'm a Ross fan, it was still somehow seen as me being a Ross "Hater" which couldn't be further from the truth.

I have also repeatedly said that it's the sum of all parts and that the procuring of said 25 GF types was the hardest job of all, much much harder than bringing one person into a club like a great head coach such as Ross, because that's actually really easy to do.

But I have also repeatedly said it's even more incredibly hard to build a list that can compete at a poor club like ours and therein lays tbe crux of the challenge. This is pure guess work, but I wouldn't might betting one of Ross's only conditions on Bassett when they struck a deal was, you have to stick fat and long because it will get much harder before things turn.

I mean come on, with the benefit of hindsight which list did Richo or Ratts have that was capable of challenging? and that's not taking into consideration both of those coaches also experienced terrible luck with injuries preventing them from having full access to their first picked players. We haven't had a list that can compete since 2009/2010 yet it still surprises me fans fall into the trap of blaming a coach. It's madness.

But I think where most of the angst is coming from is amongst the supporters who actually thought Ross could turn water into wine.

No, a good % of it is coming from supporters who didn't think lyon was up to the job in the first place.

So you thought we had the list to compete for a premiership before Ross took over? Or weren't for off it?

We didn't make finals in 2021...or in 2022....so who in their right mind would believe we had the list to compete for a premiership?

Apart from sone nuff nuffs and possibly TedtheodoreLogan2018

Every one with half a brain knew we needed to hit the draft. It happened before Lyon arrived with the selection of Nasiah with our pick 7 in 2021 and our retention of our early pick at the end of 2022.

We'd only competed in one finals series in 10 years, however in 2020 we had a bunch of experience including Ryder, Geary, Carlisle and Hannebery.

Lyon arrived AFTER the draft strategy had already been decided. Ratten didn't see the fruits of the drafting because it had only just begun

Whether Ratts was the right person for the rebuild, we'll never know because he wasn't given the opportunity

The decision to employ a coach who had already given it his best shot was explained by some on here as being the correct decision because Ratten had a large belly (ok they also thought Ratts was soft, Ratts didn't train them hard enough etc.)

What I felt. What I suspected was that Ross was yesterday's man. What I was afraid of was that we'd be playing a boring, low scoring style of game

Sadly, for supporters and the general public watching our games, that's what's happening

[Rubyjo]

Gringo is thay you.

[Scollop]

No dude

[Teflon]

People who can’t see why the club move both Richo and Ratten on are clueless
6 years Richo
3 more shyte years of Brett
Both telling the Board we were top 4 - horse shyte
That’s coaches saving their arse
Both involved in decisions to top up with Jones, Howard’s, Hannerbury etc at the expense of drafting mids
Now we pay the price
Last year Lyons coaching and a soft draw saw us over achieving- we all saw the reality of what GWS did in that final. I never felt we were “on the cusp”
FFS we have a D grade midfield
Lyons playing kids
He knows we are years off
Bout time - rather that than BS sugar hits

[Teflon]

BF for the dumb ones on here sacking the coach in yr2

*****

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

[samuraisaint]

BF for the dumb ones on here sacking the coach in yr2

*****

As has been mentioned before, I do see Ross being the Paul Roos at Melbourne-type figure to fix this club and put it on the right track. Is he the bloke who wins us a flag? Unlikely, in my opinion. However, whoever takes over will have the best opportunity to compete over the long term.

Read the Herald Sun article from Mark Robinson this week and even watch the presser from last night. Ross and the rest of the major decision makers at the club know exactly where we are and know what needs to be done to make us a good team. The past decade has seen us believe we aren’t far off a flag, but we aren’t close at the moment. Just look at the depth running around in clubs in flag contention, it’s night and day compared to us. We will hit the draft hard and we will explore free agency to fix our biggest problem - our midfield. Will it take five years? Will it take 18 months? Who knows, but the club knows it won’t happen this season. It hurts for us as fans to acknowledge that, but we need to persist.

Ain't that the sad truth. Tassie coming in in two years. It's time to take our medicine and bring in the young talent. You're right Teflon.

[Devilhead]

I reckon we should sack half our supporter base

You can tell who are the ones that never experienced the 80s

[Teflon]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in
Showed the vision where we win ball and are quick to just get it on the boot - so in 1st half we had plenty of looks…problem is that they were all dumped, bombs on the heads of a young forward line…
Also really damming footage of runners like Hill - happy to run, play outside when we win ball…but failing to run defensive (Omeara his man ran off him multiple times)

[freely]

A BF perspective

Everybody is blaming Ross tell me who else is out there that is a good coach that we could get. Look at nth melb they got the meisiah clarkson look where they are. Nathan Burke said it on radio last night ross inherited a s**t team thanks to previous coaches etc he has a plan

That's not all Nathan Burke said.

[Devilhead]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in
Showed the vision where we win ball and are quick to just get it on the boot - so in 1st half we had plenty of looks…problem is that they were all dumped, bombs on the heads of a young forward line…
Also really damming footage of runners like Hill - happy to run, play outside when we win ball…but failing to run defensive (Omeara his man ran off him multiple times)

Hence why bringing in Crouch and Clark who can win it inside which in turn releases Steele & Windhager will help us immensely

If Crouch and Clark can make an impact on the inside watch our confidence grow

Dow with more gametime will help as well

[nostalgicsaint]

Silver lining. We should get a soft draw again next year

[Crossy66]

Really interesting take from Joey on First Crack
Reckons ball transition isn’t our main issue
Suggests the issue is we lack players with the ability in congestion, contested situations to take the ball from inside to outside aka why we rushed Dow in
Showed the vision where we win ball and are quick to just get it on the boot - so in 1st half we had plenty of looks…problem is that they were all dumped, bombs on the heads of a young forward line…
Also really damming footage of runners like Hill - happy to run, play outside when we win ball…but failing to run defensive (Omeara his man ran off him multiple times)

Hence why bringing in Crouch and Clark who can win it inside which in turn releases Steele & Windhager will help us immensely

If Crouch and Clark can make an impact on the inside watch our confidence grow

Dow with more gametime will help as well

This is spot on. Even against freo, Dow won the ball in close a number of times and gave it off inside , which was fumbled. Clean hands in close will make a massive difference. It's like our opposition can cheat and run forward because they know who will win the ball in the contest.
I'd throw the kitchen sink at the LDU types

[Otiman]

The 'reasoning' for the list going backwards this year was partially explained.

Last year was "have our best crack with what we've got, see what our ceiling is".

This is year is "play the way we want to win our next premiership, even if we don't have the skill level for it. Prioritise development"

I think the unfortunate side effect is the confidence and morale drop, and it doesn't seem to be a Lyon specialty to address that. He certainly doesn't inspire me when I listen to him.

[spert]

People who can’t see why the club move both Richo and Ratten on are clueless
6 years Richo
3 more shyte years of Brett
Both telling the Board we were top 4 - horse shyte
That’s coaches saving their arse
Both involved in decisions to top up with Jones, Howard’s, Hannerbury etc at the expense of drafting mids
Now we pay the price
Last year Lyons coaching and a soft draw saw us over achieving- we all saw the reality of what GWS did in that final. I never felt we were “on the cusp”
FFS we have a D grade midfield
Lyons playing kids
He knows we are years off
Bout time - rather that than BS sugar hits

Just prepare for another year or two if you're lucky of sh*te from Lyon before he jumps ship

[The Fireman]

A BF perspective

Everybody is blaming Ross tell me who else is out there that is a good coach that we could get. Look at nth melb they got the meisiah clarkson look where they are. Nathan Burke said it on radio last night ross inherited a s**t team thanks to previous coaches etc he has a plan

That's not all Nathan Burke said.

go on

[CURLY]

The 'reasoning' for the list going backwards this year was partially explained.

Last year was "have our best crack with what we've got, see what our ceiling is".

This is year is "play the way we want to win our next premiership, even if we don't have the skill level for it. Prioritise development"

I think the unfortunate side effect is the confidence and morale drop, and it doesn't seem to be a Lyon specialty to address that. He certainly doesn't inspire me when I listen to him.

Excellent post.

[SAINT-LEE]

We're been rebuilding since 2010 and before that 97. Lindsay Fox had a 5 yr plan in the 80s. Is that still ongoing?

Im pleased to announce the L FOX renewal plan is now entering its 11th phase known as RTB & Më

Plans to be Grand Finalists in 2026 & 27 are finalised and awaiting AFL & Victorian Commission for Gambling and Liquor Regulation approvals.

Please note: some compromises with the Victorian government were necessary including moving our entire operations to a yet confirmed location near Monbulk.

[Devilhead]

The 'reasoning' for the list going backwards this year was partially explained.

Last year was "have our best crack with what we've got, see what our ceiling is".

This is year is "play the way we want to win our next premiership, even if we don't have the skill level for it. Prioritise development"

I think the unfortunate side effect is the confidence and morale drop, and it doesn't seem to be a Lyon specialty to address that. He certainly doesn't inspire me when I listen to him.

You think passing the ball around slowly at the back with no run through the middle is "the way we want" or are "planning to use" to win our next Premiership??