Sack Lyon

[The_Dud]

The coach isn’t the one making the skill errors on field, but the coach is the one who can set the standards.

Our standards are rock bottom, no selection integrity, players can run around knowing they’re undroppable.

You keep banging on about selection integrity but you offer up no solutions.

We’ve been smashed with injury and suspension. He’s played four first year players and left out long term players along the way.

Seems to me you don’t know what you’re on about.

Sssshhh Curly, you just focus on drying your tears, the adults are talking now

[SAINT-LEE]

So...which is it?

Lyon was shithouse last year but the players were good enough

OR

Lyon was the reason last year


But....in 2024

Lyon is shitzen or its the players?

If its Lyon...PROVE how he has significantly altered the game plan from 23 to 24.

Whats actually accurate is the lay the blame across the club as it truly is...
Senior Coach
Asst Coaches
Players
Culture
History of Poor Trades & Drafts
Injuries

This blame on just the coach or players is rubbish

If you say...in this game Lyons strategy failed or in this game this player was poor...fair enough

[Jaz]

So...which is it?

Lyon was shithouse last year but the players were good enough

OR

Lyon was the reason last year


But....in 2024

Lyon is shitzen or its the players?

If its Lyon...PROVE how he has significantly altered the game plan from 23 to 24.

Whats actually accurate is the lay the blame across the club as it truly is...
Senior Coach
Asst Coaches
Players
Culture
History of Poor Trades & Drafts
Injuries

This blame on just the coach or players is rubbish

If you say...in this game Lyons strategy failed or in this game this player was poor...fair enough

Evidently it takes a year to train the creativity and natural instincts out of the team such they they second and third guess themselves so much they not longer concentrate on basic skill execution. Hence why Poo, Owens and others looked good last year, and Wilson this year. Leave him in charge and see what happens to Wilson's development next year. If Lyon's instructions to the players are anything like the waffle that comes from his press conferences then no wonder the players are confused.

Finally the coach is the head, they pick the staff, set the standards etc. Its clear there are issues all throughout the footy department so the coach has to take responsibility for that. From the outside it looks like Lyon has had removed those that didn't agree with him so any underperformance of the department has to rest squarely on his shoulders.

[CURLY]

The coach isn’t the one making the skill errors on field, but the coach is the one who can set the standards.

Our standards are rock bottom, no selection integrity, players can run around knowing they’re undroppable.

You keep banging on about selection integrity but you offer up no solutions.

We’ve been smashed with injury and suspension. He’s played four first year players and left out long term players along the way.

Seems to me you don’t know what you’re on about.

Sssshhh Curly, you just focus on drying your tears, the adults are talking now

You’re a goose answer the question you narcissist

[SaintPav]

I won’t be watching that uninspiring s*** until further notice.

[Otiman]

So...which is it?

Lyon was shithouse last year but the players were good enough

OR

Lyon was the reason last year

Great post.

The chat at the start of the year was 'How can this side possibly go backwards?':

Steele is fit
2nd, 3rd year players have another 22 games of experience
No players in the 29-32 range looking to drop off
Nasiah ready to step up to AA form (I had him as a Brownlow smokey)
Windhager the best preseason ever
Owens looking ready to enable beast mode
King off a full preseason
Wood off a full preseason and career best season last year
Philippou looking tanked and training solidly (although I was shut down for suggesting otherwise)
Wilkie and Sinclair AA
Recruits of Bonner, Henry, and Dow to compliment the team where we need it most.
Membrey a solid preseason providing strength and leadership up forward

What we saw was:

Webster out for 7 and Howard hamstring decimating our defensive structures
Wilkie lost his mojo with Howard out
Nasiah being targeted by opposition and unable to play as free
King a wet fish
Windhager injured hand
Henry missing most games
Owens played out of position
Bonner turnover king
Philippou nowhere to be seen
Membrey poor enough form to be dropped
Dow and Crouch played 1/2 a game each

The only positives so far have been:
Windhager showing what he can do.
Wilson stepping up straight away

It's indicative of a team that's lost, unmotivated, and not enjoying their footy, rather than a drop in individual performance and talent.

Based on last year this list was on the improve, and has just gone backwards.

Lyon and his coaches have a lot to do with it. Big shakeup next year. Wouldn't be surprised to see Ross as footy director and Enright head coach, with all new assistants.

[sks023]

So...which is it?

Lyon was shithouse last year but the players were good enough

OR

Lyon was the reason last year


But....in 2024

Lyon is shitzen or its the players?

If its Lyon...PROVE how he has significantly altered the game plan from 23 to 24.

Whats actually accurate is the lay the blame across the club as it truly is...
Senior Coach
Asst Coaches
Players
Culture
History of Poor Trades & Drafts
Injuries

This blame on just the coach or players is rubbish

If you say...in this game Lyons strategy failed or in this game this player was poor...fair enough

Maybe we had a bit of Rattens DNA left in us

[Yorkeys]

It was a 5 year deal.
Let the man go the journey.
Honour the undertaking.
Don't go the bed wetting route.
As the man observed "...s*** happens.." then it doesn't.
All good things usually involve hard work and perseverance.

[nostalgicsaint]

I don't think anyone is thrilled with where we're at this season.

That said the overreaction is extreme.

Reality is we're a middle or the road, young side in a competition where if you're off your game by 10% any side can beat any other.

Some early season bad luck has led to a lack of confidence.

Watching the twos, I think it's been underestimated what an impact an out of form/injured Crouch and Clark has had on our year. Our midfield isn't strong to begin with and last year these two + Gresham were contributors at clearances.

Being weak in the midfield has had our half forwards come up to the stoppage to support more so than last year- this has a knock on effect of making it harder for our forwards, particularly our younger bodies which can make us look poor and resort to long bombs deep or wide.

This year isn't what RL was brought in to win. Finals next year, top 4 from 26-29 is the goal.

There will be enough heat coming our clubs way externally which can lead to poor decision making, it'd be great if our own fans didn't pile on.

[SAINT-LEE]

So...which is it?

Lyon was shithouse last year but the players were good enough

OR

Lyon was the reason last year


But....in 2024

Lyon is shitzen or its the players?

If its Lyon...PROVE how he has significantly altered the game plan from 23 to 24.

Whats actually accurate is the lay the blame across the club as it truly is...
Senior Coach
Asst Coaches
Players
Culture
History of Poor Trades & Drafts
Injuries

This blame on just the coach or players is rubbish

If you say...in this game Lyons strategy failed or in this game this player was poor...fair enough

Maybe we had a bit of Rattens DNA left in us

So it WAS the coach and the players are sh1te

[saintkev]

Jack Steele might be carrying a niggle. Didn't he have a crook knee a few weeks ago?

I really don't know what's going on because I'm not on the inside, but he looks dispirited at times.

Craig McCrae played Jordan De Goey exclusively in the forward line as he's coming back from a sore groin.

Why doesn't Ross try Steele as a permanent high half forward. Try a different mix in the middle. Do something instead of constantly being negative towards the midfield group

Lyon lacks creative ability.

[The_Dud]

The coach isn’t the one making the skill errors on field, but the coach is the one who can set the standards.

Our standards are rock bottom, no selection integrity, players can run around knowing they’re undroppable.

You keep banging on about selection integrity but you offer up no solutions.

We’ve been smashed with injury and suspension. He’s played four first year players and left out long term players along the way.

Seems to me you don’t know what you’re on about.

Sssshhh Curly, you just focus on drying your tears, the adults are talking now

You’re a goose answer the question you narcissist

I have, multiple times, you just can’t comprehend.

Who do you replace them with? Literally anybody.

[CURLY]

The coach isn’t the one making the skill errors on field, but the coach is the one who can set the standards.

Our standards are rock bottom, no selection integrity, players can run around knowing they’re undroppable.

You keep banging on about selection integrity but you offer up no solutions.

We’ve been smashed with injury and suspension. He’s played four first year players and left out long term players along the way.

Seems to me you don’t know what you’re on about.

Sssshhh Curly, you just focus on drying your tears, the adults are talking now

You’re a goose answer the question you narcissist

I have, multiple times, you just can’t comprehend.

Who do you replace them with? Literally anybody.

Yeah just more proof you have no idea

[Teflon]

The same 1 dimensional twits on the sack the coach bandwagon don’t get it
We made finals last year cause we were well coached BUT had a soft draw where sides around us - Freo?? (Looked shyte last year) Bombers anyone??
Lyon knows the skill level in this lot is sub par
I’m yet to hear anyone articulate how he’s changed the game plan …lots of game plan experts tho

[The Fireman]

In RTB I trust

[Vortex]

It's a rarity for me to be on the same page as my old mate Vortex, but I couldn't agree more with his succinct comments!

To be fair, my views on the coach versus talent debate hasn't changed one little bit since before Richo departed, and then before Ratts departed and then I kept expressing the same view when Ross was parachuted in. And that view was this.."what magic trick does Ross Lyon have that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game that can turn every recruit into a GF type?", also expressed as turning water into wine. And then find around 25 GF types which is regarded by most premiership coahes as the depth of talent you need to challenge.

This seemed to be the difference in page as you put it and I experienced a lot of nastiness over that view when Ross arrived but I haven't waivered because it's based on history and facts.

And even though I would declare clearly I'm a Ross fan, it was still somehow seen as me being a Ross "Hater" which couldn't be further from the truth.

I have also repeatedly said that it's the sum of all parts and that the procuring of said 25 GF types was the hardest job of all, much much harder than bringing one person into a club like a great head coach such as Ross, because that's actually really easy to do.

But I have also repeatedly said it's even more incredibly hard to build a list that can compete at a poor club like ours and therein lays the crux of the challenge. This is pure guess work, but I wouldn't mind betting one of Ross's only conditions on Bassett when they struck a deal was, you have to stick fat and long because it will get much harder before things turn. He's no mug, but it's not rocket science either. However your average footy fan will never understand this because they get brainwashed with marketing spin designed to sell hope and excitement and to lure money from fans pockets into club bank accounts.

I mean come on, with the benefit of hindsight, which list did Richo or Ratts ever have that was capable of seriously challenging? and that's not taking into consideration both of those coaches also experienced terrible luck with injuries preventing them from having full access to their first picked players. We haven't had a list that can compete since 2009/2010 yet it still surprises me fans fall into the trap of blaming a coach for lack of said talent. It's pure ignorance.

And so I suspect where most of the angst is coming from presently is amongst the supporters who actually thought Ross could turn water into wine and are being drawn into the tractor beam again and will hear the word "sack" and lock on like a junkyard dog in a butcher shop,

[saynta]

It's a rarity for me to be on the same page as my old mate Vortex, but I couldn't agree more with his succinct comments!

To be fair, my views on the coach versus talent debate hasn't changed one little bit since before Richo departed, and then before Ratts departed and then I kept expressing the same view when Ross was parachuted in. And that view was this.."what magic trick does Ross Lyon have that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game that can turn every recruit into a GF type?", also expressed as turning water into wine. And then find around 25 GF types which is regarded by most premiership coahes as the depth of talent you need to challenge.

This seemed to be the difference in page as you put it and I experienced a lot of nastiness over that view when Ross arrived but I haven't waivered because it's based on history and facts.

And even though I would declare clearly I'm a Ross fan, it was still somehow seen as me being a Ross "Hater" which couldn't be further from the truth.

I have also repeatedly said that it's the sum of all parts and that the procuring of said 25 GF types was the hardest job of all, much much harder than bringing one person into a club like a great head coach such as Ross, because that's actually really easy to do.

But I have also repeatedly said it's even more incredibly hard to build a list that can compete at a poor club like ours and therein lays tbe crux of the challenge. This is pure guess work, but I wouldn't might betting one of Ross's only conditions on Bassett when they struck a deal was, you have to stick fat and long because it will get much harder before things turn.

I mean come on, with the benefit of hindsight which list did Richo or Ratts have that was capable of challenging? and that's not taking into consideration both of those coaches also experienced terrible luck with injuries preventing them from having full access to their first picked players. We haven't had a list that can compete since 2009/2010 yet it still surprises me fans fall into the trap of blaming a coach. It's madness.

But I think where most of the angst is coming from is amongst the supporters who actually thought Ross could turn water into wine.

No, a good % of it is coming from supporters who didn't think lyon was up to the job in the first place.

[B.M]

Wasn’t it a 4 year deal for Ross

[Vortex]

It's a rarity for me to be on the same page as my old mate Vortex, but I couldn't agree more with his succinct comments!

To be fair, my views on the coach versus talent debate hasn't changed one little bit since before Richo departed, and then before Ratts departed and then I kept expressing the same view when Ross was parachuted in. And that view was this.."what magic trick does Ross Lyon have that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game that can turn every recruit into a GF type?", also expressed as turning water into wine. And then find around 25 GF types which is regarded by most premiership coahes as the depth of talent you need to challenge.

This seemed to be the difference in page as you put it and I experienced a lot of nastiness over that view when Ross arrived but I haven't waivered because it's based on history and facts.

And even though I would declare clearly I'm a Ross fan, it was still somehow seen as me being a Ross "Hater" which couldn't be further from the truth.

I have also repeatedly said that it's the sum of all parts and that the procuring of said 25 GF types was the hardest job of all, much much harder than bringing one person into a club like a great head coach such as Ross, because that's actually really easy to do.

But I have also repeatedly said it's even more incredibly hard to build a list that can compete at a poor club like ours and therein lays tbe crux of the challenge. This is pure guess work, but I wouldn't might betting one of Ross's only conditions on Bassett when they struck a deal was, you have to stick fat and long because it will get much harder before things turn.

I mean come on, with the benefit of hindsight which list did Richo or Ratts have that was capable of challenging? and that's not taking into consideration both of those coaches also experienced terrible luck with injuries preventing them from having full access to their first picked players. We haven't had a list that can compete since 2009/2010 yet it still surprises me fans fall into the trap of blaming a coach. It's madness.

But I think where most of the angst is coming from is amongst the supporters who actually thought Ross could turn water into wine.

No, a good % of it is coming from supporters who didn't think lyon was up to the job in the first place.

So you thought we had the list to compete for a premiership before Ross took over? Or weren't for off it?

[Vortex]

Wasn’t it a 4 year deal for Ross

Why are you asking a question you know the answer to?

[B.M]

In case I’m wrong

I’m not 100% on it

[Yorkeys]

In case I’m wrong

I’m not 100% on it

I miscounted the year of exploration. Apologies.

[Vortex]

In case I’m wrong

I’m not 100% on it

4 years but I think he'll need longer to build a list capable of challenging, we can't take short cuts this time.

[Teflon]

A BF perspective

Everybody is blaming Ross tell me who else is out there that is a good coach that we could get. Look at nth melb they got the meisiah clarkson look where they are. Nathan Burke said it on radio last night ross inherited a s**t team thanks to previous coaches etc he has a plan

[saynta]

It's not only the supporters heaping s*** on cuddles.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/veter ... 1e35eccbf1


St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has come under heavy fire with a veteran journalist highlight the flaw that spells disaster for his side.
James McKern
James McKern
@jLmcKern
3 min read
May 19, 2024 - 12:15PM

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"Good coaches don't tell, they teach!": Questions asked of Saints and Ross Lyon
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AFL: The Super Saturday panel discuss the dip in form at St Kilda and question if Ross Lyon is the best man to get the most of the playing roster.


St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has come under heavy fire with a veteran journalist highlighting the flaw that spells disaster for his side.

The Saints fell to Fremantle at Marvel Stadium on Saturday to make it five losses over their past six matches.

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While they got the edge over Collingwood in round two, their only other wins have come against Richmond and North Melbourne … the two teams placed last on the ladder.

With only three wins to their name, the Saints have fallen to 14th on the ladder after finishing the 2023 season in sixth with a 13-10 record.

The 17-point loss against the Dockers flattered the Saints as they were completely outplayed in front of their home fans with criticism coming in thick and fast for Lyon following the defeat.

Veteran journalist Rohan Connolly didn’t hold back any punches as he called out Lyon and his coaching style that spells disaster for the Saints.

“This needs to be said, I’ve got nothing against Ross but you simply can’t win a flag without being able to score and his teams consistantly don’t,” Connolly wrote on X.

“He’s had 13 completed seasons as a coach, in that time just once have his teams ranked any higher than seventh for points scored while nine times his teams have been ranked top six for fewest points conceded.”
Lyon’s coaching style isn’t getting it done. (Photo by Steve Bell/Getty Images)
Lyon’s coaching style isn’t getting it done. (Photo by Steve Bell/Getty Images)

Connolly pointed out that of the past 24 Grand Final winners, only twice has a team ranked lower than sixth for points scored reigned supreme.

“You have to be able to score at least respectively to be in the ball game and Lyon’s sides still don’t,” he wrote.

“Last year St Kilda (number 1 for fewest points against) was a dismal 15th for points scored. Even this season they’re ok defensively (sixth) but points scored? A lowly 14th.

“You can’t return this sort of discrepancy between attack and defence over that long a period and be believed when you say you really value attacking football and scoring.

“He doesn’t. And the numbers simply don’t stack up. He has to change.”

Hawthorn great Ben Dixon took aim at Lyon following the round 10 loss and questioned the coach’s ability to implement his message to the team.

“They’re not getting ambushed, but good coaches don’t tell, they teach - and that’s where I’m finding it hard for the players that they’ve got,” Dixon said.
The Saints are in serious strife in 2024. (Photo by Mark Metcalfe/AFL Photos/Getty Images)
The Saints are in serious strife in 2024. (Photo by Mark Metcalfe/AFL Photos/Getty Images)

“He can coach, but if you can’t teach the players to do it on the field themselves … they would be the questions I’m asking, do the players actually understand what they’re executing on the field?”

“It’s a bit of a talent issue as well, and he knows that - he just identified that in his press conference,” Western Bulldogs great Brad Johnson added.

Johnson also added that the style of play adopted by the Saints most of 2024 simply isn’t sustainable to win most games.
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“Saints fans need to ask some questions around some scoring … you can’t be going on in this competition scoring 60 points per game” Johnson said.

The Saints will take on Melbourne next week and could fall to 3-8 on a season they entered full of hope following a finals run last year.

Lyon coached St Kilda to Grand Final defeats in 2009 and 2010, came up short in 2013 at Fremantle and returned to the Saints when Brett Ratten was sacked at the end of the 2022 season.