Are we going full tilt in 2024????

[CURLY]

Selection suggests we aren't.

Clearly setting up for a year or two.

[Apples]

Well, now the season appears to be a bust, we should tactically get as much time into the kids as possible,if the by product of this is a lower first round draft pick then great, we only have 2 or 3 'uncomprimised drafts' before the Tassie concessions hit, sides who have list deficiencies in a couple of years time will be in a world of pain.

[Otiman]

I felt like we are going into every game to be competitive but eventually lose.

No end game tactics
No 'blitz' tactics
Not playing to the scoreboard (Runner messages is a cop out)

[sks023]

Selection suggests we aren't.

Clearly setting up for a year or two.
Selection has mostly been dictated by what has been available
If we had more senior players fit throughout the year they would be playing
Selection points to a lack of availability rather than we are playing the kids and rebuilding
Once Crouch, Higgins ,Clark and the likes are available and playing in the coming weeks I wonder what the narrative will be then

[CURLY]

Selection suggests we aren't.

Clearly setting up for a year or two.
Selection has mostly been dictated by what has been available
If we had more senior players fit throughout the year they would be playing
Selection points to a lack of availability rather than we are playing the kids and rebuilding
Once Crouch, Higgins ,Clark and the likes are available and playing in the coming weeks I wonder what the narrative will be then

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

[Vortex]

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

Agree Curly that Jones could be a better option but based on his AFL games this season, especially his game against Richmond it is clear something is not right with him. He looked disinterested and delivered really poor stats.

It’s only rumour but it was claimed he had some type of conflict with Ross. My big guess is Ross has already told him he is not included in the future hence why he looked like he was disinterested in his AFL appearances and well of the standard for a player of his age and experience.

Happens all the time.

[CURLY]

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

Agree Curly that Jones could be a better option but based on his AFL games this season, especially his game against Richmond it is clear something is not right with him. He looked disinterested and delivered really poor stats.

It’s only rumour but it was claimed he had some type of conflict with Ross. My big guess is Ross has already told him he is not included in the future hence why he looked like he was disinterested in his AFL appearances and well of the standard for a player of his age and experience.

Happens all the time.

Coaching for the now you'll play a bloke that hooked up with your wife.

[sks023]

I will wait and see what the team looks like in the coming weeks, and let that determine if we are playing for now or the future

[Vortex]

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

Agree Curly that Jones could be a better option but based on his AFL games this season, especially his game against Richmond it is clear something is not right with him. He looked disinterested and delivered really poor stats.

It’s only rumour but it was claimed he had some type of conflict with Ross. My big guess is Ross has already told him he is not included in the future hence why he looked like he was disinterested in his AFL appearances and well of the standard for a player of his age and experience.

Happens all the time.

Coaching for the now you'll play a bloke that hooked up with your wife.

I’m confused Curly, what does that mean?

[CURLY]

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

Agree Curly that Jones could be a better option but based on his AFL games this season, especially his game against Richmond it is clear something is not right with him. He looked disinterested and delivered really poor stats.

It’s only rumour but it was claimed he had some type of conflict with Ross. My big guess is Ross has already told him he is not included in the future hence why he looked like he was disinterested in his AFL appearances and well of the standard for a player of his age and experience.

Happens all the time.

Coaching for the now you'll play a bloke that hooked up with your wife.

I’m confused Curly, what does that mean?

Youre not going to leave a bloke out of the side if you don't like them.

[bigcarl]

I think we’ve got to back Ross in as coach for the long haul … and it may be a LONG haul.

It’s now a developmental year, so we should play kids … but only if they deserve a game.

The agenda has to be to address our weaknesses. In particular, our plodding midfield and inability to take the game on and score.

I can’t for the life of me work out why Owens hasn’t been given an extended crack in the clearance midfield. He seems to have all the tools. Ultra competitive, powerful and explosive. Seems like a no brainer to play him there to me, but perhaps there are doubts over his tank.

Jones, Dow and Clark must be in the mix this week you would think. And boy have we missed Crouch, much more than you would have thought on his initial injury.

As for the forward line, I think Max needs to play higher up the ground - the old chf - and get some other natural goal kickers in deep. Caminiti I think can make it as a key forward. We obviously miss Higgins and Butler and need to find smalls who can kick goals.

I hear Collard has a perceived attitude problem and cost Sandringham the game on Sunday. But I’d be tempted to play him anyway.

We need to move the ball much quicker and with far more confidence. I have to hand it to Hawthorn for the way they shut down our run last week. Every St Kilda possession was under extreme pressure and we were lucky to finish as close as we did

[cwrcyn]

I'd be tempted that play Collard, too. He's getting low possessions but it's mostly because of the atrocious ball movement and garbage skills and decision making by players up the field. He has more speed and skill than everyone else out there at Sandy.

It's perplexing that Owens hasn't been developed as a midfielder. Unfortunately, his form this year has been poor. He's fumbling all the time.

We have some holes on the list but it's not a disaster. We have the pieces in place except for the midfield. I'm not fussed if we finish bottom four. Right now it wouldn't serve us in the long term to finish 8th to 10th, which is probably the highest we could finish if everything went right from hereon.

There's a lot of anger and frustration around here, and I get it. But really, we all knew we had a substandard midfield at the start of the year, even with the addition of Dow, who is a B grader at best.

[meher baba]

I'd be tempted that play Collard, too. He's getting low possessions but it's mostly because of the atrocious ball movement and garbage skills and decision making by players up the field. He has more speed and skill than everyone else out there at Sandy.

It's perplexing that Owens hasn't been developed as a midfielder. Unfortunately, his form this year has been poor. He's fumbling all the time.

We have some holes on the list but it's not a disaster. We have the pieces in place except for the midfield. I'm not fussed if we finish bottom four. Right now it wouldn't serve us in the long term to finish 8th to 10th, which is probably the highest we could finish if everything went right from hereon.

There's a lot of anger and frustration around here, and I get it. But really, we all knew we had a substandard midfield at the start of the year, even with the addition of Dow, who is a B grader at best.

Playing Collard against the Dockers following his dreadful performance on Sunday would surely be a serious case of "rewarding mediocrity", which is something that posters are always railing against on here.

I agree that Owens deserves a spell in the VFL: more so than Philippou did, IMO.

Re our midfield: I reckon it's performing considerably better than our forward line ATM. I think BJ is doing quite a good job. Even without Crouch, the structure looks better than it did last year. Windhager has come on and Wilson and Garcia are contributing well when they are in the middle. Even Sinclair is going better there than he has in the past IMO.

I don't agree with finishing bottom four if that involves tanking. We are clearly a better team than that and, apart from the real risk of pissing off the AFL and copping some sort of punishment, it would be demoralising for the players and won't teach them good habits. If we can beat the Dockers and get a really good run going, we can still make the finals. Teams have done it before from our position on the table.

[Devilhead]

We need to move the ball much quicker and with far more confidence. I have to hand it to Hawthorn for the way they shut down our run last week. Every St Kilda possession was under extreme pressure and we were lucky to finish as close as we did

Did Hawthorn shut down our run or did we just refuse to run and support?

Reckon we got spooked by their midget quick forwardline and didn't push up hard enough .... by the time we decided to it was too late

[Vortex]

The point is Jones is far better at this stage to both Hastie and Garcia at this stage. I'm sure he is worth 5 points.

Agree Curly that Jones could be a better option but based on his AFL games this season, especially his game against Richmond it is clear something is not right with him. He looked disinterested and delivered really poor stats.

It’s only rumour but it was claimed he had some type of conflict with Ross. My big guess is Ross has already told him he is not included in the future hence why he looked like he was disinterested in his AFL appearances and well of the standard for a player of his age and experience.

Happens all the time.

Coaching for the now you'll play a bloke that hooked up with your wife.

I’m confused Curly, what does that mean?

Youre not going to leave a bloke out of the side if you don't like them.

If he hooked up with my wife I might, but only if I thought I wasn't a chance for the flag, but if I thought I was a chance for the flag I'd book them a motel room.

Which category is Ross in do you think?

[repta]

Saints need to learn how to develop young players.
Young players need both time and space to develop. The best develop through both VFL and AFL exposure. Learn, fail, learn adapt and learn again.
Players need to make mistakes and have room to fail and learn. Gifting 30+ games in a row and going backwards from half way to the point of not being able to find the ball can permanently damage confidence.

Saints have been poor at developing players. Something needs to change. Otherwise you end up being in an endless loop of. Rebuilds

[Scollop]

Saints need to learn how to develop young players.
Young players need both time and space to develop. The best develop through both VFL and AFL exposure. Learn, fail, learn adapt and learn again.
Players need to make mistakes and have room to fail and learn. Gifting 30+ games in a row and going backwards from half way to the point of not being able to find the ball can permanently damage confidence.

Saints have been poor at developing players. Something needs to change. Otherwise you end up being in an endless loop of. Rebuilds

It's not only gifting games. St Kilda over the last ten years had some sort of weird logic that you have to play them each week just because they're a a first round pick or a top ten draft pick...

no matter how poor their performance was or how many bad habits they were developing. It's as if we thought that miraculously their habits would change, regardless of ANY change to them being picked or not.

That's what happened with Billings and Gresham. Every week the same errors or selfish behaviour or poor decision making. Used to frustrate the hell out of me that Richo wouldn't drop them.

Namby pamby coaching!!

Are we that much shitscared that we'll lose them or something. If their heart isn't with the RW&B let them leave.

Look at how Ratts managed NWM, Owens and Windy. Had them in and out in their first year.

Same with Ross the boss and how he treated Windy last year.

Selection integrity and development go hand in hand

[Banger9798]

Seems like we are committed to a bottom 5 finish.
All the downplaying of expectations from Ross and the president etc at the start of the season, the selection of youth, our game plan all suggest a deliberate controlled tanking.
I hope it's worth it.

[sks023]

Going to stop reading this s***
You guys are .........

The supporter's are what's wrong with this club

[The_Dud]

Selection integrity has been an issue at St Kilda for a while now...

[Scollop]

Going to stop reading this s***
You guys are .........

The supporter's are what's wrong with this club

Ok. Sorry

If we stop the criticism of King he will turn into a combination of Nick and Jack Riewoldt

If we stop the criticism of Pou he'll turn into James Hird and the Bont combined...

And if we stop criticising the game plan, Ross Lyon teams will be kicking over 100 points every week

It's all our fault

[sks023]

Going to stop reading this s***
You guys are .........

The supporter's are what's wrong with this club

Ok. Sorry

If we stop the criticism of King he will turn into a combination of Nick and Jack Riewoldt

If we stop the criticism of Pou he'll turn into James Hird and the Bont combined...

And if we stop criticising the game plan, Ross Lyon teams will be kicking over 100 points every week

It's all our fault

If we stop the criticism of the Billings pick, Bontenpelli might magically walk through the door

[sks023]

Going to stop reading this s***
You guys are .........

The supporter's are what's wrong with this club

Ok. Sorry

If we stop the criticism of King he will turn into a combination of Nick and Jack Riewoldt

If we stop the criticism of Pou he'll turn into James Hird and the Bont combined...

And if we stop criticising the game plan, Ross Lyon teams will be kicking over 100 points every week

It's all our fault

If we stop the criticism of the Billings pick, Bontenpelli might magically walk through the door

[sks023]

Ten fn years ago

[Scollop]

Ten fn years ago

Ahhhhh...hello

I wasn't talking about recruitment decisions

I was talking about the 'development' of young players right NOW

Don't continue playing young guys if they're making the same errors in games or showing bad habits. That includes Wilson, Pou and even Max King who is still relatively inexperienced