RTB's Presser

[Vortex]

Not that this will console anyone, however I said from the outset of RLs appointment that he doesn't have the "magic wand",

I kept asking the question,

"what magic trick does he have that no other coach in the history of the game has possessed"?

I tried to explain that it wasn't a criticism of Ross personally, and repeatedly said I am a Ross fan, he is still the best coach for the job IMO.

The point I was making was the biggest challenge our club will always face is the club itself and overcoming itself and its 150 year history.

A coach can't fix our 150 year problem.

Magic isn't real and coaches don't possess magic wands that can do magic tricks.

This current regime needs to stay the coarse for around 10 years, that includes from Basset down to the trainers.

We are in a hard rebuild and it will take time, this regime needs to get a rebuilt list to the critical mass of 50-100 game average and see what they can do.

If they fail then, sack the lot of em, and start again.

But in the mean time, buckle up and get used to the bottom 4 for a few years.

[spert]

I remember well the time around the club when Lyon left years back- it was common knowledge that he wasn't interested in rebuilding teams. The Lyon I used to notice at training back then looks and sounds a lot different than the one I've seen at training now. Back then he was clearly driven and whole lot more focussed. All I can say now looking at him at training, pressers etc is that he hasn't got the fire in his belly any more, he is fiddling around the edges and going through the motions. The Saints have been in continual rebuild for decades, and it's a handy excuse for poor performances and poor decision making at the club.

[flack]

So far this season we've lost six games. Five of them by a combined 28 points (on average less than a goal a gaame). It has cost us 20 points on the ladder, we should be sitting joint top with Sydney. Ross seems to think that the runners are the problem because he can't get his messages through (He's known about this problem for months but hasn't organised an alternative communications system). We seem to cruise onto the paddock and think we will win, how many times, so far this season has the opposition got the jump on us and we've tried catch-up football only to fall short? Ross, give them the message before they run out then you won't have to worry about the runners. The message should be to show a little enthusiasm for the game from the first bounce not halfway through the second quarter when you're four goals behind. It also makes it more interesting for the fans to see people trying to win rather than running around to collect their pay.

[Vortex]

I remember well the time around the club when Lyon left years back- it was common knowledge that he wasn't interested in rebuilding teams. The Lyon I used to notice at training back then looks and sounds a lot different than the one I've seen at training now. Back then he was clearly driven and whole lot more focussed. All I can say now looking at him at training, pressers etc is that he hasn't got the fire in his belly any more, he is fiddling around the edges and going through the motions. The Saints have been in continual rebuild for decades, and it's a handy excuse for poor performances and poor decision making at the club.

poor performance is guaranteed when you have a lack of talent as a result of playing one of the youngest lists in the comp, this is the realisation that isn't being communicated by the club adequately, we are in a really hard rebuild phase.

We had fans come into this season thinking were were going to improve on our finals performance of last year. Nearly all neutrals and pundits predicted we would slide, at what point do we except we over achieved last year.

[Yorkeys]

So far this season we've lost six games. Five of them by a combined 28 points (on average less than a goal a gaame). It has cost us 20 points on the ladder, we should be sitting joint top with Sydney. Ross seems to think that the runners are the problem because he can't get his messages through (He's known about this problem for months but hasn't organised an alternative communications system). We seem to cruise onto the paddock and think we will win, how many times, so far this season has the opposition got the jump on us and we've tried catch-up football only to fall short? Ross, give them the message before they run out then you won't have to worry about the runners. The message should be to show a little enthusiasm for the game from the first bounce not halfway through the second quarter when you're four goals behind. It also makes it more interesting for the fans to see people trying to win rather than running around to collect their pay.

All true.
I am thinking they do try, or think they try, but we don't have really driven leaders and experienced players with smarts that can channel the coaches messages during games.
Leadership group fail.
Ross has always had at least one match winning champion in his teams. Right now there are none. That's a big handicap to coach around.
Losing begets losing. Confidence ebbs.
The conventional wisdom on here is that our mids are poor collectively and some individually. Can't argue with that, its obvious.
I'd argue equally we need, at a minimum, one, maybe two strong forwards that play smart, can convert.
The backs and mids must we worn down by Membrey and King continually being impotent and really not posing serious threats, Owen's often wayward kicking and as a forward group not being able to stop rebounds.
Desperately need a couple of live wire forwards as well as a couple of mids. Perhaps Battle can reinvent himself, bugger all else on the horizon fowards wise.
Hopefully Henry can recapture form and make a partnership with Higgins. Membrey needs to go. Goodness knows what's going on with Max, he seems all at sea, rock bottom confidence and a bit passive when taunted. He can at least bruise defenders in pack contests even if he can't mark.
Anyway, has descended into a shambles. Need to virtually start again and forget saving the furniture, see what the younger group have. Time for a serious generational change.

[Teflon]

I remember well the time around the club when Lyon left years back- it was common knowledge that he wasn't interested in rebuilding teams. The Lyon I used to notice at training back then looks and sounds a lot different than the one I've seen at training now. Back then he was clearly driven and whole lot more focussed. All I can say now looking at him at training, pressers etc is that he hasn't got the fire in his belly any more, he is fiddling around the edges and going through the motions. The Saints have been in continual rebuild for decades, and it's a handy excuse for poor performances and poor decision making at the club.

poor performance is guaranteed when you have a lack of talent as a result of playing one of the youngest lists in the comp, this is the realisation that isn't being communicated by the club adequately, we are in a really hard rebuild phase.

We had fans come into this season thinking were were going to improve on our finals performance of last year. Nearly all neutrals and pundits predicted we would slide, at what point do we except we over achieved last year.

It feels…..awkward…saying this but I agree
I didn’t have us making 8 this year - why?
Thought last years fixture helped us
Now we are blooming kids and trying not to do a North …it’s a thin wedge
That said, we carry older players with little real value outside so our kids get exposed more cause we lack top end quality (Cats don’t that’s the difference) their older guys like Toohey, Hawkins, Blicavs etc still produce good enough footy and leadership to bring youth through
Point is we simply don’t have the cattle and that includes no midfield at all

[Vortex]

I remember well the time around the club when Lyon left years back- it was common knowledge that he wasn't interested in rebuilding teams. The Lyon I used to notice at training back then looks and sounds a lot different than the one I've seen at training now. Back then he was clearly driven and whole lot more focussed. All I can say now looking at him at training, pressers etc is that he hasn't got the fire in his belly any more, he is fiddling around the edges and going through the motions. The Saints have been in continual rebuild for decades, and it's a handy excuse for poor performances and poor decision making at the club.

poor performance is guaranteed when you have a lack of talent as a result of playing one of the youngest lists in the comp, this is the realisation that isn't being communicated by the club adequately, we are in a really hard rebuild phase.

We had fans come into this season thinking were were going to improve on our finals performance of last year. Nearly all neutrals and pundits predicted we would slide, at what point do we except we over achieved last year.

It feels…..awkward…saying this but I agree
I didn’t have us making 8 this year - why?
Thought last years fixture helped us
Now we are blooming kids and trying not to do a North …it’s a thin wedge
That said, we carry older players with little real value outside so our kids get exposed more cause we lack top end quality (Cats don’t that’s the difference) their older guys like Toohey, Hawkins, Blicavs etc still produce good enough footy and leadership to bring youth through
Point is we simply don’t have the cattle and that includes no midfield at all

you felt awkward, I will have a shower and scrub myself with Solvol for what I'm about to say...but I agree too.

We just don't have any older players who are weapons and create some focus by the opposition coach to try and stop them or take them out of the game, there just isn't any need for the opposition coach to assign any resources to our older players from the midfield to the forward line, the backline is the only properly working component.

Players like Steele, King, Membrey and Ross would't even show up on the radar of opposition coaches...King is the biggest concern from being potentially another wasted high DP, he's anything but looking like a weapon or a star of the game.

[jays]

This might be unpopular opinion but think we need to trade some players with currently one of Steele, Sinclair or marshal

[Leo.J]

…but we still have some incredibly poorly skilled, dumb decision making footballers getting a game who can’t produce under pressure that’s the bottom line…

This ^ is the issue.

And unfortunately some these players are our better players imo who get a lot of it.

I’m not sure of our team rules, but from what I’m seeing they are regularly kicking around corners blindly, and doing u turns when they have a capable teammate ready to receive under less pressure facing our goals. And they’ve been doing it since Ratten was around.

[B.M]

The same people sucking from the RL teets are the ones who argued the Chris Pelchen was doing the right thing with his ‘spreadsheet’ in 2012

They want a messiah to believe in

[wally]

We don’t have the cattle generally our skills let us down.
This is where I thought we’d be last year but was hopeful of better, after having a good year last year I hoped we’d be better this year.
Almost all the experts tipped us here so maybe they were right

[longtimesaint]

This might be unpopular opinion but think we need to trade some players with currently one of Steele, Sinclair or marshal

Then we can enjoy 100 point defeats instead of a goal!

[Teflon]

The same people sucking from the RL teets are the ones who argued the Chris Pelchen was doing the right thing with his ‘spreadsheet’ in 2012

They want a messiah to believe in

The same morons telling us coaches are overrated during Ratten years are now telling us it’s ALL coaching
Mindless batshyte

[The Fireman]

Not that this will console anyone, however I said from the outset of RLs appointment that he doesn't have the "magic wand",

I kept asking the question,

I think this is your biggest problem

You keep repeating yourself

[Teflon]

…but we still have some incredibly poorly skilled, dumb decision making footballers getting a game who can’t produce under pressure that’s the bottom line…

This ^ is the issue.

And unfortunately some these players are our better players imo who get a lot of it.

I’m not sure of our team rules, but from what I’m seeing they are regularly kicking around corners blindly, and doing u turns when they have a capable teammate ready to receive under less pressure facing our goals. And they’ve been doing it since Ratten was around.

Yep and that’s poor decision making
I love Marshall but I saw a stat yesterday that his dump kicks resulted in 11 direct turnovers
It’s just easy to play against - but is he doing them cause he knows mids are incapable of winning the loose ball??


Forget talk of runners from Ross presser yesterday…this is the main take out:


“I spoke at halftime I didn’t like how we were playing. There was a mundaneness to it, a sameness,” he said.
“I said ‘we’re better than that, let’s get some run and overlap and go, be bold’.
“We had 16 entries (in the third quarter) and thought the kids started using their legs. Even though we stuffed a couple up, that’s where we want to be more.”
Lyon said Max King, who kicked two goals but had minimal impact, is a victim of St Kilda’s hesitant mindset.
“I said we’d rather play the way we did against Essendon with plenty of sizzle. I don’t like how we’re playing at the minute,” he said.
“We don’t sit them down with placards saying don’t take the game on. You’ve got to drive the car and go quick, but to be honest I’d rather go over the hill again.
“I’d like to have a bit more than we’re displaying at the minute, it doesn’t sit very comfortably.
“Criticism will come and that’s fair enough. People will go after Max King, but I think he’s systematic of those problems.
“It’s a mindset and a quick fix. We might overcorrect and open ourselves up a bit, but I’d rather that than what’s happening at the minute to be fair.”

[The G Train Legacy]

For me, the worst thing about most of his pressers but especially today, was just how flippant he is. He was totally unprofessional, at one point says ""s*** happens." I don't care how tough or ruthless he may be behind closed doors, when he fronts up to the public, I would like to see the kind of demeanor one sees from Michael Voss or Chris Scott when their teams lose. It makes a difference because Ross is the one who always mentions the supporters in his pressers, so if you are speaking to us us, act like you're serious and mean business.

And for what it's worth, we have a midfielder, albeit a champion, coaching the forward line and a midfield coach with no experience. Is this the norm among the top teams?

Seriously, when you call him unprofessional for saying "s***", then your credibility is shot.

[Teflon]

The problem Lyon has - and I’m a fan is he’s wrong to say “it’s a quick fix”
That’s nice to say but not true
He doesn’t have players with the smarts in decision making to go fast
He doesn’t have the players who are “clean” one touch ball users - ours fumble, drop chest marks, overrun the ball or simply handball to someone who is hot OR (Hi Seb) bang it on the boot with Hail Mary hopes (he’s not alone)
That’s not a quick fix.

[The G Train Legacy]

You cannot fumble, slip and drop marks as much as we did, not to mention the idiot decision making and expect to beat anyone.

[B.M]

And you say now it’s the players fault when with pretty much the same list it was Rattens fault

We have a 9-12 list

I Dont believe in the messiah complex and that the coach is the panacea of all performance and results like you think (although now you’ve changed your tune!)
So I enjoy letting you know about it!!!

Ross apparently
Coaches well - when he has a great list
Coaches poorly- when he doesn’t

What does that suggest

BTW
Nice to see Ratts enjoying the win - in the Hawks box yesterday

[The G Train Legacy]

The problem Lyon has - and I’m a fan is he’s wrong to say “it’s a quick fix”
That’s nice to say but not true
He doesn’t have players with the smarts in decision making to go fast
He doesn’t have the players who are “clean” one touch ball users - ours fumble, drop chest marks, overrun the ball or simply handball to someone who is hot OR (Hi Seb) bang it on the boot with Hail Mary hopes (he’s not alone)
That’s not a quick fix.

I'll be a bit more specific than you have. He doesn't have the players in the midfield. Quick fix? I think its a matter of getting games into our more skillful youngsters, however long that takes is how long the fix will take.

[B.M]

Didn’t he have 2 All Australian players and an AA squad ruckman in the midfield yesterday?!

[nefron55]

And you say now it’s the players fault when with pretty much the same list it was Rattens fault

We have a 9-12 list

I Dont believe in the messiah complex and that the coach is the panacea of all performance and results like you think (although now you’ve changed your tune!)
So I enjoy letting you know about it!!!

Ross apparently
Coaches well - when he has a great list
Coaches poorly- when he doesn’t

What does that suggest

BTW
Nice to see Ratts enjoying the win - in the Hawks box yesterday

Same list? 28% of our team yesterday wasn’t even on the list in Rattens last game. Let alone the players in the VFL like Dow, Collard and Arie that are likely to see the field this year.

Not sure where you’ve gotten that “same list” idea from — doesn’t hold up to just simply looking at the team sheet.

Last, I can only speak for myself, but I’ll never enjoy seeing opposition coaches or players celebrate beating us. I wish Ratts the best, but I’ll never enjoy anyone beating us.

[Scollop]

And for what it's worth, we have a midfielder, albeit a champion, coaching the forward line and a midfield coach with no experience. Is this the norm among the top teams?

Yes men perhaps? Yesmen tend to keep their jobs at St Kilda

Let’s hope there’s someone who can challenge Ross during the week and especially on game day in the box.

[Vortex]

And for what it's worth, we have a midfielder, albeit a champion, coaching the forward line and a midfield coach with no experience. Is this the norm among the top teams?

Yes men perhaps? Yesmen tend to keep their jobs at St Kilda

Let’s hope there’s someone who can challenge Ross during the week and especially on game day in the box.

any credence to the fact he's coaching one of the youngest and talentless teams in the comp?

Is the problems we have really easily fixed with a game day tweak?

[Scollop]

any credence to the fact he's coaching one of the youngest and talentless teams in the comp?

That’s rubbish and you know it. We have 2 current All Australians from the 2023 side. We have Jack Steele who is a dual All Australian like Jack Sinclair. We have a star in Brad Hill. He wave Seb Ross and Marshall (both named in All Australian squads of 40). We have up and coming future stars in the team who have ticked the box on their elite talents like Owens and Wanganeen-Millera

We have senior players like Mason Wood who at stages throughout the year last year was tracking at All Australian inclusion. Battle and King and others have the talent. I haven’t even begun to talk about the teenagers. Don’t tell me we don’t have talent

I mean…let’s face it…Any coach can come into an organisation and he can be totally negative and say we have to get rid of everyone, or you find each player’s strengths and work with them.

Audio gate suggests that Lyon falls into the former category if you’re to believe one of the first things this bloke said in the coaches box when private conversations were leaked. Now…you can credit the coach for the year that unfolded last year…or you can credit the playing list.

I tend to think we made finals because of a “whole of club” positive environment and credit belongs to everyone, not just the coach and coaching group