Match Thread: Saints vs Hawks

[SinCitySainter]

It is not an either/or position.
We lack high-end talent, and skills across the board are substandard. However, that does not mean that the coaching is not also to blame. We have a coach who is completely opposed to attacking, he does not try to win the game. Ross coach's to breakdown the opposition but has no interest in actually attacking so when we get the ball we look lost. Do we even train attacking patterns because watching us play you would not think so.

Bassett needs to fire Ross and get in a coach who is not afraid to actually attack occasionally. We won't immediately start winning if we bring in an attacking or at least balanced coach but at least we won't be completely unwatchable.
We were horrible to watch the first time Ross was here and he was gifted an A grade side full of star power. Ross took a preliminary final team and got them one step further but that is the limit of his achievements.
Please Mr Bassett put us out of our misery and get rid of this anti-football, negative minded c grade coach.

[Ghost Like]

It is not an either/or position.
We lack high-end talent, and skills across the board are substandard. However, that does not mean that the coaching is not also to blame. We have a coach who is completely opposed to attacking, he does not try to win the game. Ross coach's to breakdown the opposition but has no interest in actually attacking so when we get the ball we look lost. Do we even train attacking patterns because watching us play you would not think so.

Bassett needs to fire Ross and get in a coach who is not afraid to actually attack occasionally. We won't immediately start winning if we bring in an attacking or at least balanced coach but at least we won't be completely unwatchable.
We were horrible to watch the first time Ross was here and he was gifted an A grade side full of star power. Ross took a preliminary final team and got them one step further but that is the limit of his achievements.
Please Mr Bassett put us out of our misery and get rid of this anti-football, negative minded c grade coach.

Seriously??? Thank you Mrs Richardson or is it Ms Ratten. "I love the way we attack and only lose by 8 goals." If you cannot tell the difference between now and 2011, time to pick another club. Were you whinging in 09 & 10 because you're a fan of the aesthetics? Feel free to be honest.

[Teflon]

Match thread discussion

Tip out Bonner - bring in Henry

Yep good one

Bonner 30 disp 81% TOG 87% DE

Henry 4 disp 82% TOG

I’d take Henry over Bonner anyway
Anyone with half a brain knows that
Bonner under pressure crumbles
We saw that against ESS ….17 clangers ??? Highest by a player since 2012??? **** me

[Teflon]

It is not an either/or position.
We lack high-end talent, and skills across the board are substandard. However, that does not mean that the coaching is not also to blame. We have a coach who is completely opposed to attacking, he does not try to win the game. Ross coach's to breakdown the opposition but has no interest in actually attacking so when we get the ball we look lost. Do we even train attacking patterns because watching us play you would not think so.

Bassett needs to fire Ross and get in a coach who is not afraid to actually attack occasionally. We won't immediately start winning if we bring in an attacking or at least balanced coach but at least we won't be completely unwatchable.
We were horrible to watch the first time Ross was here and he was gifted an A grade side full of star power. Ross took a preliminary final team and got them one step further but that is the limit of his achievements.
Please Mr Bassett put us out of our misery and get rid of this anti-football, negative minded c grade coach.

That’s THE biggest, simplest load of horse crap we have on here
We had 16 entries into F50 in Q3 and kicked ….1.5??????
WTF are you on about?
Stop with the cliched BS of others and pretending Lyons just “doing his boring footy again” its rubbish and not true
We have dead shyte players who fumble, drop chest marks, handball backwards, handball to a player standing still next to them UNDER pressure and who when the heat comes can’t kick a f kn goal
The club know this list isn’t up to it
They said it 2 years when they brought Lyon in
He’s trying to fast track games into kids - why do you think Hastie/Garcia held their spots????
It’s less about game plan and more about trying to bring talent through and get rid of the serial plodders …we all know who they are

[Scollop]

The club know this list isn’t up to it
They said it 2 years when they brought Lyon in

I think the opposite is true and they thought the list was good enough, but the coach wasn’t up to it.

Time for another presidents letter

[B.M]

Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story

[MCG-Unit]

Match thread discussion

Tip out Bonner - bring in Henry

Yep good one

Bonner 30 disp 81% TOG 87% DE

Henry 4 disp 82% TOG

I’d take Henry over Bonner anyway
Anyone with half a brain knows that
Bonner under pressure crumbles
We saw that against ESS ….17 clangers ??? Highest by a player since 2012??? **** me

So because I would have Bonner over Henry - any day, I only have half a brain

Toys and Pram Bored

[Scollop]

Bonner was our scapegoat for the loss against Essendon. I suppose we had to blame someone

He actually got a fair amount of footy and his work rate was there, but a few howlers were unforgivable

I watched that Essendon match on replay and it wasn’t the worst game I’ve ever seen from a Saints player.

In the last 4 rounds he has actually been very good. One of St Kilda’s better players in the last month.

[nefron55]

It is not an either/or position.
We lack high-end talent, and skills across the board are substandard. However, that does not mean that the coaching is not also to blame. We have a coach who is completely opposed to attacking, he does not try to win the game. Ross coach's to breakdown the opposition but has no interest in actually attacking so when we get the ball we look lost. Do we even train attacking patterns because watching us play you would not think so.

Bassett needs to fire Ross and get in a coach who is not afraid to actually attack occasionally. We won't immediately start winning if we bring in an attacking or at least balanced coach but at least we won't be completely unwatchable.
We were horrible to watch the first time Ross was here and he was gifted an A grade side full of star power. Ross took a preliminary final team and got them one step further but that is the limit of his achievements.
Please Mr Bassett put us out of our misery and get rid of this anti-football, negative minded c grade coach.

Damn if you thought '09 and '10 were unwatchable, I don't think you'll ever be pleased to be perfectly honest. Footy doesn't get much more dominant or enjoyable than that. Go back and rewatch some of the games.

We scored more that year (2197 points in 22 games) than Collingwood last season (2142 in 23 games) and I don't think anyone would accuse Collingwood of being defensive or unwatchable last season.

Also just another note -- he didn't take a "preliminary final team," he took over a team that had just finished 6th and gotten rolled in the finals by a crap Melbourne team.

[spert]

Whether the game plan is right or wrong doesn’t explain dropped marks, fumbles, missed tackles, mis-kicks, poor accuracy. Too many players not up to it.

That's the kind of thing you have a coach for- amongst other things, to work on deficiencies. I think Lyon is only interested in a game plan and structures, and is putting no work into basic team football skills which is the thing killing us. Looks to me like the list has lost confidence more than anything and is playing confused football- similar to the golfing yips

[saintsRrising]

Rebuilding to me


Means you are changing your core and building a different list

Virtually no club does it that way these days. And in the old days even less. North have tried to. The Hawks to some extent. No other club has, and certainly not in just a couple of years.

North years ago were first movers with the short lasting "!0 Year Rule" that allowed them to bring in a swag of champion players in Adrian Gallagher, Doug Wade, Barry Davis and John Rantall , and in turn their winfirst 2 Flags and 5 Grand Finals.


Rebuilding for most clubs is just in the main turning your list over more quickly than normal. There is a limit how quick for the very simple reason that clubs are limited in what good kids are available, and what talent you can actually attract from other clubs. And if you are not a contender then attracting genuinely good talent from other clubs is also very limited.

The Tigers had a champion core, and then topped up to win their swag of flags. Helped in part by fairly average opponents.

In recent time the Cats have been the best at regenerating their list. Swans pretty good, but with some academy legups.


Saints lack elite talent and that makes regenerating our list very had as we are already behind he 8 ball. Mores again as we lack elite talent in the midfield engine room, which is where you need it most.

With Crouch out of action this season (he was our best mid last year) our midfield has gone backwards.

We have increased our % of younger players, and like most clubs who have done this this makes you less likely to win games. Add to that a high suspension and injury rate and you get what we are seeing now.

Little other choice than to keep churning through the youth for St Kilda as very good players from opposition clubs will be very hard to land.

[Teflon]

Bonner was our scapegoat for the loss against Essendon. I suppose we had to blame someone

He actually got a fair amount of footy and his work rate was there, but a few howlers were unforgivable

I watched that Essendon match on replay and it wasn’t the worst game I’ve ever seen from a Saints player.

In the last 4 rounds he has actually been very good. One of St Kilda’s better players in the last month.

17 turnovers in Bombers game
Soft and can’t defend
Weren’t you after facts????

[Teflon]

Match thread discussion

Tip out Bonner - bring in Henry

Yep good one

Bonner 30 disp 81% TOG 87% DE

Henry 4 disp 82% TOG

I’d take Henry over Bonner anyway
Anyone with half a brain knows that
Bonner under pressure crumbles
We saw that against ESS ….17 clangers ??? Highest by a player since 2012??? **** me

So because I would have Bonner over Henry - any day, I only have half a brain

Toys and Pram Board

I think so this is self explanatory
Half brain board?

[Teflon]

Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story

Here’s some truth for you armchair

I counted 8 clearances between Marshall and Steele from a stoppage where they turned and kicked the ball directly forward. The ball went low and somewhere between 15 - 30 metres in a straight line towards the goal. Most were inside 50s, but not all.

Hawthorn either marked or picked up the ball from the deck uncontested every time. Every single one. Only 2 or 3 times did I even see a St.Kilda jumper in the tv frame

[Yorkeys]

Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story

Here’s some truth for you armchair

I counted 8 clearances between Marshall and Steele from a stoppage where they turned and kicked the ball directly forward. The ball went low and somewhere between 15 - 30 metres in a straight line towards the goal. Most were inside 50s, but not all.

Hawthorn either marked or picked up the ball from the deck uncontested every time. Every single one. Only 2 or 3 times did I even see a St.Kilda jumper in the tv frame

Our "forwards" are pitiful. They escape intense scrutiny because the mids are poor, but good heavens there's not one you would want to be in the trenches with. Soft as, attack on the ball? what's that - kick it to me all the time. Oh, sorry I missed. Next time. Work as a group - come on, that's for defenders.

[SaintWiki]

Rebuilding to me


Means you are changing your core and building a different list

Virtually no club does it that way these days. And in the old days even less. North have tried to. The Hawks to some extent. No other club has, and certainly not in just a couple of years.

North years ago were first movers with the short lasting "!0 Year Rule" that allowed them to bring in a swag of champion players in Adrian Gallagher, Doug Wade, Barry Davis and John Rantall , and in turn their winfirst 2 Flags and 5 Grand Finals.


Rebuilding for most clubs is just in the main turning your list over more quickly than normal. There is a limit how quick for the very simple reason that clubs are limited in what good kids are available, and what talent you can actually attract from other clubs. And if you are not a contender then attracting genuinely good talent from other clubs is also very limited.

The Tigers had a champion core, and then topped up to win their swag of flags. Helped in part by fairly average opponents.

In recent time the Cats have been the best at regenerating their list. Swans pretty good, but with some academy legups.


Saints lack elite talent and that makes regenerating our list very had as we are already behind he 8 ball. Mores again as we lack elite talent in the midfield engine room, which is where you need it most.

With Crouch out of action this season (he was our best mid last year) our midfield has gone backwards.

We have increased our % of younger players, and like most clubs who have done this this makes you less likely to win games. Add to that a high suspension and injury rate and you get what we are seeing now.

Little other choice than to keep churning through the youth for St Kilda as very good players from opposition clubs will be very hard to land.

... but if RTB explained more about what's going on and take some blame for Saturday's unnecessary annihilation, supporters and sponsors etc wouldn't be quite as hurt and exasperated. If he coached from the bench when the players showed so much confusion before the game was virtually lost it would at least demonstrate that he cared, but saying 's*** Happens' to the media post game is unacceptable.

[SaintWiki]

mod please remove - the delete 'X' button didn't work

[spert]

Let’s not let the truth get in the way of a good story

Here’s some truth for you armchair

I counted 8 clearances between Marshall and Steele from a stoppage where they turned and kicked the ball directly forward. The ball went low and somewhere between 15 - 30 metres in a straight line towards the goal. Most were inside 50s, but not all.

Hawthorn either marked or picked up the ball from the deck uncontested every time. Every single one. Only 2 or 3 times did I even see a St.Kilda jumper in the tv frame

Our "forwards" are pitiful. They escape intense scrutiny because the mids are poor, but good heavens there's not one you would want to be in the trenches with. Soft as, attack on the ball? what's that - kick it to me all the time. Oh, sorry I missed. Next time. Work as a group - come on, that's for defenders.

What you're saying is that maybe we need a coach to work with these guys and maybe get a system going??

[axcellence]

Coaches did well today

Not sure if I agree. Lacking in imagination and flair. Battle up forward was good. But the overall setup was horrible.
Something needs to change.

What were your moves??
How do you coach missed set shots??
18 inside 50s q3 for 1.5?????
WTF does coaching do about that ???

Settle down. I am not a coach but a supporter like the rest of us here. Supporting doesn't mean agreeing with everything. That would be expected for cults, which I hope this is not.

All these poor plays are symptoms of something not being right.

Ratts wasn't a great coach but had some good things he brought particularly how St Kilda kicked into F50 in the 2020 year. Lyon is good but I was hoping some of that Ratts IP would be used selectively — as an example. Just my take on something to think about.