Drafting 25

[Bowey Boy]

Add the terrible record of John Beveridge's recruiting. He is described as a "guru", based mainly on the fact that he'd survived for 30 years.

Check his record. It's shocking, overall. It was our trading in of players, such as Gehrig, Hamill, Penny, Guerra, Black, Powell, Lawrence, Voss, Gardner and King, that helped turn us around.

He was not responsible for securing these players. Had he not had Riewoldt handed to him, his record would be shambolic. He even stuffed up the best draft pack ever seen in 2001. Yes, he did pick Ball, Dal Santo and Montagna, but missing Judd by trying to be too smart cost us at least two flags.

Don't trust me on this. Check his record, including drafting players sight-unseen, such as Howard and Sweeney amongst others. Do the names of Quirk, Sims, Malone, our number one pick used on Harding, Russo and Nugent ring a bell? With the exception of Malone, who was a first rounder, all the others were our number one picks. Three number one and another first rounder, all wasted.

His refusal to draft Jack Riewoldt was also a howler. He went for Armitage, despite Roo begging him to take his cousin.

His record in the 90's was also poor. He was no guru. His record is down right embarassing.

I often wonder why he cops so little criticism on here, when he was the architect of our mediocrity.

He was in charge from 1983 until 2008, and after that he remained on as a "consultant" to Peake, Pelchen, Elshaug and Liberatore. Those four remain as the guilty partners in our continued mediocrity.

Hopefully SOS, Gubby, Dalrymple, Lambert and our scouts can now rectify things. Thank goodness COVID gifted us Windy and Mitchito.

I would like this post twice if I could.

[Saints58]

Do we start playing for a better draft position for 2025 now .. start playing all our youngsters getting game time into them accepting this season is gone …..which it is i believe.
Get whoever needs operations done now do they are right for pre season.
Guys like Heath , Keeler need game time to see where they’re at …. If they are no good put the next one in and stop wasting time on them.
Mid season draft has to be midfielders who can actually deliver the ball to a forward who is leading not standing tall for a bomb it in and hope for the best

Why mids we have a abundance of mids we do need another Ruck to help out Row there must be a good player in the state leagues playing that position.

[Saints58]

What's our draft hand like in this years draft? I recall we did a bunch of pick trades and I think have Adelaide's second rounder.

We gave up a second rounder for Henry but got one back from GWS for letting them move up the draft order.
Now that Battle has some interest from other clubs and is a RFA we should really consider what we might get for him as we not have Cordy, Dougal, Ari, Keeler to cover the KPD spot.
I would hope to get late second or early 3rd for Battle and it would greatly improve our draft hand.

[Killa]

Geelong not only had the father/son advantage

They also attracted players to the Club such as Ottens by deploying the methods they did

The offers of post football careers plays its part in Geelong noting not all former players have been successful in the business opportunities gifted to them

They do lose some such as Kelly but were richly compensated by WCE

Simply, not all things are fair

There are some who advantage - and some who don’t

Then you have Clubs pitching to players because they play “blockbusters” at the MCG and as a home ground

The first requirement is a stable, highly regarded Board

Then to the administration

So players know they are coming to a stable Club

That said the AFL competition is not a fair and equal competition

The AFL has a vested interest currently to repair the Balance Sheet post COVID when they borrowed heavily to survive the competition

They still survive Clubs because of broadcast rights - and that includes St Kilda a Club which should have folded in the 1980’s paying a paltry few cents in the $1- to both secured and unsecured creditors

That has been an Albatros around the neck of the Club and still is

[Killa]

We need support for Marshall, support for Howard and support for King

And we need goal kicking mids - so mids who win games by not only performing but because they also kick clutch goals

Do we have these resources on our books among our younger players?

Time will tell

Apart from that where do we get a May, a Lever, a Lynch, a Cameron, a Grundy et al?

All these players have been recruited from GWS or Gold Coast

Then we have Tasmania coming in - at least

[Killa]

That should have said look at the players recruited from GWS and Gold Coast - and where we have Steele who came to St Kilda for opportunity

With those players leaving those 2 Clubs have had a conveyer line of high Draft Picks as compensation

The other player Geelong lost for a time was Ablett to Gold Coast (Geelong getting what so compounding the father/son advantage)- noting they also had his brother under father-son

Who have St Kilda had as father-son?

The constant chopping and changing of List rules including now “Academy Players” has seen certain Clubs advantaged

When my son said he followed St Kilda because of going to the footy with me and associating with who he associated with as a youngster on match days, I cautioned that following St Kilda would not be easy - but we did win a premiership each season being the game we won

This was because of the cut of the deal St Kilda received then including Docklands

Just facts

[loris]

Apart from that where do we get a May, a Lever, a Lynch, a Cameron, a Grundy et al?

All these players have been recruited from GWS or Gold Coast

Then we have Tasmania coming in - at least

If I recollect correctly neither Lever, nor Grundy were recruited from GWS or Gold Coast.
Wasn’t Lever taken in his draft year by Adelaide?
Wasn’t Grundy taken in his draft year by Collingwood?

[Otiman]

We are shafted for father/son because we very rarely had players who played over 100 games in the era where their kids would be coming through.

[Scollop]

Geelong haven’t just stayed relevant through father son and the ‘lifestyle’ attraction for free agents.

While Geelong was playing in about 11 of the last 13 finals series…St Kilda were collecting high end picks in the National draft including the number 3 pick in 2013. Number 1 pick in 2014 and half a dozen picks from 7 -20.

We also got first crack at 2nd rounders and rookies and mid season talent.

We should have caught up to them by now…BUT…They continue to develop their youth better than us.

[B.M]

Do you reckon because their dad was a star player the son is going to be an AFL footballer?

Do you know what percentage of AFL footballers sons make AFL?

Some of the best players ever had sons who never even played

For every Gary Ablett son there’s 20 Gavin Browns sons and 100 that don’t even make it at all!

[Devilhead]

It's all about the Mum genes

[Scollop]

I just had a real wicked thought. Please forgive me... I'm a long suffering Saints supporter

This would be highly unethical and breach not only all moral standards (but I'm certain) lots of current laws

St kilda could pay some tall elite track and field athletes (Olympic Games times quality) for their donor eggs and do some IVF with Saints stars from the last 30 years who have played over 100 games.

The women who donate eggs don't necessarily have to carry the children. We'll find responsible surrogates. The surrogates and donors don't even have to raise the child. A wealthy sponsor or a corporate sponsor will own the kids...bit like the Truman Show movie with Jim Carrey

We need a 'puppy factory' type set up to ensure we can get a few babies over the line as future champions.

If possible we should also try cloning some of our premiership heroes from 1966

Whatever It Takes

[Laurie]

Agree with getting your picks right especially top draft picks in 2013 we picked Billings at 3 Bontompelli went at 4.
I know who I would rather have had
BOOM BOOM

[Life Long Saint]

Agree with getting your picks right especially top draft picks in 2013 we picked Billings at 3 Bontompelli went at 4.
I know who I would rather have had
BOOM BOOM

For Christ's sake, this old chestnut?
Can we put it to bed once and for all?
Every club would have put Boyd, Kelly, and Billings in the top 3. We selected the best player at that time.
The selection of Bontempelli was a big surprise at the time...He was predicted to go late first round. Kudos to the Dogs for taking the big punt. Not sure many other clubs would have pulled that trigger.

This is the classic example of hindsight drafting is 20/20. Easiest game in town!

[saynta]

This thread makes you wanna cry..very sad reading

[Scollop]

Every club would have put Boyd, Kelly, and Billings in the top 3.

'Every club' feeds the media whatever the media expect to hear. They're not going to disclose their actual picks

Only gullible supporters would swallow the excuses used by incompetent recruiters.

Only St Kilda would flip flop from the general vanilla selection in 2013 to the total opposite extreme the following year, by taking a gamble on someone with known health issues and well publicised fitness problems

As I've posted previously, if people think we should just go with whatever the popular opinion is from the media, then why bother paying for recruiting staff

[repta]

Geelong got father sons. But they also have the right structure.
Ling - slow plodder. Ordinary ball user. - make him an elite tagger.
Chapman. - use his balance. Strong around the ball. Not enough motor for the midfield. Archetype defensive lock in forward.
Recognise both the strengths and weaknesses.
That's what makes elite teams.

Saints currently have players that think they are elite and aren't. King is a prime example. He has actually done very little in his career. At nearly 24 he should be coming into elite. He has potential. A long way outside top 100 players currently playing.

[Scollop]

Only St Kilda would flip flop from the general vanilla selection in 2013 to the total opposite extreme the following year, by taking a gamble on the most important pick of all - the number 1 draft pick. McCartin was someone with known health issues and well publicised fitness problems

Edited bit in bold

[Life Long Saint]

Every club would have put Boyd, Kelly, and Billings in the top 3.

'Every club' feeds the media whatever the media expect to hear. They're not going to disclose their actual picks

Only gullible supporters would swallow the excuses used by incompetent recruiters.

Only St Kilda would flip flop from the general vanilla selection in 2013 to the total opposite extreme the following year, by taking a gamble on someone with known health issues and well publicised fitness problems

As I've posted previously, if people think we should just go with whatever the popular opinion is from the media, then why bother paying for recruiting staff

No dispute on the McCartin decision...It's a shame, though that we never got to see him realise his potential as a key forward. We'd clearly be a much better team with Petracca in the team...But if we had have taken the Bont, then I doubt we'd have finished last to be in the discussion for Petracca. We'd have probably ended up with another concussion victim in Brayshaw at pick 3.

But on Billings v Bontempelli...What makes you think I am going by what the clubs were feeding the media?
Mock drafts had Billings as high as pick two and Bontempelli as low as 12.

He was a clear top 3 pick and no amount of attempting to re-write the history of predictions will change that.

[B.M]

Why not Billings vs Paddy Cripps or Zac Merrett?

Why limit it just to Bontempelli?!

Why not Dane Swan or Brian Lake in 2001 and not Josh Houlihan

What about Nat Fyfe in 09 - we traded the pick just before he was selected for A Lovett

What about Taking David Armitage when James Frawley and Jack Reiwoldt were taken a couple of selections after that?!

What about taking Ben McEvoy when the next pick was Paddy Dangerfield and two picks after that - Cyrill Rioli?

Lot of what ifs

The big one was McCartin though. Every mug with half a brain would have taken the beast that is Petracca!
McCartin was fat, slow and had limitations that were obvious
Not overly tall, not a great set shot. Dropped marks.

[B.M]

Petracca

Larke Medal - best Division 1 player in the champs
Runner Up in the Morrish Medal
B&F Eastern Ranges

Massive vertical leap (indicates leg power)

[SaintPav]

Colossal f*** up.

Trout must be a total dumb arse.

[SaintPav]

Why not Billings vs Paddy Cripps or Zac Merrett?

Why limit it just to Bontempelli?!

Why not Dane Swan or Brian Lake in 2001 and not Josh Houlihan

What about Nat Fyfe in 09 - we traded the pick just before he was selected for A Lovett

What about Taking David Armitage when James Frawley and Jack Reiwoldt were taken a couple of selections after that?!

What about taking Ben McEvoy when the next pick was Paddy Dangerfield and two picks after that - Cyrill Rioli?

Lot of what ifs

The big one was McCartin though. Every mug with half a brain would have taken the beast that is Petracca!
McCartin was fat, slow and had limitations that were obvious
Not overly tall, not a great set shot. Dropped marks.

What about King over Rozee?

How’s that pick looking now?

[SaintPav]

Trout tried to spin a medical condition as an attribute/strength when it was clearly a big risk.

Finnis sensed something was wrong but didn’t have the balls to go with his intuition and over rule. That’s what a good leader is supposed to do. Same with Richo. Idiots believed their own bulls*** analysis/rationalisation but they were too close to it and couldn’t see straight.

[B.M]

Let’s revisit King vs Rozee in 5 years

I’m spewing we didn’t live trade for Ben King too