Aberration or reality check or both?

[older saint]

I tend to this the former that last night was an outlier. Never before in this Lyon era have we been so bad, lacked effort and desire. 3 games in 11 days and 2 interstate trips, absolutely contributed, but we were appalling. I won't go as far as the Goose they had hosting on SEN after the game last night who was talking like we just lost our 3rd game in a row by over 50 - what a clown- however there are definitely some holes that need fixing.

The first problem is that the obviously solutions are not available at this point in time. Our best 22 players injured.

We lack A grade players - we all know this - Marshall, Steele and Wilkie are A grade.
We lack high skilled players - remember Owens, Windy were post pick 30 selections. Mattaes was 10, NAS 11, King 4, Clark 7, Henry 9, Dow 3
So we lack top 5- 10 class and what we have from recent times were all out injured last night.
We have done very well with later picks but lack silk.

This team started transitioning last year and more so this year with RTB running the trade/delisting period. Progress is not linear so in many ways I am not surprised by our inconsistency considering our unavailable players.

From our best 22 not available last night : King, Crouch, Henry, Wood, Howard, Webster(?) around 1/4 of the team .
Replace then with Sharman/Caminiti, Jones, Butler, Cordy, Phillipou(on form), we look a hell of a lot better.

I fully expect a more St.Kilda performance v Port. Effort , pressure and of course a close loss. That will be the season win some lose others close and i don't expect any more shallackings. Finish around 11/12th pick 8-10 , and then look to get creative and turn that into top5 because that is the level of talent we miss

Changes from the stands:

Out: Butler (inj), Phillipou, Caminiti, Cordy,
In: King, Howard, Hayes, Collard(if fit)/Hastie

Jones keeps a spot only because there is no other big bodied mids to come in v Port and their midfield. Dow missed too much to come straight in

B: Stocker. Howard, Wiklie
HB: Nas, Battle, Sinclair
C:Wilson, Steele, Hill
HF: Higgins, Membrey, Garcia
F: Collard, King, Hayes
Foll : Marshall , Steele , Brynes

Int: Ross, Owens, Bonner, Jones,
SUB : Sharman

Sharman sub as too top heavy with him in 22 IMO.

[Scollop]

I heard that idiot on SEN as well. He was talking through his arse...probably a Geelong supporter

Speaking of St Kilda hating Geelong supporters...I switched from SEN to 3LO (the local Melbourne ABC Radio station) and heard Lingy say..."St Kilda haven't improved. They got low picks in the draft. "They're not getting much out of Clark and Coffield"

Coffield isn't even on our list imbecile!!

What an absolute incompetent lazy and unresearched Geelong turd.

[Killa]

Having responded in another (strangely) titled thread in the last half hour can I just add to this thread that Older Saint is the most sensible contributor to this site

[Killa]

And not my opinion but fact

[older saint]

Having responded in another (strangely) titled thread in the last half hour can I just add to this thread that Older Saint is the most sensible contributor to this site

Appreciate the love.
Best thing i did was ban myself from posting for a minimum of 12 hours after a loss, otherwise might not sound so sensible.

[B.M]

It was shitfull

That’s what it was - a reality check for people who think we are better than we are

Will finish 12th to 14th this season

[cwrcyn]

We lack midfield talent and on top of that we have Henry, Crouch, Dow, and Clark out to make the situation even worse. We are minimum chips in there at the moment.

It's a real shame none of those guys are fit. It would have been interesting to see them in the mix week in, week out.

Yes it was bad against the Dogs, but we've been in every other game and could easily be 4 -2. Without all the injuries we could even be 5-1.

It's not surprising to see the reaction on here. There's enough negativity about the players, the coach, and the club even when we're playing okay..

We all know the list is not where anyone wants it to be, so I think overall we need to be realistic about the fact that it's going to take more talent coming in the door before we get to a top four position

Personally, I'm glad Lyon is coach and I'm glad we're going to the draft again this year.

People are impatient, but I've seen enough disastrous attempts at the quick fix to know that the approach being employed now is sensible.

We had a bad loss. It stank and it was depressing to watch. We're playing youngsters in place of seasoned players and were bound to have inconsistency because of it.

As Lyon says, it's never as good as it seems and it's never as bad a it seems

[bobmurray]

Essentially we've been rebuilding for 58 years.

I wouldn't call fans going off over another big loss impatient with it's progress.

[Killa]

Wilkie Howard ………
Sinclair Battle Wanganeen-Milera
Hill Steele Henry
………. ……….. ……….
Higgins King …………
Marshall Crouch Windhager
………. ………… ………. …….. ……….
The caveat is that Battle is just 193cm and 80dd kgs, so mid-fielder size not KPP size (noting the job he does)

To these incomplete foundations we ideally add Owens, Phillipou, Wilson and Garcia each of whom are currently playing and variously performing

Then we get to Wood and Clark who are up to the standard

So that is 6 to take the 10 positions described ……….

But we do not have support for King nor do we have support for Marshall

In regards those in the midfield who can hit the scoreboard with regularity we look to Hill and Henry - and Wood

For all the commentary on class mids, what they do do is hit the scoreboard (including because you can mismatch them forward - think Jarman)

Mids with 200 games and 30 goals across those games do not cut the mustard

They are simply not dangerous so by extension not match winners which is what you want your mids to be

The foregoing is why we look to our untried kids starting with Heath, Van Es, Keeler and Schoenmaker (and Caminiti who has had opportunity)

[Annoyedsaint]

We lack midfield talent and on top of that we have Henry, Crouch, Dow, and Clark out to make the situation even worse. We are minimum chips in there at the moment.

It's a real shame none of those guys are fit. It would have been interesting to see them in the mix week in, week out.

Yes it was bad against the Dogs, but we've been in every other game and could easily be 4 -2. Without all the injuries we could even be 5-1.

It's not surprising to see the reaction on here. There's enough negativity about the players, the coach, and the club even when we're playing okay..

We all know the list is not where anyone wants it to be, so I think overall we need to be realistic about the fact that it's going to take more talent coming in the door before we get to a top four position

Personally, I'm glad Lyon is coach and I'm glad we're going to the draft again this year.

People are impatient, but I've seen enough disastrous attempts at the quick fix to know that the approach being employed now is sensible.

We had a bad loss. It stank and it was depressing to watch. We're playing youngsters in place of seasoned players and were bound to have inconsistency because of it.

As Lyon says, it's never as good as it seems and it's never as bad a it seems

See this is what pisses me off. What’s the point of being patient?

More of the same in a few years time when a few of the older players retire? Then flog through the same cycle of draft picks that turn to

Philipou is another Billings at this stage. Probly hold on to him for 9 years too

The crowd last night was over this nonsense.
Half will be lucky to turn up next home game because they’ve had enough.

[Yorkeys]

What's the alternative to being patient.
I've tried stamping my foot.Scores stayed the same.

[bigcarl]

B: Stocker. Howard, Wiklie
HB: Nas, Battle, Sinclair
C:Wilson, Steele, Hill
HF: Higgins, Membrey, Garcia
F: Collard, King, Hayes
Foll : Marshall , Steele , Brynes

Int: Ross, Owens, Bonner, Jones,
SUB : Sharman

Like those changes. The ins, Howard, King, Hayes give us a better looking spine. Run is important, but so is strength, height and structure.

As for whether it’s an aberration or we should be expecting more of the same, I’ll say only that RTB gets the best out of what he has available and that we need to be in for the long haul.

Our midfield missing so many mature-bodied players is the major worry. Even with, say, Crouch, Dow, Clark and Wood in it arguably lacks the star quality of the contenders sides. I mean, who is our Bont or Petracca or Cripps?

Match-winning midfielders is what we need and maybe one or a couple of Owens, Windhager, Wilson, Phillipou, Garcia can become that. But it’s going to take time

[loris]

older saint why would you leave windhager out of your side? Or is that an oversight on your part?

[mad saint guy]

It was shitfull

That’s what it was - a reality check for people who think we are better than we are

Will finish 12th to 14th this season

Don't think you can definitively say that we won't finish higher than 12th. Our mid-season fixture is a whole lot easier than the start of the year so I could see us building momentum and getting on a bit of a roll if our list health improves.

If we can put a side like this on the park for the majority of the rest of the season then I think we could sneak into the 8. Won't do any damage in finals but it'd be valuable experience

B: Wilkie, Howard, Webster
HB: NWM, Battle, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wood
HF: Wilson, Sharman, Owens
F: Higgins, King, Membrey

Foll: Marshall, Crouch, Windhager
Int: Clark, Stocker, Dow, Garcia, Poo

Fringe/rotating through: Ross, Jones, Cordy, Collard, Byrnes, Butler, Hayes, Hammer, Paton

[TheGreatZacsby]

On Phillipou…

I wouldn’t compare him to Billings at all. Kid has second year blues. A lot of players have had it before I.E - Clark, Windhager, Coffield etc. He will come good. You see glimpses of the potential. He’s just got to put it all together. The kid is still 19. Wait for the maturity to kick in.

[spert]

On Phillipou…

I wouldn’t compare him to Billings at all. Kid has second year blues. A lot of players have had it before I.E - Clark, Windhager, Coffield etc. He will come good. You see glimpses of the potential. He’s just got to put it all together. The kid is still 19. Wait for the maturity to kick in.

The kid has talent, but right now (and a fair bit of last season), he is VFL standard, and that's where he needs to be- and put in one position to develop. He needs to be stronger in the upper body, and work on his running, which further development can bring as he matures.

I might add that I am hoping that the coaches are working with Owens and Caminiti about positioning when the ball comes into the forward half- they are either watching the game and getting caught out with fast play, or, they are having issues with reading the play generally. Owens does a few great things then disappears for big hunks of a game, and really needs to be demanding the ball more as a physical style of player, same with Caminiti to lesser extent.

[B.M]

After this season

Will do a stats comparison between Phillipou and Billing

Who by and large play the same position (HHF)

[axcellence]

Not an aberration or reality check.

More a case of selection failure. King replaced twice with a runner when he's gone off for suspension or injury. Need a tall for a tall.

[older saint]

older saint why would you leave windhager out of your side? Or is that an oversight on your part?

massive error on my part .

Windy in
Jones out

[Yorkeys]

After this season

Will do a stats comparison between Phillipou and Billing

Who by and large play the same position (HHF)

Stats to include age, weight, height/height change, games played, ladder positions?

[B.M]

No

Possessions
Goals
Tackles
Score Involvements

A measure of his output and impact on field as a HF

[Scollop]

After this season

Will do a stats comparison between Phillipou and Billing

Who by and large play the same position (HHF)

While you're at it, do a comparison with:

1. Billings and Bontempelli
2. Billings and Sheed
3. Billings and Cripps

...and just for giggles between Billings and Acres

[Annoyedsaint]

Just compare anyone we’ve drafted.

I’ve basically given up now. We just don’t do anything right with what we can control.

We get wet over a few young guys….why?
Compare them with other sides young guys.

It’s not even a comparison.

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

Windhager is tracking nicely as a desperately needed inside, midfield bull. NWM is already an automatic selection who is a crucial part of our defense.

Wilson looks right at home at this level, as will Garcia. Owens is a potential gun, who's being used the wrong way, IMHO.

The Pou is an interesting one. I believe he will end up elite. I base this on his form from the first half of last year. How could anyone not get "wet" having seen that?

He is learning some hard lessons by being used in the midfield, but this a sound investment for his development. Don't forget he was the youngest in the competition last year.

The biggest threat is the possibility he does a JHF and goes home. I won't believe he is committed to us until he signs again. Quite frankly, given some of the speculative and ill-informed shyte written about him on this site, I can only hope he doesn't read it.

It would be typical if he slipped through our fingers and became a star back in Adelaide. Then the usual suspects would whine about how awful our club is at everything, and that we let another champion go.

Give the kid a break. Give him a bit of time, for goodness' sake. He will be a star of the competition. Hopefully, with us, and not with the inhabitants of that "weird Gothic town" on the Torrens.

[bobmurray]

Wilkie Howard ………
Sinclair Battle Wanganeen-Milera
Hill Steele Henry
………. ……….. ……….
Higgins King …………
Marshall Crouch Windhager
………. ………… ………. …….. ……….
The caveat is that Battle is just 193cm and 80dd kgs, so mid-fielder size not KPP size (noting the job he does)

To these incomplete foundations we ideally add Owens, Phillipou, Wilson and Garcia each of whom are currently playing and variously performing

Then we get to Wood and Clark who are up to the standard

So that is 6 to take the 10 positions described ……….

But we do not have support for King nor do we have support for Marshall

In regards those in the midfield who can hit the scoreboard with regularity we look to Hill and Henry - and Wood

For all the commentary on class mids, what they do do is hit the scoreboard (including because you can mismatch them forward - think Jarman)

Mids with 200 games and 30 goals across those games do not cut the mustard

They are simply not dangerous so by extension not match winners which is what you want your mids to be

The foregoing is why we look to our untried kids starting with Heath, Van Es, Keeler and Schoenmaker (and Caminiti who has had opportunity)

Can you let Steven May know that at 193cm he is not a Key Defender, whatever happens after that is not my concern.