Moving the magnets

[Otiman]

We are in a stage of the season where we are seeing some magnets move around the board at a fast pace. I want to ask some questions of you all.

Sharman - Having the least productive season of his career. What's his position?

Cordy & Howard - With Cordy's current form you can't drop him. Can you play them both in the same team? (see next question)

Battle - Played in the middle for some minutes and went beast mode. We need hard bodies and physical players to go with our talented youth. Do you persist with him if Cordy and Howard are both available? Shoenmaker, McLennan and potentially Van Es could be knocking at the door soon too.

King - Well discussed in the "Trade King" thread but should he player higher up the ground or deepest forward?

Philippou - The midfield experiment isn't immediately working. Do you persist or put him in a position where he can start to dominate and get some confidence?

With full availablity, what does our best starting midfield (including Wing) look like?

What other 'outside the box' thinking player movements would you consider?

[Sainter_Dad]

Are we winning the cup this year?

Are we even contending?

If the answer is no - use the year as a development one and GET GAMES INTO THE KIDS - including playing those in unfamiliar roles to develop them.

[Otiman]

The answer is no to both at this stage, despite the small losses we are still a 6th-12th team, but if we find ourselves with 3 rounds to go and are in with a chance, we throw everything at it.

[nostalgicsaint]

Are we winning the cup this year?

Are we even contending?

If the answer is no - use the year as a development one and GET GAMES INTO THE KIDS - including playing those in unfamiliar roles to develop them.

We've consistently had one of the youngest sides this year. Games are being put into the kids.

[shrodes]

Are we winning the cup this year?

Are we even contending?

If the answer is no - use the year as a development one and GET GAMES INTO THE KIDS - including playing those in unfamiliar roles to develop them.

We've consistently had one of the youngest sides this year. Games are being put into the kids.

Correct, average age this year has been 25.2 (AFL avg. 25.8). That puts us 15th - only Hawks, North, West Coast lower, and those three are very clearly rebuilding.

Interestingly, unlike those sides we are 10th for games experience (93.2 vs AFL avg. 99.0)

Though I would say perhaps much of that is outs related rather than strategy - Wood, Crouch, Paton, Webster all would have potentially been in and brought up the average.

[Vortex]

We are in a stage of the season where we are seeing some magnets move around the board at a fast pace. I want to ask some questions of you all.

Sharman - Having the least productive season of his career. What's his position?

Cordy & Howard - With Cordy's current form you can't drop him. Can you play them both in the same team? (see next question)

Battle - Played in the middle for some minutes and went beast mode. We need hard bodies and physical players to go with our talented youth. Do you persist with him if Cordy and Howard are both available? Shoenmaker, McLennan and potentially Van Es could be knocking at the door soon too.

King - Well discussed in the "Trade King" thread but should he player higher up the ground or deepest forward?

Philippou - The midfield experiment isn't immediately working. Do you persist or put him in a position where he can start to dominate and get some confidence?

With full availablity, what does our best starting midfield (including Wing) look like?

What other 'outside the box' thinking player movements would you consider?

Good discussion points, all pretty much sum up the mood of the room I'd say and I'll add this.

I know I have a bit of fun with Sharman but behind all of that I am resolute in my belief he isn't AFL standard, in fact a loving way off it, and most certainly isn't suited to a wing, 3 possessions before being moved behind the ball in defence where he can use his straight line running in the hope he can get hands to incoming balls, specifically the high ones, is absolutely useless below the knees and had zero agility.

King to trialled much higher up ground, still think he'd struggle as CHF because he has very similar weakness to Sharman in that he's a straight line runner, low agility and offers zero at ground level, these are one wood skills if you play the half to high half forward role. It might be time to try Max in a Ruck or defensive role...essentially behind the ball.

The Pou is just unfortunately still a season or two off from having confidence in a physical sense, but he's creating that same anxious feeling us Saints fan have had all too often over the past 20 years, have we used another high draft pick on a player who might not reach that potential? A fair way to go yet before we know the answer but still he's struggling with some basics.

Battle moving to a postion where he can create more play going our way is worth a trial, but my only reservation is does this unsettle what appeared to be a settled backline, watch this space I suppose to see how it plays out when Howard returns. At the very least Howard adds some talent and experience to the whole 23...something we are really short on presently.

[D.B.Cooper]

Howard has played with some success as a key forward at PA.

If we are happy with Corey perhaps Howard plays forward with King, that gives us two pretty quick mobile 200cm types to match up on up forward.

[saintkev]

Mmmm, two 200cm players with heaps of ability, but poor body language up forward who won’t chase are tentative tacklers and reluctant to win a hard ball?

[meher baba]

I’d like us to keep playing our players in the roles in which we believe they might perform the best.

For King that’s FF.

For Battle and Howard that’s down back.

For Philippou that’s midfield to half-forward, where he went very well against the Bombers and quite well against the Tigers. He was relatively quiet yesterday, but he’s still developing. I reckon he’s a really good ‘un.

For Sharman, his best position might well be at Sandy. Whatever they are trying to do with him right now certainly isn’t working.

As I’ve posted before, I reckon the magnets best worth moving around might be in the coaches box. Swap Banger and Boris. Let’s see what Boris can do in terms of positioning King and Caminiti and the rest of them. I reckon the guy is top drawer. The forward line is our biggest problem ATM so give him a crack at it.

[asiu]

if i moved magnets

i'd move magnet king higher ... use him as a link
and to roost long shots even take some throw in ball up work

magnet sharman deep ... give him the responsibility to lead , mark it then kick it through the big sticks
... the 'responsibility' of being the man , will be his making

(its got the smell of roo n kosi all over it)

and we didn't work that properly either

[Otiman]

Interesting to note the centre bounce attendees with the game on the line after Caminiti's goal.

Marshall
Steele
Garcia
Battle

Steele was the only mid from our usual rotation in there. Battle ended up with the clearance.

Was it just a throw of the dice or is there something to read into that?

[Scollop]

Interesting to note the centre bounce attendees with the game on the line after Caminiti's goal.

Marshall
Steele
Garcia
Battle

Steele was the only mid from our usual rotation in there. Battle ended up with the clearance.

Was it just a throw of the dice or is there something to read into that?

Correction. Steele got the clearance. You can also check afl.com.au (6 centre bounce attendances and zero clearances for Josh)

This is from the match day thread.

Could have nearly pinched it with 41 seconds left on the clock after Caminiti goaled. The last ruck battle wasn’t won by Marshall or Briggs. The ball was still in the centre circle. Jack Steele burrowed in and got the footy out to Josh Battle. Josh had Nas running past and right there ready to receive the handball, but Battle bombed away blindly inside 50 and it was marked by GWS. Game over

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 3#p2052513

[Scollop]

Josh did what Steele and Seb and Crouch and Zak and Clark and others have done. He'll learn from it.

I've been saying for years that Josh needs to help out our mids. I think he's perfectly suited (strength, size and aggression). Needs to practise and do drills at training and he will be an asset imo

[Yorkeys]

Maybe if one of our forwards marked it.
Then Josh is a hero. Unless, and this is unlikely, the said forward missed a regulation shot under pressure.
But our forwards are often too polite to out mark defenders.

[Otiman]

Correction. Steele got the clearance. You can also check afl.com.au (6 centre bounce attendances and zero clearances for Josh)

Far be it for me to argue with a pedant. That's usually me.

He got the I50 from the pack and was instrumental in getting it forward.

[Scollop]

Correction. Steele got the clearance. You can also check afl.com.au (6 centre bounce attendances and zero clearances for Josh)

Far be it for me to argue with a pedant. That's usually me.

He got the I50 from the pack and was instrumental in getting it forward.

[Scollop]

Maybe if one of our forwards marked it.
Then Josh is a hero. Unless, and this is unlikely, the said forward missed a regulation shot under pressure.
But our forwards are often too polite to out mark defenders.

Guess who we had positioned 45 metres dead in front of where Battle kicked it to?

Darcy Wilson

As, I said in the 'Forward Line' thread. We don't have a Key Position Forward lining up at the true centre half forward spot because it's not in the game plan

[Yorkeys]

Well I never would have guessed that.

As for the game plan, I was - yet again - not taken into the coaches confidence.
Do you get a weekly or play by play update as part of your membership.

[Saints58]

Howard has played with some success as a key forward at PA.

If we are happy with Corey perhaps Howard plays forward with King, that gives us two pretty quick mobile 200cm types to match up on up forward.

Really like it when someone thinks outside the box could happen but I don't think so.
We need to go after some like a Jamar he is not resigned and him and King would be dangerous.
But in mean time play Hayes as a forward with king caminiti and Member with smalls around them and Hayes can give a chop out in ruck with caminiti which would allow Row to play forward when they are rucking, pretty damaging forward line.
Plus play King at CHF he is mobile enough and is harder to match up on

[Plugger12]

Proposed changes

-Keeler in to play 2nd ruck. How damaging was Marshall/ Ryder combination
-Higgins as a centre layer or dropped
-Darcy permanent wing
- Sinclair permanent centre
-Matteus centre or wing or learn craft in seconds after he signs contract extension
- delist byrnes, as athletic attributes but no football brain
-Butler to seconds to obtain form
- Henry in centre or wing

[Scollop]

Well I never would have guessed that.

As for the game plan, I was - yet again - not taken into the coaches confidence.
Do you get a weekly or play by play update as part of your membership.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh....

Not too hard to see what's happening out there

Take off you rose coloured glasses. They're impeding your ability to watch the game

E.g. Higgins is one of the few blokes that regularly leads towards the kicker. It comes naturally to him when he sees space in front of him. He can't help himself. It often leads to turnovers and the runner gets sent out to remind him that's not 'Saints Footy'

[SaintPav]

Isn’t Higgins our leading goal scorer for the season?

[Otiman]

Proposed changes

-Keeler in to play 2nd ruck. How damaging was Marshall/ Ryder combination
-Higgins as a centre layer or dropped
-Darcy permanent wing
- Sinclair permanent centre
-Matteus centre or wing or learn craft in seconds after he signs contract extension
- delist byrnes, as athletic attributes but no football brain
-Butler to seconds to obtain form
- Henry in centre or wing

I like some of the thinking.

Keeler - yes but not yet. Has some skills to learn at VFL level first.
Higgins is such a frustrating player to have on the list. Can tear a game apart, or lose it with stray kicking. All I know is he's not a lead up forward and should leave that space for others.
Wilson is a true wingman, it's clear as day from his first game.
Pou is "midfielder or bust" at the moment. I hope it's not bust.
Disagree on Byrnes. At worst is depth and still has some improvement in him. Fits the age bracket we are building.
Hard to nail Henry on a single game, but he offered so much both on the ball and drifting forward. Defintely our X factor.

[saintsRrising]

We are in a stage of the season where we are seeing some magnets move around the board at a fast pace. I want to ask some questions of you all.

Sharman - Having the least productive season of his career. What's his position?

This year I don't thing he knows as the Coach is throwing him all over the ground. So position he is being used in this season is probably "Finger in Dike". Plugging holes.

Whereas I think he is a forward first and foremost. Probably with that is the selectors are playing all of Owens, Pou and Menbrey as medium fowards as well.

Cordy & Howard - With Cordy's current form you can't drop him. Can you play them both in the same team? (see next question)

Howard will eventually replace Cordy. One thing about Howard is he is our best spoiler. So you use Wilie and Battle to take intercept marks and Howard to spoil.

Battle - Played in the middle for some minutes and went beast mode. We need hard bodies and physical players to go with our talented youth. Do you persist with him if Cordy and Howard are both available? Shoenmaker, McLennan and potentially Van Es could be knocking at the door soon too.

Battle is very good down back. Yes use him occasional in other roles, but mainly play him down back.

McLennan is a possible future Webster replacement.

Van Es is most definitely not knocking on the door soon. But yes hopefully he can become a full back. No chance this year though.

Now Shoenmaker is the interesting one. He oozes talent. But when next season starts will he at 195cm currently have beefed up somewhat and be more tracking to be our next FB or CHB? Or will he try and stay more lithe to play on the flank?

King - Well discussed in the "Trade King" thread but should he player higher up the ground or deepest forward?

Higher. Play him CHF and have him push up to take marks on the wing and to receive kick-ins.

Philippou - The midfield experiment isn't immediately working. Do you persist or put him in a position where he can start to dominate and get some confidence?

What position is that? At present Pou does not scream any position. Hopefully in 2025 he can find a position.

With full availability, what does our best starting midfield (including Wing) look like?

Wood Henry Hill Steele Dow Windy/Crouch

What other 'outside the box' thinking player movements would you consider?

Well how about the absolutely crazy having a full list to select from? Yes I know. It will never happen.

We potentially have most positions covered if we can get down to only a few injuries.

Would love to see how Garcia can go at AFL as a midfielder / forward playing full games. He and Wilson both look like the most ready to play now of our draftees from last draft. Hopefully he gets a crack at it before Dow become available to play.

[spert]

I think the best thing for Pou is to spend time over summer with a running coach, and just get bit more speed in those legs. He is so not a midfielder, and to me, only a forward.
Lyon needs to just put Sharman in one position in the forward half, and stop swinging him around- he is too smart a player to be wasted plugging gaps.