Training Reports

[The_Dud]

Not behind jones

Sincs is playing HB

= with Crouch

Ahead of all the others you named

...in your opinion.

Which is in contrary to many others.

If Seb is the second best midfielder on our list then we are in deep sh*t.

[D.B.Cooper]

Pretty much every poster has wanted him out of the side for 3 years

Read this thread and any other that involves Seb

Outside of me and Saynta- he is ridiculously underrated

Never seen such a good player get bagged - in 40 years supporting the saints - he is the most underrated (by fans) player in my memory

I agree Seb has been highly underrated by some posters on this site, as much as any player I have seen.

The statement of pretty much every poster except you and Saynta is pure fantasy.

There are many other posters on this site who have paid due respect to Sebs career, myself included.

I think the unwarranted negativity toward Seb
drives you to overrate Seb, but nonetheless he has had a very good career (not a great one IMO) and has been an exemplary citizen for the journey.

And yes he’s still first choice 22 at this stage and Seb is the type of guy who would still be a leader even if playing reserves so LG does not make him immune to being dropped.

[B.M]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

[shrodes]

Credit to Barrels

BigFooty training wrap 21/02/2024
By Barrels

WARMUPS and DRILLS

• First things first… it was absolutely STANKING hot.
• Boys very very vocal in the run throughs.
• No Crouch today, which is a bit of a concern.
• Zak Jones was running laps at a rapid click.
• Tom Campbell was back on the track.
• Collard could fit three of him inside his shorts… gone full Eddie Betts.
• Allison was paired off with one of the coaches on the far side, during warmups…think it was BJ… seemingly teaching short leading.
• Hunter in full training, but in the fluro “don’t touch me” cap.
• Wilson training with the forwards, Keeler with the backs, Hotton, Henry and Pou with the mids.
• Hammer and Allison spent time training with both groups of key positions.
• Byrnes training with the forwards as well; possible reinvention as an Eddy/McQualter 2.0-style defensive forward.
• McLennan looks a lot more mobile than last year. Pleasing.
• Rehab group was Jones, Hayes, Butler, Sinclair, and Van Es. Moose was doing timed runs again. Sincs in particular was moving very well.
• Sir Leonard Hayes was doing a short areas drill where after three handballs they HAD to move the ball competitively inside a 8m or so circle. Drove them very hard. BJ was watching closely. Group was with Max, Ro, Doogs, Wilkie, Bonner, Battle, Wilson, Seb, Chito, Henry, Windy, and Hill when I was watching. Hands were predominantly excellent.
• Keeler is an absolute weapon in close quarters for a very tall kid. Moves like he’s 20cm shorter.
  Garcia goes full throttle at all times. Absolute madman. Lenny and BJ love him.
  Moose off by himself with a coach working on marking, then immediately getting back on what would be the mark and moving the ball.
• Butler taking set shots from 35m out in the “wrong” pocket. Didn’t kick a single one.
• Butler and Hayes kicking to each other on repeat leads was interesting to watch. Both looked proppy still.
• Darby Hipwell (Sandy) back on deck again… club is putting a LOT of work into him. No idea who the borderline albino in 46 was though (got called Hugo during match sim, so I assume Hall-Kahan), or 37.
  Half ground drill with mostly the probables was very competitive. Other than the more obvious ones… Bonner was involved, as we McLennan, Hipwell (Sandy), Garcia, Hotton, Wilson and Stocker.
• Hammer absolutely obliterated Doogs on the lead. Twice. Doogs was… unimpressed.
• Stocker (on Titanic) was extremely vocal. As much as Wilkie. He’s in excellent form and nick.
• Every time there was a marking contest, Enright would restart as if there had been a turnover in defence, regardless of whether someone was kicking for goal or not. Kept the boys moving and thinking.
• The ball could come in from either of the “ruck contes” on either wing. Funnily enough, no actual ruckmen were involved.
• Ross gave BJ a minor talking to about something… no idea what, but was interesting; he doesn’t even give the coaches an inch!

MATCH SIM

• Red the probables at my end, McLennan on Snags, Zlugger on King, Stocker on Titanic, Keeler on Membrey.
• Coaches full of praise for the Irishman for him decision making out of defence.
• Chito kicked the first for Red from a set shot from 45m.
• Max sat out the back on Keeler who got beaten over the top trying to cover. Kicked the second for Red from a set shot snap deep in the pocket.
• Howard outpaced Allison on the lead at the other end to snuff out a promising entry for Yellow.
• Very clean transition down the outer wing lead to a goalsquare dribble goal to Hill (I think) for Red.
• Hunter in the middle for Yellow, still in the “hands off” cap. Moving very smoothly. Bit of a group in-drawn breath when he floated across an oncoming Steele to spoil.
• Pou played entirely in the midfield.
• Hastie sat very well in the hole for Yellow to deny a Chito lead. His kicking is lovely.
• RTB stopped the entire sim to tell everyone off for their positioning.
• And again to tell Zlugger off for not making sure the Yellow defenders were where they were supposed to be.
• After the sim, Wood did a heap of work with the Irishman on defensive positioning. He’s a superb mentor.
• There was some general farting about with goalkicking and blokes taking hangers over Batch, who was wearing a tackle bag on his back.

They went inside after that. Can’t blame ‘em.

I’m out. It’s about 58° degrees in the shade…

[The_Dud]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Also criminally overrated by ignorant supporters.

Not sure there's a metric that exists to back up the claim that he is currently equal with Crouch.

Crouch AVERAGED 27 touches per game last year, Ross only topped that once last year.

[B.M]

I think their careers are not to dissimilar - albeit slightly different players

Both very good AFL mids

Both club champions
Seb 2017 & 2019
Brad 2019

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Also criminally overrated by ignorant supporters.

Not sure there's a metric that exists to back up the claim that he is currently equal with Crouch.

Crouch AVERAGED 27 touches per game last year, Ross only topped that once last year.

Brownlow Votes last season:

Crouch- 18
Seb- 1

Brownlow votes across the last two seasons:

Crouch- 28
Seb- 1

I’m very far from a “Seb hater” and have stuck up for him plenty over the journey, but I would think if everyone’s available in the midfield, that he’d be in serious danger of getting the vest at the very least.

The thing he clearly has going for him the most would be his excellent two way running, but guys like Jones or Dow are more likely to be “impact players”, with their explosive speed, so if all 3 are fit and available- along with Clark, Steele, Crouch, Windy, etc- he’d have to be in serious danger of missing out.

There simply won’t be room for all of them. A good problem to have. We haven’t batted this deep in the midfield for an awfully long time.

We might not have the top-end talent of some midfields, but damn we’re going to bat deep.

Steele
Crouch
Clark
Seb
Jones
Dow
Windy
Henry?
Pou
Owens

Then on the wings

Wood
Henry
Hill
Byrnes
Wilson

[SaintPav]

A bit of re writing history on here.

For whatever reason, SR hasn’t played consistently well for ~ 5 seasons.

[Moods]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Who’s our best? Steele?
I would hope that Pou, Wilson and Owens surpass him and would be disappointed if all didn’t have better careers. Obviously Sinclair is a better mid when he goes in there.

Seb’s been a terrific servant for our club but really barely known outside our 4 walls. His kicking isn’t up to scratch for an elite mid, but he’s strong, willing and a fantastic example of someone getting every inch out of himself. Seems like a good bloke which can’t be underestimated.

I think it’s pertinent to remember that we were crap when he won his B&F’s. Does that make him crap? Of course not. But our midfield has been weak for a very long time. Put it this way, would Ross (even at his very best) had been a lock in the 22 in 09/10? In my view he would have been great depth, but no way he would get before Lenny, BJ, Joey or Dal. Maybe Clint Jones who played a tagging role

[B.M]

Average 25ppg in 2022

More than 25 poss 13 times

Finished 5th in the best and fairest
Crouch finished 6th

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Who’s our best? Steele?
I would hope that Pou, Wilson and Owens surpass him and would be disappointed if all didn’t have better careers. Obviously Sinclair is a better mid when he goes in there.

Seb’s been a terrific servant for our club but really barely known outside our 4 walls. His kicking isn’t up to scratch for an elite mid, but he’s strong, willing and a fantastic example of someone getting every inch out of himself. Seems like a good bloke which can’t be underestimated.

I think it’s pertinent to remember that we were crap when he won his B&F’s. Does that make him crap? Of course not. But our midfield has been weak for a very long time. Put it this way, would Ross (even at his very best) had been a lock in the 22 in 09/10? In my view he would have been great depth, but no way he would get before Lenny, BJ, Joey or Dal. Maybe Clint Jones who played a tagging role

Seb at his very best would walk into any team somewhere. In his best season he came 8th in the comp in the coaches votes, made the AA squad and received 14 Brownlow votes.

He was also fantastic at going head-to-head with the best in the other teams midfield. For instance he went head-to-head with both prime Danger and prime Dusty and got the 3 Brownlow votes and 10 coaches votes against both of them. The following year he had a game of 40 disposals and 3 goals against the powerful WB midfield, then 40 more the next week. A guy like that walks into any team.

[B.M]

We won 12 games when he won his first B&F he made the AA Squad go 14 Brownlow votes and averaged 29.8ppg

Misnomer that we were ‘crap’

In 2009 and 10 Joey was not an inside mid
Lenny and Dal were elite
CJ was a tagger
Ball was a solid player
I think Seb makes the team as a secondary mid off the bench

[Moods]

We won 12 games when he won his first B&F he made the AA Squad go 14 Brownlow votes and averaged 29.8ppg

Misnomer that we were ‘crap’

In 2009 and 10 Joey was not an inside mid
Lenny and Dal were elite
CJ was a tagger
Ball was a solid player
I think Seb makes the team as a secondary mid off the bench

Probably makes it ahead of Ball version 09.

I do think his last few years have been average, but he has had some excellent years

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

We won 12 games when he won his first B&F he made the AA Squad go 14 Brownlow votes and averaged 29.8ppg

Misnomer that we were ‘crap’

In 2009 and 10 Joey was not an inside mid
Lenny and Dal were elite
CJ was a tagger
Ball was a solid player
I think Seb makes the team as a secondary mid off the bench

In 2009 Joey had 84 clearances and in 2010 he had 121, Dal only had about 10 more across the two years, while they both had about 480 contested possessions. They both played predominantly inside. In the 2010 prelim Joey had 17 contested (5 more than our next best) and in the drawn grannie he had an equal game-high 14, and 7 clearances.

Prime Seb would have been an upgrade on the crippled Ball, and obviously Faz Ray. He was very good for a minute there.

[SAINT-LEE]

And watch Seb get 25+ most weeks and perform his role

He played 17 games last year and got above 25 touches 3 times and exactly 25 twice

I wouldn’t call that most weeks

He got less than 20 touches 8 times

You gush

You selfish bastard!
How dare you throw in facts when we are all
gushing!

[Vortex]

We won 12 games when he won his first B&F he made the AA Squad go 14 Brownlow votes and averaged 29.8ppg

Misnomer that we were ‘crap’

In 2009 and 10 Joey was not an inside mid
Lenny and Dal were elite
CJ was a tagger
Ball was a solid player
I think Seb makes the team as a secondary mid off the bench

In 2009 Joey had 84 clearances and in 2010 he had 121, Dal only had about 10 more across the two years, while they both had about 480 contested possessions. They both played predominantly inside. In the 2010 prelim Joey had 17 contested (5 more than our next best) and in the drawn grannie he had an equal game-high 14, and 7 clearances.

Prime Seb would have been an upgrade on the crippled Ball, and obviously Faz Ray. He was very good for a minute there.

Just reminded me how good Joey was.

[The_Dud]

We won 12 games when he won his first B&F he made the AA Squad go 14 Brownlow votes and averaged 29.8ppg

Last season we we won 13 games, Crouch got 18 Brownlow votes and averaged 27.1ppg.

[CQ SAINT]

Seb goes at 65% uncontested and that hasn't really changed at any time. At his peak he received a lot of ball on the run.
In a better side, 50% DE wouldn't be tolerated or rewarded as much as it was at St Kilda.
Ratten exposed him and his disposal average dropped considerably. He would be a bench rotation mid at most clubs if he could improve that DE.
Alas, he is almost in the 200 club at St.Kilda for a good reason. Great athlete, great role model, very coachable.

[samoht]

Seb had knee and hamstring issues last year.

Hopefully, he will have an injury free run this year.

[Sanctorum]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Also criminally overrated by ignorant supporters.

Not sure there's a metric that exists to back up the claim that he is currently equal with Crouch.

Crouch AVERAGED 27 touches per game last year, Ross only topped that once last year.

Brownlow Votes last season:

Crouch- 18
Seb- 1

Brownlow votes across the last two seasons:

Crouch- 28
Seb- 1

I’m very far from a “Seb hater” and have stuck up for him plenty over the journey, but I would think if everyone’s available in the midfield, that he’d be in serious danger of getting the vest at the very least.

The thing he clearly has going for him the most would be his excellent two way running, but guys like Jones or Dow are more likely to be “impact players”, with their explosive speed, so if all 3 are fit and available- along with Clark, Steele, Crouch, Windy, etc- he’d have to be in serious danger of missing out.

There simply won’t be room for all of them. A good problem to have. We haven’t batted this deep in the midfield for an awfully long time.

We might not have the top-end talent of some midfields, but damn we’re going to bat deep.

Steele
Crouch
Clark
Seb
Jones
Dow
Windy
Henry?
Pou
Owens

Then on the wings

Wood
Henry
Hill
Byrnes
Wilson

You've omitted Jack Sinclair from your list of mids APS, there's been a lot of talk that he'll spend more time in a midfield role this year. Another possibility is Nasiah Wanganeen Milera who is expected to take his game up to another level. Both Riley Bonner and Liam Stocker are classified as mids on the Saints website so there's definitely a heck of a lot of competition for midfield spots.

There's no question that Seb Ross has had an impressive and meritorious career at St Kilda, but I believe that his best years are behind him.

To that extent, I go along with the opinions expressed by some that if Ross is in fact selected ahead of Windhager especially, as well as fully fit Jones and Dow, then the midfield has not improved.

St Kilda's midfield has lacked dynamic lifters for many years and that's what I expect we might see in 2024 from any of Sinclair, Jones, Windhager, Henry and Dow. All of these blokes have speed to burn which is what Lyon has long said is key to the team's game plan.

[Otiman]

I've not seen any evidence that Sincs role is going to change much this year. I still think he is best served off half back, and spend Q4 in the middle unless the game is iced.

[spert]

I've not seen any evidence that Sincs role is going to change much this year. I still think he is best served off half back, and spend Q4 in the middle unless the game is iced.

The problem being that our midfield in some games just went missing and Sincs went in there to add some spark, but we took a strength out of HB to fix another problem. Consistency has been a big issue in our midfield and I hope we can sort it out.

[Otiman]

I would hope Nas and Bonner could hold down half back. Nas potentially better than Sincs in 2024.

[Killa]

One of the marked improvements in Sinclair’s game has been his overhead marking abilities - albeit off half back

One of my knocks on Ross is that he does not mark overhead therefore has limited flexibility and that restricts him and the team

So he can not go forward, creating a mismatch, taking a grab and snagging a goal

Hence the number of goals he has kicked across his career

Good mids snag one on average every second game

[D.B.Cooper]

If history is anything to go by

He is clearly our second best mid

Equal with Crouch imo

Criminally underrated by ignorant supporters

Also criminally overrated by ignorant supporters.

Not sure there's a metric that exists to back up the claim that he is currently equal with Crouch.

Crouch AVERAGED 27 touches per game last year, Ross only topped that once last year.

Brownlow Votes last season:

Crouch- 18
Seb- 1

Brownlow votes across the last two seasons:

Crouch- 28
Seb- 1

I’m very far from a “Seb hater” and have stuck up for him plenty over the journey, but I would think if everyone’s available in the midfield, that he’d be in serious danger of getting the vest at the very least.

The thing he clearly has going for him the most would be his excellent two way running, but guys like Jones or Dow are more likely to be “impact players”, with their explosive speed, so if all 3 are fit and available- along with Clark, Steele, Crouch, Windy, etc- he’d have to be in serious danger of missing out.

There simply won’t be room for all of them. A good problem to have. We haven’t batted this deep in the midfield for an awfully long time.

We might not have the top-end talent of some midfields, but damn we’re going to bat deep.

Steele
Crouch
Clark
Seb
Jones
Dow
Windy
Henry?
Pou
Owens

Then on the wings

Wood
Henry
Hill
Byrnes
Wilson

Our weakness is a high quality midfield, hopefully the young up and comers improve that.

Marshall - A grade
Sinclair - Elite 1/2 back (midfield?)
Steele - A grade (B last year under duress)
Crouch - B grade (Was A grade in first 1/2 of season)
Clark - C Grade (A grade potential if he ever gets there)
Seb - B grade ( was A grade at his peak)
Jones - C grade (A grade on his day, C grade career)
Dow - C grade (lets hope he lives up to his potential)
Windy - C grade (B+ potential)
Henry? - C Grade (A grade potential)
Pou - C grade (A grade potential)
Owens - B+ (Elite potential)
Wood - B+ grade
Hill - A grade
Byrnes - D grade (B grade potential)
Wilson - Unknown

Potential A grade to elite from the younger group
Pou
Owens
NWM
King