D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Sun 18 Feb 2024 4:40pmThanks bobmurray, I think you should go a little easy on Ross, he did have hip replacement surgery a couple of months ago and he's not at playing weight either.bobmurray wrote: ↑Fri 16 Feb 2024 3:31pm I went to training today, the practice match was what i enjoyed watching most.
When the Red team was made up of the likely 23 for round 1 they were too good for the Blue team which looked like it was the Saints Sandy contingent.
Heath, Hayes, Clark and Van Es were all part of the injured group doing fitness and ball work on the far side.
Jones was nowhere to be seen, not sure if he's injured again.
Interesting to hear Dougal yell at Wilson telling him he's an elite runner so he should use his running skills better when chasing an opponent.
When Ross and Crouch were part of the Blue team's midfield they were getting walloped out of the middle.
When the Blue team leaked a few goals Ross yelled out to his Blue teammate Stocker, hey Stock, get "your" defenders better organised.
The coaches helped the Blue team out not long after that, they mixed up the Red and Blue players, made it a bit more even.
At the end of the match practice i heard one of the players yell out, Good Pre-Season Guys as they all gathered in the middle of the ground.
Training Reports
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Re: Training Reports
How many defenders will The Saints pick in the 2024 draft ?
- shrodes
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Re: Training Reports
Not exactly a training report but I'm lapping up everyone's observations right now in this optimistic preseason period, so might as well post this one with pre and post Xmas impressions
With credit to Joffaboy
With credit to Joffaboy
1.Jack Higgins – Not much different to last year, plying forward, not a great runner, gone are the days where he was the great new recruit. Still has the tricks but shiney new toys have surpassed him at training.
Post – Has trimmed down and has played an active role in match sim, looking to get front and centre of the likes of King, Caminiti and Sharman. Probably R1
2.Marcus Windhager – looks cut, running hard keeping up in the hard running drills just behind Wilson. Looks set for a big year, so far playing out of the midfield in whatever match sim they have been playing.
Post – So match sim has been playing out of the mids more, less of a run with role but still do so. Has improved his upper body strength and running ability.
3.Zak Jones – One of the standouts at training. Has been quick enthusiastic, hard at it every session. Accuracy (under no pressure like everyone else) has been excellent. Was devastated not to have played finals and having a bad interrupted season. Get him fit and he is like a new recruit.
Post – Disappointingly has been hampered by leg injuries and a touch of concussion, set to be right by R1. Running hard and very switched on. Yelling at bj in a match sim because he wasn’t throwing it in quick enough. Competitive beast. Competition for R1
4.Lance Collard- Will take time, very raw and physically underdeveloped. Is a natural footballer and has plenty of raw talent, has missed a few training sessions from what I can see. Seems to be pretty happy and settled.
Post – absolutely blitzed a match sim where he took a contested mark and missed, then took off with a four bounce effort just missing, then almost taking mark of the year, then outpointed Stocker one on one to kick truly from 45 on the angle. All in the space of about 7 minutes. Last match sim quiet until he bobs up out of nowhere and kicks a crummers goal. Think will get a chance this year. There are going to be some very unhappy WCE supporters.
5.Brad Crouch – currently being managed.
Post – joined in full training, full body contact match sim, in and under, knee heavily strapped so still being managed, should be Ok fo R1
6.Sebastian Ross – looks the same as usual. Fit, hard runner, poor kick. Have a feeling his days are numbered, many more impressive so far this preseason. Not that he is disappointing, but he has reached his best and is trying to maintain it.
Post – Same old Seb, gets the ball, does something good then kick one of his high helicopter kicks. Has been a great servant and will probably get the nob R1, but I am hoping we have the likes of Wilson Henry, Windy etc go past him this season.
7.Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera – taller, more filled out, working off a half back flank (think he may take Sinc’s position as he rolls through the midfield more.) A beautiful user of the ball, can only get better for Naz.
Post – coming of a half back, trying to get the ball in his hands as often as possible. Linking up with Hill and Henry to give us some fantastic run and gun out of defence. Certain R1 starter
8.Brad Hill – very happy, hard running guy at training. Always having a laugh, getting around the younger indigenous guys, maintains his standards at training.
Post – senior player, lots of talk revving up players, very loud, leads by example and is linking beautifully with the likes of Naz, Henry, Wood, etc. Does a fair bit of talking with Ross and the assistants. Coaching a possibility for Brad? Certain R1
9.Jack Steele – looks a bit heavier than last year. Being managed
Post – like Crouch, in full training, looks fit and raring to go, not missing a beat in match sim. Certain R1 starter
10.Mitch Owens – filled out, being managed. A real specimen.
Post – playing match sim, full training, having stints through the guts and up forward, looking better every time I see him. Certain R1
11.Hunter Clark – has been impressive at Preseason. Hard running, looking fit, playing inside last training session at semi contact match sim. Hopefully he stays injury free, with the likes of Henry, Dow, Steele, Crouch, Windy, Sincs and Mitch and even Wilson running through the guts, may finally show his top 10 draft pick form and skill.
Post – can’t catch a break (except for a bone) see above, pre Xmas had been quite impressive, going in for the hard ball and looking very good. Gets an errant elbow and he cracks and eye socket. Physically right for R1, but geez these head shots would be an effort mentally.
12.Max King – managed. Taking uncontested marks two hands above his head.
Post – in full training, looking like a force to be reckoned with. Kicked four in three quarters the other day. Certain R1
13.Ryan Byrnes – another to impress. Works very hard at training, has looked very sharp, now has lots of competition. Like Jones can’t just dial it in wth the likes of Wilson, Pou, Dow, Henry etc now at the club.
Post – Ronnie has a bunch of competition, mainly off a wing/hbf with the occasional through the guts. A Jones or Crouch injury could see him in the team, just outside in my view
14.Liam Stocker – much fitter than last year. Tank improving, middle of the pack in the 400 metre repeats, not lagging out the back. training the way he plays.
Post – has impressed of half back in match sim. Like Wilkie, calm and confident, rarely gets beaten. R1 for him
15.Paddy Dow – good pickup. Excellent through the mids. Seems very balanced and his seniors experience really shows with his positioning. His disposal has been good which has been the knock on him (caveat, it has all been non contact, little pressure). Certain first 22 starter in my view.
Post – a leg injury has derailed his preseason, not back at full training, maybe next week. Prior to that was a certain starter. Will get his chance once fit.
16.Dan Butler – managed
Post – starting training next week, prefer others R1. Wont be fit enough
17.Isaac Keeler. Nice size, still to fill out, glides about the field, highly skilled, nice disposal. I would be disappointed if he is being trialled as a backman. He is an out an out ruckman in my opinion. Maybe like Sharman, being developed down back but not a permanent position.
Post – is being developed as a backman and has started to show signs. Gets to the fall of the ball and can use his leap to spoil. Has a way to go in development but has such skills with ball in hand. A year at Sandy and lets see
18r.Jack Hayes – Managed. Hardly an injury before coming to the Saints. We have cursed the poor bloke. Forgotten man who could be a real X factor utility.
Post – looks fit, running hard, starting training next week. Get him fir, playing at Sandy and we could utilize him in the back half of the year when we have injuries or managing people.
19.Rowan Marshall – absolute class. Should have been AA ruckman. Really is a cut above all our other rucks. Rolled an ankle last session before Christmas. Didn’t look too bad.
Post – our most important player. Tom Campbell is a good backup and Heath a way to develop. If he goes down, we are real skinny (hence it would be good to have Jack Hayes up and about.) R1
20.Dougal Howard – Doug being Doug. Hasn’t pulled any arms out of sockets so that’s a bonus.
Post – Working well with Wilks, Battle,Web, and Stocker. Will be R1
21.Zaine Cordy – his tank is still terrible, still being played down back.
Post – has been doen back and been going ok, think it is out of him and Howard for the key back and I would give the nod to Howard
22.Darcy Wilson – elite runner, again last session, running at the front of the fastest group hardly blowing. Has been iffy with disposal during drills, but during match sim – Wow, his skills in close and disposal was a thing to see. We have a beauty.
Post – his match sim has been tidy more than outstanding, being directed to position a lot, which is only natural, he is 18 and getting used to the structure, zones and playing process. I reckon we have an absolute beauty in Wilson but would not rush him into R1 given our list health. But he will be in the seniors this season I predict.
23.Liam Henry – my BOG for pre season training. Is quick very enthusiastic, and trains like it’s the last time he will ever do it. If he plays as he has trained, we are in for a treat. Seems to have fit in really well, like Brad Hill, always a smile on his face, looks like he is well liked by the playing group and coaches. Is Freo really that bad? Must have hated it there. Disposal has been fine. Early sessions it looked a bit rusty, but as the training has gone on it has gotten sharper and sharper (with the usual caveat about no pressure)
Post – his linking up with Naz, and Hill is something to see. Played out of the middle for a time in match sim and looked good, then moved to a flank and was getting oodles of space to be the link up coming out of defence through the mids. Certain R1
24.Angus Hastie – got a bit to do to fill out, but is very clean with the ball in hand, and positions nicely in match sim type drills.
Post – a development year for Angus. Very skillful and has good game sense. A touch of physical development required.
25.Mattaes Phillipou – only a couple of weeks older than Wilson. Collard, Hastie and Shoey but has played 24 senior games. His core looks stronger and he is only just behind Henry as the BOG for preseason. Seems his pantsing in the final is burning in his guts. Has a Roo like look about him re core strength.
Post – running through the mids at match sim. Taller, fitter through the core, and ready to take the next step. As old as our 2023 recruits, but a preseason ahead. R! certain
26.Josh Battle – every time I see him he looks better down back. Elite runner and huge tank. Our BOG in the finals and will take a very good backman to displace him.
Post – hasn’t been much said about Josh, but looks very assured and settled down back. The backline works so efficiently with Doug, Wilks, Web and Stocker. Has really looked balance in match sim R1 certainty.
27.Arie Schoenmaker - haven’t seen too much of him but what I have I like. Supersonic boot, big arse and tree trunk legs, a steal at #62.
Post – ahh rumours, scuttlebutt, subterfuge after Xmas. The washup is that he is leaner, quicker and running as hard as anyone in defence. A little outplayed in match sim, but there is no problems with his fitness or commitment. And that boot FMD it goes miles.A good year in development at Sandy
28.Tim Membrey – nice to see Tim happy, looking fit, and leading well. Has been one of the good news story of preseason. Looked sharp in match sim, looked like he was enjoying himself.
Post – looks fit and happy. Back to his best and will compliment King and Sharman/Caminiti/ Higgins/ Collard. Should be a R1 starter
29.Jimmy Webster – nothing much to report. Doing his job and will probably start in the 22.
Post – relaxed and gelling with the statistically best backline from 2023. R1
30.Matt Allison – I wish him well, but don’t think he will make it. Just not impactful at training when he needs to be. Does the occasional good thing, just seems to get beaten, a bit too much. Hope I am wrong.
Post – tries hard, but I still can’t see it. Reckon he will be a great VFL player, just doesn’t get it enough.
31.James Van Es – managed. Running very strongly final session. Has a great filled out body. Told me he was increasing loads.
Post – well loads became non existent. Don’t know when he returns.
32.Mason Wood – managed. Running strongly. Recovering from shoulder surgery.
Post – some load management concerns, however is in full training and looking as good as ever on a wing. Very fit and can run all day.
33.Ben Paton – not being played down back, more like a half back flanker, has done what he needs to do this preseason without standing out. Could come under pressure to be first 22.
Post – off a wing and through the gits in match sim. I don’t know what the future holds for Ben TBH.
34.Hugo Garcia – mainly managed. Joined in for a few drill today then ran. A bit small in my view.
Post – has stepped up in a big way after Xmas. Coaches love him and as Barrels said whatever it is, he has got it. May get a chance this season however if not, I can see him in seniors regularly from 2025 onwards
35.Jack Sinclair – what do we expect from Sinc’s except the best. He has transitioned by the looks to mid mainly. Blew himself up in the first run last session, probably on purpose. Stayed at the back in the second run and encouraged Hotton.
Post – had some minor calf issue and is being managed should be ok for R1
36.Riley Bonner – another half back flanker, surprised he was delisted. Nice size, footy smarts, nice disposal. Looks ready made for seniors.
Post – not doing himself any harm in his training, match sim and attitude. Settled in straight away and as said above looks ready made for seniors. Knock apparently is his two way running. That will decide when Ross selects him. I cant fit him in at the moment.
38.Tom Campbell – there for backup for Roh. But boy does he work at training. Gets around the group. No accident he got clubman of the year in 2023.
Post – great with the kids, knows his role, happy to play it and be a club man. I can see coaching for Tom down the track.
39.Olli Hotton – 2023 was an interrupted year with a back injury. Working his way into the drills and match sim. Needs to work on his tank a bit. Had him working with the main runners (Willson, Sincs, Battle, etc). Earmarked for mid work but a bit of a way off.
Post - Has come on quire a bit. Like most inside mids, he doesn’t get noticed because he is under the pack, Put him, Stocker, Sincs, and GOAT in a picture, you would think they were quads. They all look so much like brothers. He has been much better since Xmas and has been ok in the match sim. A sneaky chance at a mid spot during this year.
41b.Angus McLennan – can’t see it with this kid. Average size, average skills, average decision making, average runner.
Post – still can’t see it, but other trackwatcher can, so I am happy to be wrong. If I am it means we have another excellent player. Happy with that. I will say he is a vey good mark.
43r.Cooper Sharman – very impressive this preseason with everything he does. Bigger tank, very nice positioning up forward outworking his opponent in match sim. Our best in the final up forward. A keeper.
Post – Coops seems to be a bit ahead of Hammer. I have like what I have seen with Cooper this preseason. A hard forward line to fit into at the moment, however if his final is taken into account he may well be an early starter
44.Callum Wilkie – Wilks does what Wilks does. Always a polished performer.
Post – never beaten, never flustered. Beats me how he wasn’t picked up before 24 years of age.R1
45b.Liam O'Connell – nice size, needs some gym work. Works hard. Very early days for this Irish kid.
Post – full on development year. Doesn’t have a problem with the shape of the ball. I get him and Hastie mixed up, but suffice to say, that is a good thing, as Hastie has excellent skills. A year at Sandy
47.rAnthony Caminiti – Managed, has a couple of issues. Seems to have a bit more definition. Don’t know where the backman stuff has come from, all he has done is run laps.
Post – maybe some second year blues for Hammer, may be a Coops second year where he develops down back and crafts his game more at Sandy, with the occasional appearance.
Don’t take the above as gospel or my likely team, they may be 15 or 25 I have as R1, it is just observations and my opinion only.
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Re: Training Reports
Seb just named in the leadership group - again
Just a little bit more highly rated internally than by the supporters
At the end of his career
He will have
Played well over 200 games
Won 2 Trevor Barker awards
Runner Up in another
Captained the club
Made the AA squad
Not bad for a guy that most supporters have wanted out of the side for years
I’ve got news for you, the kids have got a fair way to go to push him out of the side!
Just a little bit more highly rated internally than by the supporters
At the end of his career
He will have
Played well over 200 games
Won 2 Trevor Barker awards
Runner Up in another
Captained the club
Made the AA squad
Not bad for a guy that most supporters have wanted out of the side for years
I’ve got news for you, the kids have got a fair way to go to push him out of the side!
- desertsaint
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Re: Training Reports
is he your son bm, the way you gush over him, and take offence to the naysayers?
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
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Re: Training Reports
Not only thouroughly deserving of his spot in the best 22 but can't see any of the new kids knocking him out for at least another 2 seasons.B.M wrote: ↑Tue 20 Feb 2024 8:22pm Seb just named in the leadership group - again
Just a little bit more highly rated internally than by the supporters
At the end of his career
He will have
Played well over 200 games
Won 2 Trevor Barker awards
Runner Up in another
Captained the club
Made the AA squad
Not bad for a guy that most supporters have wanted out of the side for years
I’ve got news for you, the kids have got a fair way to go to push him out of the side!
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Re: Training Reports
I don’t gush over him
I just point out how stupid some comments about Seb are
Back it up with facts
And watch Seb get 25+ most weeks and perform his role
If a young player had his output consistency- the supporters would be definitely gushing!!!!
I just point out how stupid some comments about Seb are
Back it up with facts
And watch Seb get 25+ most weeks and perform his role
If a young player had his output consistency- the supporters would be definitely gushing!!!!
- skeptic
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Re: Training Reports
He played 17 games last year and got above 25 touches 3 times and exactly 25 twice
I wouldn’t call that most weeks
He got less than 20 touches 8 times
You gush
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Re: Training Reports
Career average - 23.5ppg
Last year he got injured early in a game twice
One game 2 possessions
The other 7 possessions
Most weeks he performs- hence leadership group
Last year he got injured early in a game twice
One game 2 possessions
The other 7 possessions
Most weeks he performs- hence leadership group
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Re: Training Reports
We're those 25 or more games in the first half of the season by chance?
He was in career best form before getting injured which slowed him up a little but I don't think it's coincidence his purple patch coincide with the team's best patch of the season.
Steele going down also didn't help him as Sebby lost a bit of cover but I think he's still very important for this group until one of the kids can dislodge him which I think will be at least 2 seasons away.
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Re: Training Reports
Most were but generally Correct on all frontsVortex wrote: ↑Tue 20 Feb 2024 11:08pmWe're those 25 or more games in the first half of the season by chance?
He was in career best form before getting injured which slowed him up a little but I don't think it's coincidence his purple patch coincide with the team's best patch of the season.
Steele going down also didn't help him as Sebby lost a bit of cover but I think he's still very important for this group until one of the kids can dislodge him which I think will be at least 2 seasons away.
I was very big on Ross at the start of the season - he was as you say in fantastic form and we played well when he did. I remember marking him down as the barometer. He played well, we played well… his form dipped pre-injury so did ours.
The stats I posted were in response to to BM’s claim of a 25+ possession in most of his games. That certainly wasn’t true last season.
Personally, I’ve actually found his last few years to be the best of his career and have liked them more than his B&F seasons. Ross has been shockingly effective and really stood up in big games and moments.
The flip side to this… is that like many on the list, he needs to find a way to sustain the form. The step down from his is like a drop of a hill when it happens and this was pre-injury.
After his near BOG performance v Port around rd6 (27 disposals) - he cracked 20 possessions once in the 8 following games and had 2 returns of 12 touches and one of 14… not close to good enough for a player of his ilk.
Coincides with our lean patch
If we’re having this conversation… it must be had in its entirety… both the good and the bad. Ross is important and starts in the 22. Like everyone else he should be rated on performance doesn’t automatically get a pass and isn’t above scrutiny.
I have no doubt you wouldn’t suggest he does… but in my experience, you’re not one that watch him sit out a contest that he should have attacked, fail to follow his man in a critical play that costs us or turn the ball over with a stinker and give him a pass whilst criticising others for less
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Re: Training Reports
Since Ratten asked Seb to swim between his flags in 2020, 50 of his 73 matches have been below 25 possessions.
This is probably the reason he never Captained the club and the sacrifice for the benefit of the playing group makes him more of a leader than his out put.
He was up in the 30's for a few years prior but kick and hope Geary got the job..
Unfortunately he still bombs away with 50% efficiency from 19 possessions at 336 metres gained from last year's efforts.
This is probably the reason he never Captained the club and the sacrifice for the benefit of the playing group makes him more of a leader than his out put.
He was up in the 30's for a few years prior but kick and hope Geary got the job..
Unfortunately he still bombs away with 50% efficiency from 19 possessions at 336 metres gained from last year's efforts.
- Otiman
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Re: Training Reports
Seb's biggest bonus will be that we are focusing on run and spread that should skew his possessions more towards handball to a damaging ball user.
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Re: Training Reports
Most players ‘bomb away’
They train it
They get the ball in quick, long and deep from stoppage
Which ever way you roll it or dice it
Seb had had (and still having) a great career
People try and argue otherwise - but can’t explain how he has played 200 games and achieved what he has
They train it
They get the ball in quick, long and deep from stoppage
Which ever way you roll it or dice it
Seb had had (and still having) a great career
People try and argue otherwise - but can’t explain how he has played 200 games and achieved what he has
- The_Dud
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Re: Training Reports
I think Seb being in the leadership group is going to make it a bit awkward towards the end of the season when (hopefully) the younger guys keep coming on and pushing for spots.
I see a situation where that marks him 'undroppable' even though he is keeping better performers out of the team, similar to Geary towards the end of his career.
I see a situation where that marks him 'undroppable' even though he is keeping better performers out of the team, similar to Geary towards the end of his career.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
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Re: Training Reports
Instructions or statements?66Iwasthere wrote: ↑Sun 18 Feb 2024 6:59pm Very amusing to see Allison being very vocal on the field on Friday, pointing and yelling instructions to others. How in the hell can he do that when he’s got absolutely no game sense, is often out marked and loses his player running to a position where the ball isn’t. Been following him since day dot and sadly haven’t seen much improvement and sadly think he will be delisted.
WHAT THE f*** AM I DOING!
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Re: Training Reports
When all are fit, he's clearly behind Steele, Crouch, Jones and Sinclair for a starting mid spot.
He's fighting it out with Windy, Owens, Clark, Dow and Pou for a spot, and all of them have higher ceilings that him.
Plus the new kids who could pop up and surprise us.
Put it this way, if Seb is still ahead of most of that list by the end of the year, it means bad times at the Saints
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
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Re: Training Reports
Not behind jones
Sincs is playing HB
= with Crouch
Ahead of all the others you named
Sincs is playing HB
= with Crouch
Ahead of all the others you named
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Re: Training Reports
Pretty much every poster has wanted him out of the side for 3 years
Read this thread and any other that involves Seb
Outside of me and Saynta- he is ridiculously underrated
Never seen such a good player get bagged - in 40 years supporting the saints - he is the most underrated (by fans) player in my memory
Read this thread and any other that involves Seb
Outside of me and Saynta- he is ridiculously underrated
Never seen such a good player get bagged - in 40 years supporting the saints - he is the most underrated (by fans) player in my memory
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Re: Training Reports
You said people are trying to argue that he hasn’t had a great career.B.M wrote: ↑Wed 21 Feb 2024 12:27pm Pretty much every poster has wanted him out of the side for 3 years
Read this thread and any other that involves Seb
Outside of me and Saynta- he is ridiculously underrated
Never seen such a good player get bagged - in 40 years supporting the saints - he is the most underrated (by fans) player in my memory
I asked you who said that and now you’ve changed it to nearly every poster wants him out of the team.
Which is it?
Plenty of people have questioned his form at times or some of his efforts… I haven’t read many examples of people wanting him delisted.
Absolutely there have been a few but the majority easily had him in the team or at least on the list.
I think what you’re confusing here is the criticism of form/effort with a broader reflection of Seb’s career.
Given how overwhelming the response your suggesting is however… I’m sure you should be able to provide plenty of examples of what your talking about and that this isn’t another example of your seemingly endless condemnation of this forum.
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Re: Training Reports
A rubbish opinion but one you are entitled to have nevertheless.The_Dud wrote: ↑Wed 21 Feb 2024 9:36amWhen all are fit, he's clearly behind Steele, Crouch, Jones and Sinclair for a starting mid spot.
He's fighting it out with Windy, Owens, Clark, Dow and Pou for a spot, and all of them have higher ceilings that him.
Plus the new kids who could pop up and surprise us.
Put it this way, if Seb is still ahead of most of that list by the end of the year, it means bad times at the Saints
- meher baba
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Re: Training Reports
I’ve never bagged Seb either.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift