Bet the house on Ross

[magnifisaint]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bet ... 5f0nf.html

Unfortunately behind a paywall

[Otiman]

It's all Bassat, not Ross.

Ross might contribute some of the ideas but Bassat is behind the change. Make no mistake.

[Moods]

I’m comfortable with what the club’s doing. No point hedging your bets or half backing the coach

[skeptic]

Someone has posted it on FB

When St Kilda made the brutal call to jettison Brett Ratten and bring back Ross Lyon, they were hiring far more than a coach with a proven capacity to command a playing group and get immediate improvement.

Lyon’s first stint as St Kilda coach, especially the years of 2009 and 2010, represents a kind of Camelot for the Saints. The best players of that period – Nick Riewoldt, Lenny Hayes, Brendon Goddard, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, Robert Harvey (who’d retired in 2008) – can be seen as knights of the round table.

And they’re now knights at Ross’s table. While the grail eluded them and Lyon, those players carry enormous weight with the St Kilda faithful; if a club does not have a premiership era – and 1966 is too long ago to retain relevance – then the gallant knights who almost touched the cup become the benchmark and perhaps the guardians of the club.

Those players also have significant media profiles – Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Goddard and Montagna have been/are commentators with Fox Footy or radio – while Hayes and Harvey are bona fide legends.

So, when Lyon was brought back at the behest of president Andrew Bassat’s board, he did so with the backing of the knights and a round table duly was erected at Moorabbin. Simon Lethlean learned in 2023 that he didn’t have a seat at the table, certainly not where the business of football was concerned.

Lyon likes to say “let the cobblers cobble”, a variation on Mick Malthouse’s “let the bakers bake their bread,” which really means that the coach shouldn’t interfere with staff who have particular expertise in their field.

But the coach also must have faith in the cobblers. If he doesn’t trust what’s being produced – whether that’s the players recruited, the preparation of their fitness or the psychologist helping them think and run straight – there’s a chance that he’ll want his own cobblers, or at least cobblers he’s aligned with.

On Friday, after Nine’s Tom Morris broke the news that chief executive Lethlean was leaving, the reaction within the AFL ecosystem – from current and former officials from rival clubs and others within the industry – was that this was a victory for Lyon, in terms of consolidating power/control; that, as one senior official at a Victorian club put it, the Saints “bet the house on Ross”. Lyon’s enhanced power base and clout – and St Kilda’s judgment that their list isn’t up to contention-level yet – is in contrast to the situation of Luke Beveridge at the Bulldogs, who has seen a raft of changes made around him, and then a further review of the football program by Peter Jackson, the ex-Essendon and Melbourne CEO.

Beveridge, as this masthead reported, was overruled on the removal of assistant coach Rohan Smith late last year. His control of the football domain has eroded.

Bassat downplayed the notion that Lyon and Lethlean clashed, telling this column that the pair had tried to make their relationship work. But the president acknowledged that Lethlean had ended with less input into football and that he would have preferred “a role that was the original conception”.

The balance of power that led to Lethlean’s exit can be discerned simply by examining who’s been hired and who’s left before and after Ratten was replaced by Lyon.

In: Hayes, Goddard, Harvey (all in coaching crew). Stephen Silvagni, a close friend of Lyon’s, has a role as list manager. David Misson, initially brought in to oversee conditioning, is the new head of football and is another Lyon ally from the Camelot of 2008-11. Simon Dalrymple, ex-Swans and Dogs recruiting boss, has come in to work under Silvagni and his veteran ally, Graeme Allan.

Out: football manager/strategist David Rath (now at Essendon), list boss James Gallagher, recruiting manager Chris Toche, recruiter and ex-Hawk great Jarryd Roughead, psychologist Ben Robbins.

St Kilda had initially hired the highly experienced Geoff Walsh to head the football department, shortly before Ratten’s removal by Bassat, only for Walsh to walk away after four months for personal reasons. It is hard to say how Walsh would have navigated any Lyon/Lethlean discord – certainly he and Lyon established a rapport – but the upshot is that Misson is more wedded to the coach, who technically reports to Misson, but realpolitik says is answerable only to Bassat and the board.

Carl Dilena, the acting chief executive and ex-Kangaroos CEO, is well regarded by Bassat and favourite to land the CEO job. It is hard to imagine that Dilena will be much involved in Lyon’s domain – Bassat, indeed, suggested that the next CEO would be less football-focused than Lethlean had been.

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From outside, this has the appearance of a slow-motion coup d’etat.

But really the driver of this takeover is Bassat, rather than Lyon himself. The board – whose football director is Jason Blake, another knight of 2009-10 – has handed the keys to the coach.

Bassat said of the Lethlean exit: “Ross had no agency in this decision at all. It was a conversation between the board and Simon. So it [Lethlean and Lyon’s relationship] wasn’t perfect but it was fine.” Bassat, in effect, has considered the Lethlean vision of St Kilda’s football operation and Lyon’s version and chosen to back the latter.

It is unclear who will stand in Lyon’s way on football matters if there’s a disagreement or an overreach. As it stands, due to the overlapping relationships and history, he arguably has more power within his club than any other current coach, John Longmire possibly excepted.

But the question of whether Lyon and the knights land the grail will hinge more on the quality of players that Dalrymple and Silvagni find than on how the coach marshals the Saints in his second coming.

[spert]

Interesting article, but I still consider Lyon has had his chances and I'm not keen on trying to re-live the past as Bassat seemed to do by pushing through Lyon's appointment. I hope every Saints coach has success, but I have my doubts about the ultimate prize coming our way under Lyon.

[The Fireman]

I personally have a lot more confidence now that we have RTB

I reckon he told the board he wanted lethers gone. What Ross wants Ross gets

This is his third stint. He wants success at all costs and so do I

Fanboy

[Sanctorum]

Interesting article, but I still consider Lyon has had his chances and I'm not keen on trying to re-live the past as Bassat seemed to do by pushing through Lyon's appointment. I hope every Saints coach has success, but I have my doubts about the ultimate prize coming our way under Lyon.

There will be quite a few supporters on this forum who will agree with you spert.

But I wonder who, of all the experienced coaches looking for another gig, other than Ross Lyon, would have fitted the bill when Andrew Bassat and the Board had considered the post season 2022 review and decided that Brett Ratten was not the man to take the club forward on the road to another premiership??

One of those who would have backed Ross Lyon at the time was the highly credentialled and respected football manager, Geoff Walsh, who knows the type of coach required to achieve what the Bassat and the Board were after.

I was interested to read that Jake Niall considers John Longmire to be the only other current coach to have full control of football operations at his club, and we all know how well that has worked out and continues to do so....

I've read that Longmire lost out to Lyon for the St Kilda job after Grant Thomas was fired.

It's far too early to know if this strategy will meet Bassat's expectations, but so far it certainly has, and we have every reason to believe that in 2024 St Kilda will progress up the ladder and get closer to contend for the flag.

There's an unmistakeable air of excitement at our footy club now which has been acknowledged by increases in membership, corporate sponsorships and media profile.

Either way, I for one am mighty glad that Bassat had the balls to go out on a limb and change direction away from languishing in the middle of the pack and go for broke.

[cwrcyn]

Could we glean from the article that Lethlean couldn't keep his nose out of football matters? It seems that way. It may have been hard for him to let go of the influence he once had on the football department. Bassat once again has not shied away from making the hard call.

Anyway, the decks have now been cleared from the Ratten era. Enright, whom I suspect of making a rather glum assessment of standards within the football department during Ratten's tenure, is very well regarded by Lyon, and is the prime survivor.

No more excuses now.

[Yorkeys]

Every coach appointment is an all in bet. It has to be.
We have left the games with empty pockets when our champions in the jousts were Sir Silly Watters, Sir Serious Alan and Sir Sensitive Brett.

It is common for successful and in demand coaches in professional sports to bring their team of coaches, administrators and technicians: the shock/disappointment for the rest of the footy world and some Saints fans is we are behaving professionally, had a winning season and did not cave in pressure games as was our won't.

I like the Holy Grail analogy, but am not sure who is to be our Killer Bunny, maybe Owens, maybe the Hammer, maybe someone we haven't recognised as a champion of the oppressed St Kilda tribe.

Also sounds like Simon did a version of back me to oversee the footy or else and the board replied "else" away. Cheers.

[Vortex]

Interesting article, but I still consider Lyon has had his chances and I'm not keen on trying to re-live the past as Bassat seemed to do by pushing through Lyon's appointment. I hope every Saints coach has success, but I have my doubts about the ultimate prize coming our way under Lyon.

If Lyon fails as usual it wont be all be on the coach, currently that is Lyon.

I am of the firm belief that our biggest impediment to becoming a force in the AFL is deeply rooted in our 150 year history.

We have an uncanny knack of tripping over our own feet just when we start to get on a roll.

Lyon can turn us into a force, but the club has to perform around him in a way that is completely opposite to the way it has performed over the past 150 years.

[Killa]

The Clubs assessment that the List is not up to contention level

This is correct - we need more work bringing class players in and trusting in the development of youth

This was Rattan’s assessment when called in by the President and asked to audition for his (then) job

The President and the Board agreed the assessment, that improvement had been made and the further progress was required - under a different Coach, one who was well regarded by St Kilda Royalty with Riewoldt prime

Remember that Hayes had been appointed prior to Rattan being dismissed

And Harvey had run his race at Hawthorn who were looking elsewhere

Enright was already on board

The article contains “click bait” assumptions looking for an audience - it is Murdoch after all - although there are elements of fact such as the internal assessment of the List but is only assumed follow on from the comments of the President which are explanations given media coverage

Can the profile of Lyon, the Football Department and the Administration bring the required high profile Free Agents thru the door?

And otherwise develop out junior talent?

Because the recognition of where the List is at IS fact and the view of the Board

[Sanctorum]

The Clubs assessment that the List is not up to contention level

This is correct - we need more work bringing class players in and trusting in the development of youth

This was Rattan’s assessment when called in by the President and asked to audition for his (then) job

The President and the Board agreed the assessment, that improvement had been made and the further progress was required - under a different Coach, one who was well regarded by St Kilda Royalty with Riewoldt prime

Remember that Hayes had been appointed prior to Rattan being dismissed

And Harvey had run his race at Hawthorn who were looking elsewhere

Enright was already on board

The article contains “click bait” assumptions looking for an audience - it is Murdoch after all - although there are elements of fact such as the internal assessment of the List but is only assumed follow on from the comments of the President which are explanations given media coverage

Can the profile of Lyon, the Football Department and the Administration bring the required high profile Free Agents thru the door?

And otherwise develop out junior talent?

Because the recognition of where the List is at IS fact and the view of the Board

Not so Killa, Jake Niall writes for Fairfax Media, publishers of The Age.

[Otiman]

My read of the tea leaves is this:

- Lethlean tried to use his authority to make football decisions over Ross.
- Ross flipped his s*** and got authority over Lethlean on football matters. (This is the real story, as reported last year).
- Lethlean struggled to get to grips with what a CEO actually does, because he was so ingrained in the footy side.
- without a pole to hitch to, Lethlean took the pay cheque and did very little.
- The board saw this and gave him an ultimatum to shape up or ship out
- Not wanting (or not capable) to put in the work demanded of a CEO, Lethlean decided to quit as graciously as possible.
- Not wanting his reputation tarnished, Lethlean used his AFL and media contacts to drum up the "ross on a power bender" story.


For what it's worth I don't think Ross had much to do with it since kicking him out of the decision making on football matters last year. Of course he could have done more to make the relationship tenable over time, but I don't expect anything new happened.

[magnifisaint]

That's an interesting comment. Seems like the press have found something to stick their boots into. Now Ross has too much power. I wonder if the same could be said of other successful coaches?

[Yorkeys]

Meanwhile another Collingwood player involved in a car accident, Melbourne's Oliver missing in action, North's Thomas to front the integrity squad for another umpteenth final warning, counselling and training in how adults are supposed to behave, Ports coaching situation causing board fights, Beverage hanging on to his job by a thread, Hardwick under the radar at Suns, Fagin given a hall pass on losing the GF, McRea too deified to discuss in a conversation about coaches influences and both WA sides coaches looking wobbly, one more than the other. This has got to be an orchestrated hit job on Ross and by extension our Club. Maybe Ross said something close to the bone about Cornes the player - or Cornes the shock jock.

[Life Long Saint]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/too-sc ... eZu3nLlf04
Kornes is a Muppet of the highest order.
Would he have ever questioned Eddie McGuire's influence as president of Collingwood? Doubt it.
Basset is doing the same thing at our club, but without being an overt boofhead.

Significant change needed to happen, and now that it's happening with good people being put in senior positions, all the media dickheads want to do is knock it.

[magnifisaint]

Kane is the Corn Dog for a reason. I think he's Port Adelaide's stooge. He's there to deflect attention away from them.

[shanegrambeau]

Hands up who could see a shade of pink in the water, (Richo’s blood) when Ratts was appointed assistant as Richo’s assistant?

I’m sure Richo could, and Ratts could too.

As for Cornes

It was sharp

To say that it “might work (The Ross Rule) , but it won’t last. It’ll be a brief thing” because it’s a one man and his cult type thing.

I have no idea if it has merit, but in saying that the autocratic ruler thing, with no challenger will have one shot at it, does kinda sound plausible.

He’s getting the cheap shots in when he can, retreating when he has too, and then swinging the bat again.

[Killa]

The CEO of any organization is precisely that - with all facets of the Club reporting to him/her and him/her reporting to the Board.

The Board will hold the CEO responsible.

There are those CEO's who ALSO sit on the Board, so a Managing Director.

In an AFL Club, the CEO is NOT the Coach but reports to the Board on the performance and the outcomes the Coach is responsible for.

Dilena, formerly from Sturt in the SANFL is the acting CEO (and there is speculation he may assume the CEO position).

And in response to where the article appeared, you can throw a blanket over Costello, Stokes and Murdoch for mine.

My only knowledge of the article is from this site.

[SaintWiki]

That's an interesting comment. Seems like the press have found something to stick their boots into. Now Ross has too much power. I wonder if the same could be said of other successful coaches?

Let the media stick their boots in, it's probably going to take a few generations to end it, and that's if we are sustainably successful. Most of the media stooges are leaving us out of the top 8 like they did last year. Duane Russell did today on SEN and put the doggies in - I really like being left off their radar at this time of the year.

[samuraisaint]

This ride might bring us a premiership, or it might not. But I think we are a far greater chance of giving it a shake with RTB in charge. We will at least go close. Of that, I am sure.

[samuraisaint]

Hands up who could see a shade of pink in the water, (Richo’s blood) when Ratts was appointed assistant as Richo’s assistant?

I’m sure Richo could, and Ratts could too.

As for Cornes

It was sharp

To say that it “might work (The Ross Rule) , but it won’t last. It’ll be a brief thing” because it’s a one man and his cult type thing.

I have no idea if it has merit, but in saying that the autocratic ruler thing, with no challenger will have one shot at it, does kinda sound plausible.

He’s getting the cheap shots in when he can, retreating when he has too, and then swinging the bat again.

Port Adelaide have had our measure for over a decade. Fact. That's why he doesn't rate us at all. That's okay, we need to start to beat Port and Adelaide and Brisbane if we are to make finals again this season anyway.

[B.M]

Never a smart idea to bet the house on any individual

A successful organisation needs leadership

From the Board, The executive and the footy dept (which includes coaching, medical, conditioning)

President, CEO, footy manager, Senior Coach, head of High performance

They are the pillars of a successful club - not 1 dictator

[samuraisaint]

That's an interesting comment. Seems like the press have found something to stick their boots into. Now Ross has too much power. I wonder if the same could be said of other successful coaches?

Let the media stick their boots in, it's probably going to take a few generations to end it, and that's if we are sustainably successful. Most of the media stooges are leaving us out of the top 8 like they did last year. Duane Russell did today on SEN and put the doggies in - I really like being left off their radar at this time of the year.

See my comment re: Cornes. Our record against Port is disgraceful. We need to start beating sides that finish above us to be taken seriously.

[Bowey Boy]

And we are in the news. Nobody gave a stuff about us under the previous few coaches.