Nicky Winmar Autobiography

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skeptic
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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040823Post skeptic »

shanegrambeau wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 9:57pm Calm down …

stop pretending anyone really believes Collingwood supporters wanted to hang Nicky under a tree?

If you are serious about racism…just stop it.

F,,,,nonsense

You righteous band of Nazis

Pat yourselves on the back for your disgust
No one’s suggesting that Collingwood supporters really wanted to hang him up…
It’s the idea that this passed as acceptable behaviour.

I know that certainly lines weren’t as clear then but a lot of people actually never needed to be told that this type of behaviour is not ok.
Even if the racial stuff is fair on love and war… stuff like saying they would sexually assault his mother. That’s just beyond decency… I mean who says that?

And I’ll point out that the threats were enough that Winmar, his wife and kids didn’t feel safe to go home and people actually went to their house to deliver hateful letters.
As in after the game, they sat down, took the time to write a letter, then took the time to drive over there and deliver it on his mail box.

Am disappointed that you’ve interpreted my post (as I’ve interpreted yours) as virtue signalling. I read that particular chapter last night and I just found it really upsetting that that was the extent of what Winmar had to go through back then.
All I could do then was post about it


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040830Post shanegrambeau »

skeptic wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 10:32pm
shanegrambeau wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 9:57pm Calm down …

stop pretending anyone really believes Collingwood supporters wanted to hang Nicky under a tree?

If you are serious about racism…just stop it.

F,,,,nonsense

You righteous band of Nazis

Pat yourselves on the back for your disgust
No one’s suggesting that Collingwood supporters really wanted to hang him up…
It’s the idea that this passed as acceptable behaviour.

I know that certainly lines weren’t as clear then but a lot of people actually never needed to be told that this type of behaviour is not ok.
Even if the racial stuff is fair on love and war… stuff like saying they would sexually assault his mother. That’s just beyond decency… I mean who says that?

And I’ll point out that the threats were enough that Winmar, his wife and kids didn’t feel safe to go home and people actually went to their house to deliver hateful letters.
As in after the game, they sat down, took the time to write a letter, then took the time to drive over there and deliver it on his mail box.

Am disappointed that you’ve interpreted my post (as I’ve interpreted yours) as virtue signalling. I read that particular chapter last night and I just found it really upsetting that that was the extent of what Winmar had to go through back then.
All I could do then was post about it
1) It didn't pass as acceptable behavior*, even then...and they knew it, even then, that they were acting out ..they knew it was unacceptable.and they bonding over it..
2) It was seized upon, and white guiltx media got it by the shirt collar and waved it around for a buck. For bogan footy lot is sensitive to onlookers judging them - it's news
3) We all have love and hurt in our hearts, and shame and guilt, even though the beast that is our lizard brain knows where the bread is buttered

Bringing up the family and virtue signalling?

Well, there is no virtue is my point. There is no flag to wave.


*in the world that was then, as it was, and in some sense still is


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040831Post CQ SAINT »

I'm old enough and black enough to remember being called a coon my whole junior career. 80 - 85.

I remember the violence that erupted one day, when my Anglo dad headed towards a car and spoke to one particular bloke who drove his car from end to end of our game to put me off with racists slurs before half time.

I kicked 4 goals in the first and laid a kid flat with a hip and shoulder and the charming people of Noble Park let me have it at the far end of the ground. This was not an isolated event but rarely were these events paid much attention. We were a family club and we stuck together.

This idiot drove his car to our end of the ground and started abusing me constantly, with his wife and kids in the back of the car. He even did it when the ball was at the other end. The goal umpire told me not to worry and just play

A friend's mum, a short Italian woman, went over to say something and he told her to go away in no uncertain terms and added in a few derogratory racial remarks to top it off.

My dad, a fair haired, very tall, heavy set white man of Scottish and German descent took the opportunity to make his mark and quietly went over and told the bloke to turn it down a bit or he would have to leave.

As my dad turned and walked off this person started his car and shouted something like 'f*** off you like nigger loving, wog f****** scumbag c***'

Mr Lia, another wog, who just happened to be a police man and at the game in his Divi Van blocked the exit and flagged him down, next thing the man was abusing him and making all sorts of threats.

Then this bloke was getting dragged out his car and flogged. The whole game had stopped to watch.

His four sons and two daughters and particularly his wife looked on, with a rye smile, as Mr Lia locked him up in the van for d&d an took it relatively easy on him.

His wife said great, he won't let me have a license, what are we supposed to do now.

The little wog lady drove her home later, her kids stayed with other people and went home with them.

At the end of the game when Mr Lia and dad addressed the teams after the game.
Mr Lia said these words, ignorance is no excuse for bad manners.

Shane, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen done to Aboriginal people in full view of the public by policeman and prison guards in Central Quuensland in this century, let alone a rowdy bunch of ignorant bogans at Victoria Park back in the 80's.

Me and dad had to walk about half a kilometre to our car the day Nicky exposed his belly. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever personally experienced.

Nothing happened but it made me feel sick and insecure for soem time becuase ofthe color of my skin and I began to question everything about myself and where I fitted in.
My dad cried when he tried to console me.

Hatred is far more contemptuous than petty racism. I've heard Lyon referred to as toxic, fair dinkum, talk about a woke joke.

I finished the day with 11goals and we won by about 20. They failed to score.

We were a ragtag bunch of working class misfits and migrants but we all bonded that day and 4 of us were playing seniors and reserves by Under 15's, then the real violent hatred started. I reflect on my career miserably now just because I love the game so much but I got a real taste for battle on field. Play on.

The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040833Post shanegrambeau »

CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I
The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
Thank you

I walk upon the red carpet

bow

and say..

sig Heil!

(Is that how you say it?)

These conversations have echoed through our entire lives.

Are we smarter?

I think so—glacial progress.
Steady as she goes.

Let us blame somebody.

Shall we?

That would be convenient.

How about a 13-year-old girl in a Sydney jumper?

Let us look around the room.

Who? Can we blame?

So most of the population crosses the road, and chooses not to discuss racism. For why should they? What would be gained? What can be lost = everything. Seriously, everything. Cancelled.

Enough said?

No...

We have a target!

Thank God for that.


You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040834Post Scollop »

shanegrambeau wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 12:22am
CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I
The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
Thank you

I walk upon the red carpet

bow

and say..

sig Heil!

(Is that how you say it?)

These conversations have echoed through our entire lives.

Are we smarter?

I think so—glacial progress.
Steady as she goes.

Let us blame somebody.

Shall we?

That would be convenient.

How about a 13-year-old girl in a Sydney jumper?

Let us look around the room.

Who? Can we blame?

So most of the population crosses the road, and chooses not to discuss racism. For why should they? What would be gained? What can be lost = everything. Seriously, everything. Cancelled.

Enough said?

No...

We have a target!

Thank God for that.
Enough said? From you...too much said ... again!

Maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe I'm confused with the content by you. Is this your way of using defense mechanisms to excuse the mainstream racists?

You're like that guy in the Monty Python movie who gets his limbs chopped off and he just keeps babbling and trying to argue.

Just shut up man!!

Every time this topic of racism is discussed here or in the General Forum there's this sort of shame expressed by you...but then ... sometimes...it doesn't seem genuine... to me anyway

You constantly try (unsuccessfully mind you) to explain and justify certain behaviours, rather than just accept that racist attitudes exist in society in more households than just the extremists Nazi views.

When someone mentions racism, you seem to take it personally, as if it's an attack on all Australians. It's not.

When are you going to understand some of your brethren here in Australia and accept the reality of Australia's history of racism?
Last edited by Scollop on Fri 26 Jan 2024 1:09am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040835Post CQ SAINT »

Out here nothin' changes
Not in a hurry anyway
You can feel the endlessness
With the comin' of the light of day
You're talkin' 'bout a chosen place
You wanna sell it in a marketplace, well
Well, just a minute now

You're standin' on solid rock
Standin' on sacred ground
Livin' on borrowed time
And the winds of change
Are blowin' down the line
Right down the line

Well, round about the dawn of time
The dreamin' all began
A crowd of people came
Well, they were lookin' for their promised land
We're runnin' from the heart of darkness
Searchin' for the heart of light
With their paradise

Well, they were standin' on solid rock
Standin' on sacred ground
Livin' on borrowed time
And the winds of change
Were blowin' cold that night, oh

Well, they were standin' on the shore one day
Saw the white sails in the sun
Wasn't long before they felt the sting
White man, white law, white gun
Don't tell me that it's justified
'Cause somewhere, someone lied
Yeah, well someone lied
Someone lied
Genocide
Well, someone lied

And now you're standin' on solid rock
Standin' on sacred ground
Livin' on borrowed time
And the winds of change
Are blowin' down the line
Solid rock
Standin' on sacred ground
Livin' on borrowed time
And the winds of change
Are blowin' down the line
Solid rock
Standin' on sacred ground
Livin' on borrowed time
And the winds of change
Are blowin' down the line
No!

Happy Australia day.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040836Post Scollop »

https://www.verywellmind.com/the-psycho ... sm-5070459

And here's a clip of one of my favourite songs of all time from my favourite Aussie band of all time



https://www.lyrics.com/lyric-lf/728858/ ... Dead+Heart


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040837Post shanegrambeau »

Scollop wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 12:56am
shanegrambeau wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 12:22am
CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I
The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
Thank you

I walk upon the red carpet

bow

and say..

sig Heil!

(Is that how you say it?)

These conversations have echoed through our entire lives.

Are we smarter?

I think so—glacial progress.
Steady as she goes.

Let us blame somebody.

Shall we?

That would be convenient.

How about a 13-year-old girl in a Sydney jumper?

Let us look around the room.

Who? Can we blame?

So most of the population crosses the road, and chooses not to discuss racism. For why should they? What would be gained? What can be lost = everything. Seriously, everything. Cancelled.

Enough said?

No...

We have a target!

Thank God for that.
Enough said? From you...too much said ... again!

Maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe I'm confused with the content by you. Is this your way of using defense mechanisms to excuse the mainstream racists?

You're like that guy in the Monty Python movie who gets his limbs chopped off and he just keeps babbling and trying to argue.

Just shut up man!!

Every time this topic of racism is discussed here or in the General Forum there's this sort of shame expressed by you...but then ... sometimes...it doesn't seem genuine... to me anyway

You constantly try (unsuccessfully mind you) to explain and justify certain behaviours, rather than just accept that racist attitudes exist in society in more households than just the extremists Nazi views.

When someone mentions racism, you seem to take it personally, as if it's an attack on all Australians. It's not.

When are you going to understand some of your brethren here in Australia and accept the reality of Australia's history of racism?
I can't justify it.
I can't explain it.
Cheap shot...I don't think a single Saint doesn't think that Australia isn't a stolen land. Not one.
And I think that very few Saints will wanna talk about that. So let's bash me, why not?
I posted Kim Beasley's Dad's plea to the Australian Parliament in 1961 on this forum. (Check it out) - seems @people wanna credential themselves.
Nicky Winmar, my favorite Saint, also I have posted this long ago.....
I have opened up conversations about racism and mental health regularly here.
Frequently condescended to I might add.
I like to describe behaviors.

But I agree.
When are you going to understand....

Good point..

Except a different question..


You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040838Post CQ SAINT »

Intergenerational trauma is colour blind.

Need I say, this land was conquered by convict slaves, for as little as a slice of bread.

The Denisovan were a welcome invader 6 -10 thousands years ago.

Advance Australia Fair.

Let's give them all a fair go, as long as the act like human beings.

We are one, but we are many.

Fair well to old england for ever.

They chained us two by two and whipped and lashed along
They cut off our provisions if we did the least thing wrong
They march us in the burning sun until our feet are sore
So hard's our lot now we are got to Van Diemen's shore

— "The Female Transport"

She'll be right mate.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040854Post saynta »

shanegrambeau wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 9:57pm Calm down …

stop pretending anyone really believes Collingwood supporters wanted to hang Nicky under a tree?

If you are serious about racism…just stop it.

F,,,,nonsense

You righteous band of Nazis

Pat yourselves on the back for your disgust
What a disgraceful post.

Anyway. I don't believe it was nonsense.

Those filthy See you next tuesdays were capable of anything that day.

Here's a suggestion. Read the book before making dopey comments.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040856Post saynta »

CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I'm old enough and black enough to remember being called a coon my whole junior career. 80 - 85.

I remember the violence that erupted one day, when my Anglo dad headed towards a car and spoke to one particular bloke who drove his car from end to end of our game to put me off with racists slurs before half time.

I kicked 4 goals in the first and laid a kid flat with a hip and shoulder and the charming people of Noble Park let me have it at the far end of the ground. This was not an isolated event but rarely were these events paid much attention. We were a family club and we stuck together.

This idiot drove his car to our end of the ground and started abusing me constantly, with his wife and kids in the back of the car. He even did it when the ball was at the other end. The goal umpire told me not to worry and just play

A friend's mum, a short Italian woman, went over to say something and he told her to go away in no uncertain terms and added in a few derogratory racial remarks to top it off.

My dad, a fair haired, very tall, heavy set white man of Scottish and German descent took the opportunity to make his mark and quietly went over and told the bloke to turn it down a bit or he would have to leave.

As my dad turned and walked off this person started his car and shouted something like 'f*** off you like nigger loving, wog f****** scumbag c***'

Mr Lia, another wog, who just happened to be a police man and at the game in his Divi Van blocked the exit and flagged him down, next thing the man was abusing him and making all sorts of threats.

Then this bloke was getting dragged out his car and flogged. The whole game had stopped to watch.

His four sons and two daughters and particularly his wife looked on, with a rye smile, as Mr Lia locked him up in the van for d&d an took it relatively easy on him.

His wife said great, he won't let me have a license, what are we supposed to do now.

The little wog lady drove her home later, her kids stayed with other people and went home with them.

At the end of the game when Mr Lia and dad addressed the teams after the game.
Mr Lia said these words, ignorance is no excuse for bad manners.

Shane, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen done to Aboriginal people in full view of the public by policeman and prison guards in Central Quuensland in this century, let alone a rowdy bunch of ignorant bogans at Victoria Park back in the 80's.

Me and dad had to walk about half a kilometre to our car the day Nicky exposed his belly. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever personally experienced.

Nothing happened but it made me feel sick and insecure for soem time becuase ofthe color of my skin and I began to question everything about myself and where I fitted in.
My dad cried when he tried to console me.

Hatred is far more contemptuous than petty racism. I've heard Lyon referred to as toxic, fair dinkum, talk about a woke joke.

I finished the day with 11goals and we won by about 20. They failed to score.

We were a ragtag bunch of working class misfits and migrants but we all bonded that day and 4 of us were playing seniors and reserves by Under 15's, then the real violent hatred started. I reflect on my career miserably now just because I love the game so much but I got a real taste for battle on field. Play on.

The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
I am truly sorry that you had to endure that.

Seems some things out Noble Park way have never changed'. A. thug knocked me out there in an under 19's match in 1962.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040857Post CQ SAINT »

saynta wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 12:54pm
CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I'm old enough and black enough to remember being called a coon my whole junior career. 80 - 85.

I remember the violence that erupted one day, when my Anglo dad headed towards a car and spoke to one particular bloke who drove his car from end to end of our game to put me off with racists slurs before half time.

I kicked 4 goals in the first and laid a kid flat with a hip and shoulder and the charming people of Noble Park let me have it at the far end of the ground. This was not an isolated event but rarely were these events paid much attention. We were a family club and we stuck together.

This idiot drove his car to our end of the ground and started abusing me constantly, with his wife and kids in the back of the car. He even did it when the ball was at the other end. The goal umpire told me not to worry and just play

A friend's mum, a short Italian woman, went over to say something and he told her to go away in no uncertain terms and added in a few derogratory racial remarks to top it off.

My dad, a fair haired, very tall, heavy set white man of Scottish and German descent took the opportunity to make his mark and quietly went over and told the bloke to turn it down a bit or he would have to leave.

As my dad turned and walked off this person started his car and shouted something like 'f*** off you like nigger loving, wog f****** scumbag c***'

Mr Lia, another wog, who just happened to be a police man and at the game in his Divi Van blocked the exit and flagged him down, next thing the man was abusing him and making all sorts of threats.

Then this bloke was getting dragged out his car and flogged. The whole game had stopped to watch.

His four sons and two daughters and particularly his wife looked on, with a rye smile, as Mr Lia locked him up in the van for d&d an took it relatively easy on him.

His wife said great, he won't let me have a license, what are we supposed to do now.

The little wog lady drove her home later, her kids stayed with other people and went home with them.

At the end of the game when Mr Lia and dad addressed the teams after the game.
Mr Lia said these words, ignorance is no excuse for bad manners.

Shane, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen done to Aboriginal people in full view of the public by policeman and prison guards in Central Quuensland in this century, let alone a rowdy bunch of ignorant bogans at Victoria Park back in the 80's.

Me and dad had to walk about half a kilometre to our car the day Nicky exposed his belly. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever personally experienced.

Nothing happened but it made me feel sick and insecure for soem time becuase ofthe color of my skin and I began to question everything about myself and where I fitted in.
My dad cried when he tried to console me.

Hatred is far more contemptuous than petty racism. I've heard Lyon referred to as toxic, fair dinkum, talk about a woke joke.

I finished the day with 11goals and we won by about 20. They failed to score.

We were a ragtag bunch of working class misfits and migrants but we all bonded that day and 4 of us were playing seniors and reserves by Under 15's, then the real violent hatred started. I reflect on my career miserably now just because I love the game so much but I got a real taste for battle on field. Play on.

The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
I am truly sorry that you had to endure that.

Seems some things out Noble Park way have never changed'. A. thug knocked me out there in an under 19's match in 1962.
Thank you Saynta. I appreciate the sincerity in your message. It was just a silly, angry man. Those times were hard for the working class men who were losing their grip on the Australian dream.

I disappointed a lot of people with my response on field. I truly regret that in the name of sportsmanship but I'd rather not be a victim and I've learned that winning isn't everything. Tough times and tough lessons and most of us went through them for one reason or another.


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Re: Nicky Winmar Autobiography

Post: # 2040859Post saynta »

CQ SAINT wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 1:05pm
saynta wrote: Fri 26 Jan 2024 12:54pm
CQ SAINT wrote: Thu 25 Jan 2024 11:59pm I'm old enough and black enough to remember being called a coon my whole junior career. 80 - 85.

I remember the violence that erupted one day, when my Anglo dad headed towards a car and spoke to one particular bloke who drove his car from end to end of our game to put me off with racists slurs before half time.

I kicked 4 goals in the first and laid a kid flat with a hip and shoulder and the charming people of Noble Park let me have it at the far end of the ground. This was not an isolated event but rarely were these events paid much attention. We were a family club and we stuck together.

This idiot drove his car to our end of the ground and started abusing me constantly, with his wife and kids in the back of the car. He even did it when the ball was at the other end. The goal umpire told me not to worry and just play

A friend's mum, a short Italian woman, went over to say something and he told her to go away in no uncertain terms and added in a few derogratory racial remarks to top it off.

My dad, a fair haired, very tall, heavy set white man of Scottish and German descent took the opportunity to make his mark and quietly went over and told the bloke to turn it down a bit or he would have to leave.

As my dad turned and walked off this person started his car and shouted something like 'f*** off you like nigger loving, wog f****** scumbag c***'

Mr Lia, another wog, who just happened to be a police man and at the game in his Divi Van blocked the exit and flagged him down, next thing the man was abusing him and making all sorts of threats.

Then this bloke was getting dragged out his car and flogged. The whole game had stopped to watch.

His four sons and two daughters and particularly his wife looked on, with a rye smile, as Mr Lia locked him up in the van for d&d an took it relatively easy on him.

His wife said great, he won't let me have a license, what are we supposed to do now.

The little wog lady drove her home later, her kids stayed with other people and went home with them.

At the end of the game when Mr Lia and dad addressed the teams after the game.
Mr Lia said these words, ignorance is no excuse for bad manners.

Shane, you'd be surprised at the things I've seen done to Aboriginal people in full view of the public by policeman and prison guards in Central Quuensland in this century, let alone a rowdy bunch of ignorant bogans at Victoria Park back in the 80's.

Me and dad had to walk about half a kilometre to our car the day Nicky exposed his belly. It was one of the most frightening things I've ever personally experienced.

Nothing happened but it made me feel sick and insecure for soem time becuase ofthe color of my skin and I began to question everything about myself and where I fitted in.
My dad cried when he tried to console me.

Hatred is far more contemptuous than petty racism. I've heard Lyon referred to as toxic, fair dinkum, talk about a woke joke.

I finished the day with 11goals and we won by about 20. They failed to score.

We were a ragtag bunch of working class misfits and migrants but we all bonded that day and 4 of us were playing seniors and reserves by Under 15's, then the real violent hatred started. I reflect on my career miserably now just because I love the game so much but I got a real taste for battle on field. Play on.

The Nazi reference was particularly ignorant. Welcome to the mob.
I am truly sorry that you had to endure that.

Seems some things out Noble Park way have never changed'. A. thug knocked me out there in an under 19's match in 1962.
Thank you Saynta. I appreciate the sincerity in your message. It was just a silly, angry man. Those times were hard for the working class men who were losing their grip on the Australian dream.

I disappointed a lot of people with my response on field. I truly regret that in the name of sportsmanship but I'd rather not be a victim and I've learned that winning isn't everything. Tough times and tough lessons and most of us went through them for one reason or another.
Maybe so, but we can do without ignorant posts from ignorant people who seem to think that they are smarter than the rest of us.


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