Will Keeler be the real deal??

[NickyDal]

I honestly believe he will be as good as Ryder. He has all the tools, it's just whether he has the dedication to be the best he can be.

Time will tell....

[B.M]

Somewhere between Paddy Ryder and Spencer White

Fact is though

Ryder was a #7 draft pick at Essendon and was a potential star as a junior

Keeler is more speculative

Has a high ceiling but may not reach it.

[CQ SAINT]

Keeler left Port Augusta after year 10 because was an outstanding athlete who was identified at under 13 level and taken into Adelaide's Indigenous Academy and locked away for 5 years. An all round sport and he excelled in Cricket, Basketball and Football.

This happened in 2021.

Foxfooty.com.au player comparison: Paddy Ryder

Champion Data says: Keeler rated elite among all forwards for marks and forward 50 marks across the SANFL U18’s last season. He also rated above average for disposals, goals and score involvements.

Foxfooty.com.au says: Recruiters see big upside in Keeler, who’s regarded as one of the most talented players in the draft class. Keeler showed off his ability as a key forward in last year’s SANFL Under 18s competition but has the capability to become a damaging ruckman too. He’s tied to Adelaide’s Next Generation Academy, but because the Crows appear unlikely to get him as they can’t match a bid on Keeler until at least Pick 40 under recently-introduced academy bidding rules. If it clicks for him during his 2022 draft year, he could be taken within the first few selections

Compared to Paddy.,
made the state team
dominated as a forward
elite and above average stats across the board.

Then this happened at his home club

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/ ... /100409440

In year 12, Keeler left his boarding school scholarship and moved to Henley High, where Phillipou was, joining their elite program, snubbing the Crows Academy.

His dad was a country football legend winning consecutive best abd fairest as a CHB, who regular ran down the field kicking goals and pin pointing forwards with his prodigious long kicking on both feet and rebounded with ease because of his superior leap and marking. He was named best footballer in the subcontinental league twice but didn't leave Port Augusta to play SANFL.

After an elite U/18 season and after snubbing the scholarship and the Crows Academy the dialogue at North changed and all of a sudden an elite forward was challenged to ruck and was called soft and too easily pushed out of the way.

He went from match winner and best in his class to a kid who needed to pull his finger out. Sounds like he didn't want to play with Tex and was clearly earmarked to replace him, while dominating in the under 17's but they had no chance of getting him early in the draft and he was being ranked top 3, not just top 10.

This is from his top age year after dominating the year before. All of a sudden, at the start of the year he had an attitude problem. His development was sabotaged and what you won't hear is he was taunted racially because of his decisions and was described as too easily pushed out of the way and not physical enough and not having enough stamina. He was also not a great contested mark apparently after elite stats as a forward the year before, they were saying he wasn't any good if he didn't get room to leap. I think we have Al seen the videos.

Pffft. FFS. Keeler actually wanted to ruck not sit at FF being pushed around and taunted.

this is what the Crow bum kissing pricks who coached him said.

Bangers Says - Tony Bamford's assessment of Isaac Keeler
”Keels is clearly, in our eyes, the most naturally gifted footballer in his age group.

”Isaac needed to learn at the start of the year that he needed to pull his finger out.

”And to his credit, he did it which was great.

”We started to see some more consistency in both contests, whether it be an aerial contest or a ruck contest.

”We saw him gut running 30, 40, 60m in games which we hadn’t seen before.

”Credit to North Adelaide and Brooksy (U18 coach Craig Brooks) for getting Isaac up around the ground in the ruck and not just leaving him as a forward.

”That has certainly helped his football. Isaac going up into the ruck allowed him to be around the contest more often which required him to defend early by tackling and harrassing, instead of just waiting for his teammates to give him the ball.

”Sticks (Brenton Phillips) and I and Brooksy were pretty hard on Isaac at the start of the year. To Isaac’s credit – I take my hat off to him – he took that feedback on board. When he came into the State program his training intensity grew and rose to a level it needed to be at and we saw that transfer into his game. He’s matured a lot so I am really proud of that.

He is actually like Marshall as a ruck and will be developed the same way.

Keeler was picked in the under 17's in all the teams Phillipou was picked in.

Speculative must apply to Mattaes as well maybe.

We got very lucky and Adelaide knew he wouldn't play for them. North Adelaide might as well be our SANFL club.

[Vortex]

Somewhere between Paddy Ryder and Spencer White

Fact is though

Ryder was a #7 draft pick at Essendon and was a potential star as a junior

Keeler is more speculative

Has a high ceiling but may not reach it.

I'm still waiting for Spencer White to turn into Buddy...hang on.

They say it can be a fine line between speculative and certainty.

Hopefully the young lad can get his debut in the later part of 2024 and give himself a taste of it leading into the pre season for 2025.

[Otiman]

Here's my hot take.

In the Watters, Richo, or Ratten eras, Keeler would absolutely be a bust. This is not a slight on him, but the environment for developing kids was not elite or challenging, and any negative behaviours (if indeed true) would surface.

Under Ross and the current leadership, which includes blokes like Wood, Hill, and the core U22 group (Windy, Nas, Owens, Pou), Keeler has his best chance of succeeding.

Development isn't just gym time, running sessions, and skills sessions. It's about people and team building.

[B.M]

Ross has had plenty of players fail to develop under his coaching, in fact he is notorious for not being a developmental coach (hence the role of Carroll) in days gone by, it’s been reported that he hardly speaks to guys outside the top 26 players - especially if he doesn’t rate them

[TheGreatZacsby]

The kid has got some serious X factor.

I’ve watched a few of his VFL games this year and he turns it up. I hope he debuts this year and gets a string of games going and tag team with Marshall just like Marshall and Ryder and teams were scared of those two.

[TheGreatZacsby]

Ross has had plenty of players fail to develop under his coaching, in fact he is notorious for not being a developmental coach (hence the role of Carroll) in days gone by, it’s been reported that he hardly speaks to guys outside the top 26 players - especially if he doesn’t rate them

I’d argue differently. I’d say Ross has had heaps of players that pay homeage to his development. Lachie Neale has said Ross Lyon really got him going and he’s a brownlow medallist taken late in the draft. Brayshaw is another and he will be future captain at the dockers. You look at the saints I’d say Goddard really got going when Ross was the coach. He broke out and was immense same as Sam Fisher too. In our current list I saw Mason Wood have the best season of his career last year, Mattaes / Owens / NWM all going strong last year.

I think Ross has a track record of developing some serious talent.

[skeptic]

I was rapt when we got Keeler… frankly I’d have taken him earlier than we did.

The reality IMO is that prospects like him are easy to overrate and are always a slower burn at the beginning.

The reason that bigger players are so hit and miss throughout drafts and trades (noting that we’ve recruited/traded for some 30+ ruck prospects since 98 with arguably Marshall the best of them all off the rookie list) is that their size and strength as juniors make them stand out.

The gap however closes exponentially at the top level… especially across the more medium sized players who can play taller.
A guy like Owens for example looks a decent relief ruck despite not really having the major attributes for it.

The ones that succeed tend to be those that develop the agility and motor skills to the next level.

Paddy Ryder is a good comparison in that he was tall… remained fast, with a super leap bit also was a decent mark.

To say that Keeler will be as good as Paddy at this stage seems to me to be more based on a wing as a prayer.

I haven’t seen much of him but most of what I read is that he’s a talented prospect that most are hoping will track to be able to play forward for patches this season.

That seems to me to be about the right expectation for now and I certainly don’t think it’s reasonable suggestion to bank on him being an elite player yet… and moe would I dismiss the prospect. It’s a very big call and not a reasonable one based on the evidence we’ve seen so far IMO.

[CQ SAINT]

Ross has had plenty of players fail to develop under his coaching, in fact he is notorious for not being a developmental coach (hence the role of Carroll) in days gone by, it’s been reported that he hardly speaks to guys outside the top 26 players - especially if he doesn’t rate them

The senior coach has a squad of 25 - 30 established players who come equipped to play. If not, he is a development coach, which was supposed to be Richo's strength.
That panned out really well. Most development coaches fail. It's the nature of development.

Carroll Lenny and Batchelor are the development coaches. Let them cobble.
They will get first class instruction from Dalrymple, who will rotate the duds with new hopefuls. Ross couldn't possibly have time for that but his opinion will be influenced by his senior coaching staff around who earns the right to step up.

We took Shoenmaker and Hastie to develop tall defensive skills, Keeler is training with the main defensive group and confident enough to fly for marks at training.

So hopefully at Sandy we see the VFL squad invite a some promising state league Tall defenders/intercepters, Tall tap winning mids, with agility and marking power and some big bodied mids in there early/mid 20's.

I'd say Dalrymple and Allan are already scouring the countryside for other potential rookies of the same style.

Players who can identify and hone their own deficiencies are the ones Ross would favour and rightly so, hence the clean out started by Ratten and Lethlean and Gallagher managing the TPP correctly, and then completed by Ross and his recruiting team, hence the changes in staff in that area recently and the sharp rise in pace and skill at our disposal now, to work with.

Ross is the Senior Coach. If he doesn't rate them, then someone else probably will and we will get compo. If we don't like with Ball, then there is probably a pay cut and some spite in the mix. Lyon would have learnt something from Ball and has built a team around him to compliment the lesson.

[samoht]

I think it's all up to the individual and his work ethic.
Nicky Winmar in his book mentioned his father as being his best coach (and Nicky played under many AFL coaches).

His dad made him regularly (on a daily basis) get out of the car and run alongside (for 5 kms or more) as he drove, after doing a whole day's worth of hard shearing together.
He got him to chase and tackle pigs on the reservation that they lived in, in muddy conditions. We're talking about a 14 year old Nicky.
It was all this work and preparation that he was willing to do for his dad (Nicky couldn't see the point at the time) - that held him in good stead.
Nicky, throughout his footy career, saw himself as a blue collar/white collar footballer (hard worker with skills), as a result of his upbringing.

I know he occasionally missed training here and there - but he had to blow off some steam (he had his personal on and off field problems).

Jack Steele, similarly - it's his work ethic that sets him apart. He'd be great under any AFL coach.

I'm not sure whether Keeler will be the real deal - but it'll all be up to him, at the end.

[Impatient Sainter]

Somewhere between Paddy Ryder and Spencer White
Fact is though
Ryder was a #7 draft pick at Essendon and was a potential star as a junior
Keeler is more speculative
Has a high ceiling but may not reach it.

I think in the last 3 seasons we have finally got everything right at the club - facilities, recruiting, development, player support, injury management and coaching. A lot is credited to our president Andrew Bassatt for injecting himself into the footballing department and ensuring the best available people and resources were in the right positions.

In the past I think Keeler would have been a speculative pick, and possibly failed. But in the current environment Im confident he will become the player he projects as. Personally I think he is a natural key forward and can become the perfect goal kicking tall forward - part time ruckman. Although it seems the club are going to give him the opportunity as a key defender, either way I think he has the tools to become a very very good player.

[cwrcyn]

His fitness was down last year after missing preseason with knee tendonitis. Fitness and strength will need to improve a lot before he can show his actual potential. He is smart when the ball is on the ground. To me, he's a bit like Spider Everitt and will take a bit more time.

I was astonished he was available at our 4th pick in the draft. Guys his size, mobility and skill are pretty rare. We got a steal with Owens and Wanganeen-Milera. If Keeler has the drive he'll make it

[Yorkeys]

Paddy R had a genius footy brain. Some of his reading of the play. positioning and opportunism was fantastic and coupled with his great ability won us quite a few matches.

I can see why Paddy is referred to as a comparator, however the comparison is a bit stretched at this point, I think.

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

Yes, he will. Provided he wants it badly enough and our development coaches are on the ball. His highlights' videos show he is highly skilled, athletic, and tall. Just what the doctor, or coach ordered.

The question now is can we turn all those raw attributes into high-quality performance? I think RTB and his coaching team, including Damien Carroll and Jake Batchelor, have the nous to make it happen.

It is puzzling that Keeler, who possesses all the attributes AFL clubs seek in a player, slipped as far as he did. Did the other clubs know something that deterred them from selecting him, especially Adelaide, as his NGA club, who had a free hit after pick 40?

In the end, as bad as our recruiting was under Elshaug and Liberatore, it was also our lack of development that did nearly as much damage.

People often wonder why the Swans, Geelong, and Hawthorn did so well without the benefits of early picks. Even allowing for the concessions the Swans were afforded, they were outstanding at taking seemingly GOPs, draft long shots, and turning them into top-notch performers.

Keeler, Collard, Hotton, Van Es, Wilson, and Garcia will give us an ample sample size when assessing the efficacy of our coaching team.

I haven't been this excited, nor more confident about a group of youngsters at our club since 2000-2003. I'm going early. Keeler will be a gun.

[CQ SAINT]

Paddy R had a genius footy brain. Some of his reading of the play. positioning and opportunism was fantastic and coupled with his great ability won us quite a few matches.

I can see why Paddy is referred to as a comparator, however the comparison is a bit stretched at this point, I think.

I saw his father play. He was brilliant. Ran the attack from CHB.
Just naturally competitive and extremely talented, not as flashy but the same ability.

If he gets going and become match hardened he has a very similar pedigree as Paddy.

Paddy was compared to Polly farmer at the same age. The comparison for Keeler and Paddy started early. Im not making it,its been there for 4 years when he ripped a game apart in a final and another when he kicked 4 including the winning goal as a first year under 18.

The best Isaac Keeler he can be will do me.

[Otiman]

I thought I posted this earlier in the day but will have to re-write it. Somehow the previous post is still there so you get two versions of the same take!

If it were the Watters, Richardson, or Ratten eras, Keeler would not have made it if the stated concerns are indeed genuine (I'm believe they are just a collection of opinions from unknown sources).

What's clear now is that in the Lyon era, players are both held accountable, and hold each other accountable in a way that will help any young players keep their career development on track, be motivated and part of team success.

If you can get to the stage in your life where you realise success of the team you're in is the best individual success you can have, then you're more than half way there.

I can see even from the outside that there is a team first mentality that is getting the most out of individuals.

This is a recent trend and shown by players like Campbell, Hill and Wood at the senior level (note all 3 from other clubs), and the replicated young brigade of leaders including Philippou Windhager and Owens (also came to our club in the same period). I don't know if it's attributable directly to Ross and his assistants, but it's coincided with his appointment too closely to be a coincidence.

The end result is that we can select players like Nas and Collard who have reputed "homesick" influences, and players with a reported history like Arie, or someone like Keeler who may need a different type of encouragement to help his success. We can absorb this and take advantage of the talent if our influential team members are positive people.

[B.M]

I think the impact of a coach is massively overrated

Good players play well, poor players don’t

I also don’t think coaches make players, but players certainly make coaches!!!

[magnifisaint]

I think the impact of a coach is massively overrated

Good players play well, poor players don’t

I also don’t think coaches make players, but players certainly make coaches!!!

Really?

Such a generalised rubbish statement.

That is such a naive comment. Would you take Ross Lyon or Scott Watters?

It's a team game after all, not an individual one.

I can't believe that comment!

[Yorkeys]

I think the impact of a coach is massively overrated

Good players play well, poor players don’t

I also don’t think coaches make players, but players certainly make coaches!!!

Rather simplistic and hardly demonstrable in a scientific sense*. Surely its a symbiotic relationship with many moving parts, not an either or.
Anyway, most elite professional sports seem to disagree with you on your main point, although it is fair to observe that good players are better than poor players and that is very rarely disputed.


* Ted Hopkins introduction to the famous Blues v Pies GF by R. Barrassi, seems quite an astute move whereby a bog ordinary player was deployed such that a GF was won from a long way back. Of course that could be an anomalous accident.
* Brisbane were the more talented team in last year's GF but Coach Fagan coached badly and a number of his players were not prepared, were overawed early, lacked composure late. These are normally excellent, composed players.

[Banger9798]

I think the impact of a coach is massively overrated

Good players play well, poor players don’t

I also don’t think coaches make players, but players certainly make coaches!!!

The culture around effort, excellence and team first is created by the coaching group and club leaders.

Someone like Isaac is going to be significantly influenced by the culture he enters, and the expectations he places on himself.

[B.M]

It is a team game

And it takes a good team to win

I’ll tell you something - the team with the best list (and the least injuries to key players) will win the premiership

I’ve seen great premiership coaches absolutely fail at clubs without great lists.

This naive view that a coach will be the saviour is ridiculous imo

Simon Goodwin
Great list
Premiership coach
Then 2 straight sets exits
Is he the reason Melbourne are good

Adam Simpson
Premiership coach
Now basket case

Alistair Clarkson
4 time premiership coach
Let’s look at how he goes in the next two seasons before his army of FRDPs mature
Moreso - how’d he go in his last few years at Hawthorn.

Give me the name of a premship coach
And I’ll tell you where they have failed

[CQ SAINT]

I agree it comes down to the player himself.
The thing I like about Ross is, you have to do the work, but I reckon he doesn't lose sleep after 3 serious injuries or form slumps.

He could easily write off Membrey but apparently Members is looking pretty sharp.

If he isn't staring by round 6 he could be on the trade table but I dont think we would need to be concerned if he is.

[B.M]

Ross, I reckon through his own admission- unless he is that pig-headed

Would admit he’s made some mistakes with his handling of certain players

I know an ex player who was definitely not a fan - only became a quality player after Ross left.

[nostalgicsaint]

It is a team game

And it takes a good team to win

I’ll tell you something - the team with the best list (and the least injuries to key players) will win the premiership

I’ve seen great premiership coaches absolutely fail at clubs without great lists.

This naive view that a coach will be the saviour is ridiculous imo

Simon Goodwin
Great list
Premiership coach
Then 2 straight sets exits
Is he the reason Melbourne are good

Adam Simpson
Premiership coach
Now basket case

Alistair Clarkson
4 time premiership coach
Let’s look at how he goes in the next two seasons before his army of FRDPs mature
Moreso - how’d he go in his last few years at Hawthorn.

Give me the name of a premship coach
And I’ll tell you where they have failed

This is a horribly flawed argument imo.

The measure of quality in anything is sustained success not examples of once off success.

If you learn anything in business or sport- the combination of talent and environment is the most important thing. Coaches are seen as key because the control environment in most cases.

Yes one without the other can yield results in some circumstance but to deliver sustained success you need both.