Dan McKenzie

[B.M]

Still don’t know why we paid for him to fly to Germany and see a specialist

For his own or another team’s benefit

[CQ SAINT]

Still don’t know why we paid for him to fly to Germany and see a specialist

For his own or another team’s benefit

Probably a work cover or insurance claim.

https://www.aflq.com.au/player-insuranc ... nd-claims/

Definitely not incompetence. We didn't re employ him but gave him every chance to continue playing and paid out his contract.

Clearly Billings wasn’t ready to make that claim here but Melbourne have the same insurance cover, it's in the player agreements and standard employment injuries cover.

Hardly worth a headline

[B.M]

Work cover - you get flown to Germany now?

Maybe I should blow a calf at work?

I actually think it was our idea, to try and get him right - fair enough

If we delisted him


Billings? wtf has he got to do with it?


We are paying him 250k to play at Melbourne
Maybe we should send him to Switzerland so Melbourne can benefit


Call it what you want - I’ll call it dumb (typically)

[saintsRrising]

Still don’t know why we paid for him to fly to Germany and see a specialist

For his own or another team’s benefit

Is it really that hard to understand?

Because when he went, he was still a chance to be a St Kilda player in 2024.

So it was for St Kilda's benefit.


Then :

1/ The club I am pretty sure drafted much better than they hoped they would.
2/ And then along came Bonner after Port delisted him snuffing out Dmac's chance of playing at the Saints in 2024.

So in short we were looking at Dmac playing on in 2024, but the club decided we had a better option. This is a good result.


Do you prefer to the club to just keep ging through the motions, and to have kept on Coffield, Billings, Dmac and Gresh?

Personally I think our 2024 list is improved on our 2023 list, and has also added a lot of good young talent.

I am the most bullish I have been about our future since 2010!


One can argue about individual draft picks ,or trades made in 2024, but the Club has as a whole I personally think the club has done exceptionally well.
This includes some hard calls on who had to go to make way for new talent.

[shanegrambeau]

Work cover - you get flown to Germany now?

Maybe I should blow a calf at work?

I actually think it was our idea, to try and get him right - fair enough

If we delisted him


Billings? wtf has he got to do with it?


We are paying him 250k to play at Melbourne
Maybe we should send him to Switzerland so Melbourne can benefit


Call it what you want - I’ll call it dumb (typically)

Can or worms issues ...

When can we sue the AFL for a calf injury?

Concussion is already in the courts...
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... insurance/

Class action

Legacy injuries going back to the '80s

Clubs are paid by the AFL, which is paid by TV rights, which is paid by advertising, including insurance companies ads.

Could Jack Billings sue the AFL for his hammies, calf? Which led to his back? Which led to his loss of potential, which led to his trade...?

It is scary stuff. Dark world. Darth Vaderish

[CQ SAINT]

Whe you earn 6 figure salaries, you are valuable. But If you don’t earn that kind of money, work cover won't deny you the best cover.

These xperts take data and run studies, they are well paid and don't charge what they could for a private client. The main cost would have been travel, accommodation and expenses, all covered by work cover no matter who you are. Your boss would just pay you out and send you away but work cover wouldn't let them.

$250K is chicken feed. Under the new agreement ita a little over half the average afl wage. That means Billings is now average and is being paid on potential recovery, like a recruit, after 2 years in the system. 4 x $500k. We clearly have paid him enough for nothing already in the last two years.
He could have been the richest player in the VFL, but chose not to be.

That's what his last contract was after Essendon rejected him for a smaller contract on more money.

The only time Billings has allowed himself to go under an intense assessment was 2020 when Essendon came calling. He has had several injuries and done rehab and recovered.

At the time he was tested by Essendon, we were both chasing Jye Caldwell, also under a cloud butt potentially much better than Billings.

We lost and got stuck with Billings.

In 2020, it became very evident what Billings and his doctor had been going through to get himon the field in previous years.

That was stopped and he earnt minimum match payments and didn't get near any milestones that would improve things for him.

No one but Melbourne were interested and it went to the death.

Jack has never entered the long term injury list, which would require intense examination, that would prove what Shane above has said, by way of an injury compensation claim. Then the authority would decide when he was recovered and pain killers could not be used to play.

Now Misson is in charge the view on this would be very different to when Lethlean was in charge. Play someone else. Henry will do nicely, thank you.

Jarryd Allen was rookie listed by agreement, retired and we couldn't use his spot due to him having a workcover claim. It was a contractual right for him and the responsibility of the club to not delist him.

McCartin went through a similar deal with us.

Hanners chose not too but it's reported internally he never earnt much after his first two years, which were extremely front ended because of claused milestones in his contract and we had a war chest that was about to disappear into the ether as unspent cap from the previous years.

It's not stupid, it's the law.

[Vortex]

I am the most bullish I have been about our future since 2010!

When do you see us being in premiership contention?

[B.M]

I think we should pay half the salary of all the players we trade

Good business model - smart!

I also think we should fly players around the world that we are about to delist - so they can play elsewhere- also smart

Dress it up anyway you want.

Work Cover

Flies people overseas now and pays you to see surgeons in another country?

[saintsRrising]

I am the most bullish I have been about our future since 2010!

When do you see us being in premiership contention?

I can see us getting better each year for the next 4 years. Longer if we keep drafting /trading like we have done in recent year.


This year would probably be too early and would require EVERYTHING to go right such as:
- Dow being the burst mid we have long lacked
- Steele getting back to AA (nearish) form
- King being the key forward that we have seen in glimpses
- Low injuries
- Having many players ger better- Higgins rounding out his game
-Owens and Phillipou both improving, and also playing well for the whole season
- Henry slotting in to hep make us better and quicker
- Marshall being fit for the whole year

I mainly see this year as setting us up to contend.

[CQ SAINT]

I think we should pay half the salary of all the players we trade

Good business model - smart!

I also think we should fly players around the world that we are about to delist - so they can play elsewhere- also smart

Dress it up anyway you want.

Work Cover

Flies people overseas now and pays you to see surgeons in another country?

Keeping him would have been an emotional reaction that would have cost a million.

The money we saved payed for 2 years of Wilson and Garcia with change.

Great decision.

Jack is struggling to do a preseason again.

And yes. If there is a specialist who isn't available here and the injury hasn't been fixed, then it wouldn't be hard to get a referral saying the cost would be reasonable to save a $300-$400k per year salary.

It's much better than paying out his last minimum contract and have him claim for losses due to injury, to think otherwise would be dumb.

But you can believe what ever you like. You generally make stuff up to suit your own view, even in the face of undeniable evidence. Don't stop on my account, I'm enjoying our interactions.

[B.M]

Seriously

Who are you kidding- yourself??

Stop drinking kool aide and be a realist instead of a club apologist

[CQ SAINT]

Seriously

Who are you kidding- yourself??

Stop drinking kool aide and be a realist instead of a club apologist

Why would I apologise for the club getting rid of Billings and recruiting two kids with the spare cash.

And I'm pissing myself laughing that you might consider yourself a realist. The word would be pessimist.

You're just very disagreeable and it appears to be based a very narrow and naive outlook. Like Billings was a great servant of the club and we should respect the sub standard efforts he put up for more than half his career.

Your gushing over him is delusional.

[B.M]

We got rid of Billings - and are paying for him to play at another club

You know it makes sense!!!!

Smart move indeed!!!!

Pick 64 and 250k lol

[Yorkeys]

We got rid of Billings - and are paying for him to play at another club

You know it makes sense!!!!

Smart move indeed!!!!

Pick 64 and 250k lol

Are you assuming JB would be playing firsts every week, ignoring his capacity to be often injured for long periods and think he would kick 35 or more goals this year. Or arguing club should pay him $500k to stroll around in the VFL.

Because he wouldn't be playing firsts unless there was a catastrophic run of injuries to the small forwards and he himself would have regular injuries; can't ignore his record.
Sometimes you can't make a profit on an investment. Cut the losses, don't throw good after bad while ignoring the reality.

[shanegrambeau]

May it be so?

In certain scenarios, (salary caps, limited lists, priority picks, subsidies) it is to the advantage of Club A, to actually to pay Club B to accommodate a player on the latter's list, if that player could uncharitably, but ultimately be described as a 'list clogger'?

[B.M]

Why would Melbourne take on a list clogger?

[Yorkeys]

Ah, questions: why would Melbourne lose 4 finals in a row with the best squad; why employ AR, why unable to manage Oliver, why did Smith do drugs and get suspended, why did May and team mate have a punch up, why did it recruit Jack Watts.......so many ??s

[TimeToShineFellas]

Seriously

Who are you kidding- yourself??

Stop drinking kool aide and be a realist instead of a club apologist

Why would I apologise for the club getting rid of Billings and recruiting two kids with the spare cash.

And I'm pissing myself laughing that you might consider yourself a realist. The word would be pessimist.

You're just very disagreeable and it appears to be based a very narrow and naive outlook. Like Billings was a great servant of the club and we should respect the sub standard efforts he put up for more than half his career.

Your gushing over him is delusional.

You know what CQ SAINT, I wouldn't even get into the Billings issues.

We will have plenty of time to remind the argumentative one as to how poorly Billings will go next week in Season 2024 on a regular basis.

[Scollop]

Why would Melbourne take on a list clogger?

Because there is a senior administrator who influenced their footy department and his nickname is Cho

History suggests he's made the wrong call, similar to his poor decision making when he was senior coach of the Saints

[B.M]

Haven’t they won a premiership recently?

[shanegrambeau]

Player A might be a list clogger at Club X
But he might not be one at Club Y

In our case JB was one of the classier players and his purple patch, if you like, was probably ‘16-‘18, where across those seasons he kicked 50 odd goals and about 70 behinds.

It’s hard to argue he gave much value after that, with his back and other injuries, which were not his fault of course.

It seems that he was over rated when he got that that big contract.

At Melbourne, who knows. Maybe he won’t be the Dutchman and no clogs are required.

[B.M]

Was he injured?

[CQ SAINT]

Was he injured?

No he just likes minor surgery on his back, 1year before his manager screamed for an offer, to take care of an injury, he never had since the last time he was out of contract and then played 13 games in two years.

I think it might have been a spare tyre or something silly like that.

[B.M]

Cynical view

Minor back surgery (if there is such a thing) can lead to some other issues- namely hamstring problems

It’s funny JB is now a villain- having played 155 games

I bet you were cheering him on when he booted 4 in the last quarter to seal a come from behind win vs the Bulldogs

He’s gone to Melbourne for a fresh start after a couple of injury interrupted seasons

Fair play imo

[shanegrambeau]

Don’t think it’s got anything to do with JB being a good bloke or not.

Are we being competitive? That is the question.

May 26th
Melbourne vs St Kilda

If JB isn’t their firsts by then, whatsabet he shows up then?