Roughead resigns

[skeptic]

I doubt Melbourne won a premiership because of Richo

[Yorkeys]

I doubt Melbourne won a premiership because of Richo

Despite AR.
Seems to be having more trouble with his flock the longer he's been there. But that might be coincidental.

Kingsley developed well once away from AR, but that could be coincidence.

We improved after AR, but that might have been a case of a list bottoming out so it can't get worse and he had bad luck. He only had 6 years.

[CQ SAINT]

Richo is like Buckley. He has a really good case study of what went wrong and what he m couldn't accomplish.

He couldn't develop leaders.

Steele was developed by Geary by the looks. Richo set up profession leadership camps and education, but to what end.

Free fishing trips in Arnhem Land and at Longs place.

Overseas trips for meditation after Geary takes a poke in a review and then someone rang Ratten, another false Prophet/Hawthorn disciple.

In Ross we Trust.

[skeptic]

I’d be really p’off if I was Buckley in that scenario

[B.M]

Obviously not because of Richo

It was because of Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, May, Lever, Fritch etc

But he was part of premiership.


I would love to know, which season between 2013 and 2019 at StK should we have finished higher on the ladder?

[Yorkeys]

Obviously not because of Richo

It was because of Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, May, Lever, Fritch etc

But he was part of premiership.


I would love to know, which season between 2013 and 2019 at StK should we have finished higher on the ladder?

Not so much ladder positions but how the team played, which might be described as generally listless, sometimes appalling, hardly ever showed serious fighting spirit. Certain players were favoured over others. Just seemed to be going through the motions of playing not really competing. But I am talking through my pocket. Nevertheless I think AR was a weak coach emotionally distant from the team.

[skeptic]

2017
2018
2019

[B.M]

List was awful in those years

2015-2017 we were a 9-12 list
13-14 bottom 4 list
18-19 bottom 4 list

We bungled a rebuild in 2012-2014 and it ultimately saw us finish out of the finals for a decade.
You CANNOT bottom out and make poor draft and list management decisions!
You NEVER recover

[skeptic]

2017 we should have made finals.
We were a game clear inside the 8 with 5-6 rounds to go and finished the year poorly including a big upset loss to lowly Essendon who came to play and we didn’t.

2018 - we should have played finals again. AR needed to address the clear deficiencies of the list, get the fitness up and stop playing those who were woefully out of form.
He failed on all counts and we bottomed out.

2019 is the same deal as 2018.

The sign that AR was a terrible coach is about the decisions that he made and he doubled down on a number of bad ones…
His backing in Longer, over reliance on terrible small forwards that were slow or lack skill and the overall lack of fitness of the squad.

Yeah you can only do so much with the squad you have but at some point you have to look at the fact that Marshall started playing when Longer, Hickey and Pierce all went down and he overtook them pretty quickly. He got his opportunity due to injury.
Newnes had to drop himself he was so out of form

AR has to own some of that. Most if it in fact. Putting it down to the list/cattle absolves him of the autonomy he had. If it was the list, why didn’t he turn it over?
Nobody was willing to come to St.Kilda… except a bunch came in 2019 and we made finals in 2020.

Reality is that we were poorly coached with a lazy culture over Richo’s period and the opposition knew it. Dunstan didn’t reach proper match fitness for 5 years in the AR… if you were an aspiring mid wanting a change, why would you come to a club where Newnes was a walk up start despite not laying a tackle for 15 rounds, every player was too afraid to have a shot for goal from further than 30m out and Longer was untouchable.

[CQ SAINT]

AR was a top bloke.

[B.M]

Not sure I agree with that?

I think people on here believe the Senior Coach has control and responsibility over every aspect of the club

Simply not the case, and why we have people employed on big money to do those jobs

No senior coach has drafted a player since probably the 80s

No senior coach has been in charge of fitness for decades

Now match committee selects teams

Assistant coaches run training

Ross jokingly said the other day he doesn’t even know what’s going on, and he just collects balls and witches hats!
That’s facetious obviously

But this notion that a senior coach does everything is very naive

I think Ross sets the standards to adhere to
And manages his assistants
Ticks off on the game plan
Manages match day strategy and tactics
Builds relationships

He doesn’t control (nor does any coach)
The drafting - what does he know about draftees
The list management - he hasn’t got the economic background
The fitness of players- he hasn’t done a sports science degree
Injuries- has NO medical training


This is NOT the 1970s

[skeptic]

I’ve given you a list of reasons of why it was bad. And points that you haven’t addressed at that.

That’s fine

But I believe that in measuring a coach’s performance… don’t necessarily matter as as you’ve pointed out they need a cattle.

A team might not win many games but still be coached well and play to his lower bar of potential.

Not withstanding
- Fitness
- Skills
- Results
- Players Improving under his tenure
- An attractive brand of football

Why don’t you demonstrate the great things he did with us in 6 years that suggest he an underrated great coach with a mediocre list. What are the metrics of good coaching, great moves, philosophies and legacy he left behind

And then go on and share with us how he contributed to the Melbourne dynasty.

Me personally… I have him down as the most mediocre coach of my lifetime at the helm of our club.
Watson had the sense to realise he sucked and quit

Watters was shown the door before he did too much damage and was at least turning the list over

Blight checked out but at least his name got us a high membership and walked some players to the club.

Richo is the second longest serving coach in our history (or was) - he had a better run at it than Sheldon, Alves and GT and things just got worse and worse.
Pretty much the trick to Ratten and RTB is undo the things he had in place

[B.M]

Chicken or egg

What was worse

The list mismanagement and poor drafting or the coaching

Because when the former is bad - the latter is irrelevant

[Waltzing St Kilda]

The Saints bottomed out as GWS and GCS were soaking up the top draft picks. And even then we botched our selections.

Tom Lee ... McCartin ... Billings ... Lonie ... etc.

Difficult to make a silk purse out a sow's ear but Richo's bland playing style and inexplicable match-selection moves made for a perfect storm of mediocrity.

[skeptic]

Chicken or egg

What was worse

The list mismanagement and poor drafting or the coaching

Because when the former is bad - the latter is irrelevant

It’s not because he could have still coached what he had to the best of their ability. Do you think that list consistently played to its potential?

Or better yet… actually try to answer this one: between Hickey who flourished at Sydney or Dunstan who began to run out games when he realised Ratten was going to cut him… to Lonie/Kent/Billings/Membrey/Bruce and the plethora of players that were unreliable and scared to have shots from outside 30m for a time…
Do you think it was just a lack of ability that held them back?

[shanegrambeau]

2017 we should have made finals.
...

2016 is a frustrating read..

https://afltables.com/afl/seas/2016.html

Started poorly and were 1-4 after five rounds.

Yet we missed the finals by %

Looking at the results is nuts.

We would win by 40, then lose by 50

Beat some fancied teams, and then get absolutely clobbered the following week. (West Coast 103 pts, Adelaide 88 points)

It is hard to love the coaching program with these results in the newspaper week to week as a fan.

[B.M]

2016 was a pretty good effort - just missing the 8 with a middling list

Heck, everyone’s whipping boy Seb Ross was one of our best players

34yo N.Reiwoldt won the B&F
Tim Membrey won the goal kicking

And we had a bunch of busts from 2011-2014 drafts

The list was not good

[shanegrambeau]

2016 was a pretty good effort - just missing the 8 with a middling list

Heck, everyone’s whipping boy Seb Ross was one of our best players

34yo N.Reiwoldt won the B&F
Tim Membrey won the goal kicking

And we had a bunch of busts from 2011-2014 drafts

The list was not good

The side was a time-bomb.
We thrashed Brisbane last Round, with Gilbert 32, Joey 32/3, Sam Fischer 34, Rooey 34 and nine goals!
And we had Weller, Newnes , and a few alsorans, together with Seb Ross at his best, Jack Steven, And Dylan Roberton .
Again, it's is amazing that we went so well into 2017 then fell off a cliff never to recover.

[Vazelos]

I’m 100% with skeptic Richardson was a poor coach that got way too many years he is the luckiest coach in our history even beating Thomas who had no place coaching the greatest list this club ever had.
I cringed seeing our CEO Finnis tearing up at Richardson exit media interviews that’s a leader of a business who got too close to his staff and couldn’t make the appropriate decisions the club needed.
AR- game plan- his manic press was very poorly executed he never understood how to tactically implement this the amount of times I saw opposition get out the back and run into open goals was extraordinary.

B.M says a coach has no influence on fitness?
You are off the mark there.
Have you seen Ross Lyon 1.0 influence after taking over from Thomas and Ross Lyon 2.0 what he achieved last year?
These new running standards have everything to do with the coach he placed the fitness team in the club and set the standards to what they work towards.

All the people at the club now are Ross people his imprint is everywhere we have gone all in with Ross Lyon from the fitness staff, recruiting staff to assistant coaches etc

Richardson was the most vanilla average coach that apparently was a strong developer he failed dismally that’s why he never got another senior coaching job.

[spert]

I think Rough Head took on his role probably for self development, and has now moved on to look for the next opportunity. I hope we don't lose Enright any time soon, though he seems more involved in the whole coaching setup, with his multiple premiership experience, and time spent at a modern successful club around successful people, I actually would have liked him as coach over Lyon, but I hope Lyon takes us to the next step all the same.

[CQ SAINT]

I hate to leave if I was Corey Enright. If we win another flag before Geelong, he could be set for 10 years.

[magnifisaint]

Looks like Roughead used the club for his own development. I'm not sure he gave the club much in return. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Nth Melb to work for Clarkson.

[B.M]

Wasn’t he involved in recruiting last two seasons?

Hasn’t our recruiting team done ok recently?

How do we measure his success or failure? How do we form uninformed opinions about him???

[magnifisaint]

Wasn’t he involved in recruiting last two seasons?

Hasn’t our recruiting team done ok recently?

How do we measure his success or failure? How do we form uninformed opinions about him???

By what has been written about him in the papers and what others in the club have said about him in the press. I haven't heard much. Maybe the silence says it all.

[B.M]

I think we just make s*** up?

Our opinions are formed by results and we love scapegoats