Sharman will become the GOAT in 2024....

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

Cooper is also by far the most reliable set-shot kick for goal we've got. That's not an abundant skill when it comes to our team.

I've been impressed with Coops since day one. As BM tells us, development is rarely, if ever, linear. As we all know, Coops got off to a flying start with his impressive range of skills on display.

Far from his development stalling, he has quietly gone about adding a few more bows to his quiver. First in defence, then as a defensive forward and finally back to where it all started for him. That is as that 3rd tall forward.

He gave us a glimpse of the future in the final last year. I'm excited by what he will become.

[Vortex]

This is worth a look. Saints Key Forwards 23 and under.

Hmmm…

Caminati appears to have had a much better season than I remember

I wonder though if the game by game stats confirm Sharman finished off the stronger.

[saintsRrising]

This is worth a look. Saints Key Forwards 23 and under.

Thanks. So if we use that data and then apply the Vortex Rating System (Patent Pending) to them Sharman, Caminiti and Owens are all duds who should be delisted.

[Yorkeys]

If "data" is the gold standard why is the best and fairest player of the year chosen by umpires voting rather than a computer program. How would champion data's listing's rate a player like C. Rioli in a blind ranking exercise. Or Ted Hopkins who won a GF compared to N. Buckley, say. How is input vs output calibrated?

[B.M]

I think data is more accurate than the ‘eye test’

You just need the right data

Cyril Rioli was overrated - good player but a fan/media favourite who’s reputation outweighs his output

He was obviously a good player
No better or not as good as Milne, Betts, Farmer etc

[Otiman]

You can't boil it down to one stat, but with trends and interpretation they can be very poweful, in this case they can be helpful to prove or disprove some points from this thread.

Sharman:
Goal accuracy 65% is great
Spoils (from his time in defense and playing on rebound defenders)

Caminiti:
Pressure acts and tackles
Offensive 1v1 contents high - potential if his win% can improve
On par with Sharman for overall output at 3 years younger
Hitouts (not included)
More marks on the lead than the others

Similar:
Goals
Goal assists
Score Involvements
Marks
Contested Marks

[saynta]

i before e except after c.

Disleksia but I manage to make piont clear with help from freinds.

[King Max]

This is worth a look. Saints Key Forwards 23 and under.

Thanks. So if we use that data and then apply the Vortex Rating System (Patent Pending) to them Sharman, Caminiti and Owens are all duds who should be delisted.

Sharman started as sub for 5 games. So his averages are actually better than they look. I’d keep,Sharman and delist the other duds.

[Otiman]

Not by enough to skew the stats too much

[whiskers3614]

I think data is more accurate than the ‘eye test’

You just need the right data

Cyril Rioli was overrated - good player but a fan/media favourite who’s reputation outweighs his output

He was obviously a good player
No better or not as good as Milne, Betts, Farmer etc

How many Gf’s did Milne star in?
Reputations are made in Gf’s!

[skeptic]

WTF was Ross talking about wrt to Tom Lynch’s running?

He was an elite runner for a 192

He ran a 14 beep test in his draft year and his strength was his repeat hit up ability

That’s really poor knowledge of players, let alone coaching of your own player - you’re done?!

No wonder Lynch wanted out of StK

It’s fascinating isn’t it?

I mean RTB isn’t a stupid man nor a lazy/ill-prepared sort.

But it seems (on face value) that there’s some weird bias in play here and to be honest, many of the criticisms I had of V1.0 were along these lines.

My feeling is that the best version of him needs to be challenged by ppl he respects . Seems like Hayes, Harvey, Enright, Goddard etc seem like a group that will do that.

[B.M]

Obviously

Robert Harvey, Nick Reiwoldt, Tony Lockett, Trevor Barker, are not as good as Jason Castagna, Jake Arts, Nathan Broad, Kane Lambert then?

Reputation is made over a career - not off 1 game - otherwise Nicky Winmar is not as good as Michal Long
And I’ll stand fkd if I believe that

[B.M]

If he is challenged - he will end the career of that person

Cough Nick Walsh

[CQ SAINT]

WTF was Ross talking about wrt to Tom Lynch’s running?

He was an elite runner for a 192

He ran a 14 beep test in his draft year and his strength was his repeat hit up ability

That’s really poor knowledge of players, let alone coaching of your own player - you’re done?!

No wonder Lynch wanted out of StK

It’s fascinating isn’t it?

I mean RTB isn’t a stupid man nor a lazy/ill-prepared sort.

But it seems (on face value) that there’s some weird bias in play here and to be honest, many of the criticisms I had of V1.0 were along these lines.

My feeling is that the best version of him needs to be challenged by ppl he respects . Seems like Hayes, Harvey, Enright, Goddard etc seem like a group that will do that.

Tom Lynch took 7 years to play 50 games. What the hell does a beep test have to do with that.

Clearly he was full of himself and anyone who thought he was a loss was kidding themselves and revised the last hundred games of his career which also took 7 years.

False idols and hero worshipping again

[The Fireman]

I hero worshipped plugger


there I said it

[CQ SAINT]

I hero worshipped plugger


there I said it

Me too.

[Vortex]

This is worth a look. Saints Key Forwards 23 and under.

Thanks. So if we use that data and then apply the Vortex Rating System (Patent Pending) to them Sharman, Caminiti and Owens are all duds who should be delisted.

Patent infringement aside, the system needs a much bigger sample size before declaring dud status.

[Vortex]

If "data" is the gold standard why is the best and fairest player of the year chosen by umpires voting rather than a computer program. How would champion data's listing's rate a player like C. Rioli in a blind ranking exercise. Or Ted Hopkins who won a GF compared to N. Buckley, say. How is input vs output calibrated?

Actually!

Up until this season the umpires used to use their phones to checks games stats before casting their votes.


Interestingly this year's vote count had incredibly odd irregularities that were significantly inconsistent with the stats, I read one piece that cited at least 40 examples where the umpire got it horribly wrong.

The brownlow is really a popularity award more than anything.

[B.M]

The umpires should definitely refer to stats

They spend the game focusing on their own performance then have to evaluate the players- over the course of history there has been some bizarre voting

[Yorkeys]

I suggest players be given 4 reviews so votes in any particular match can be challenged and sent to an independent panel of three umpires. The Brownlow count could extend to the whole month of September. Wags could then model sportsware, casual elegance and pyjamas as well as evening gowns. Big for ratings, betting companies, fashion industry. Fox could have a dedicated channel.

[The Fireman]

Why does anyone really care about the Brownlow ? We know it’s an award given by umpires. Not coaches. Not other players. Not even supporters. It is what it is. they can give that award anyway they like
The award itself has become famous for being famous. It’s a flimsy award that is given way too much gravitas . So be like me sit back, check out the wags and the drunken footballers.

[Yorkeys]

Why does anyone really care about the Brownlow ? We know it’s an award given by umpires. Not coaches. Not other players. Not even supporters. It is what it is. they can give that award anyway they like
The award itself has become famous for being famous. It’s a flimsy award that is given way too much gravitas . So be like me sit back, check out the wags and the drunken footballers.

Pretty sure not many do. Although I didn't feel that way when Harvs was winning.

[B.M]

I don’t know???

Maybe the 100years of tradition

There is an AFLPA award and a coaches award and media awards

Brownlow most prestigious

[shanegrambeau]

To win the Brownlow Medal is gold, gold, GOLD.

It is a golden pass to future security.

"Our annual dinner (our Winery Tour, our cruise lunch, our motivational speech mentor awards key-note speaker etc. etc.) will feature Brownlow Medalist (for those new to O-see football, it is the game's most prestigious award), it is, Mr. Shanos Grambonosokakis".
Please put your hands together for Shanos. "

"Thank you, thank you..I'm quite brilliant"

back to the real world
Getting the Brownlow would 'almost' set you up for life in post-football. I say 'almost' because the usual traps and risks apply, especially with some fame.

I think media, coaching, sponsorships, promotions, board memberships etc. will be in the package.

It might be like the rock n roll hall of fame. The fact that it is corrupt and dodgy almost enhances its appeal. It seems like a 'slippery diamond'.

[skeptic]

As the competition has become increasingly and more obviously uneven, unfair and all round corrupt…
These things tend to lose their lustre.

Best and fairest in a competition where one team gets 17+ home games a year and hasn’t been to Geelong for an age… where Barry Hall unprovokingly punched a player in the got off the ball and played in a grand final the following week, meanwhile we’ve played Port in Melbourne twice in like 15 years, where a Collingwood player knocked out an opposition player on the first week of the finals and played again etc

I know that the above isn’t the umpires… but best and fairest feels like a laughable concept at this point. I can honestly say I don’t care about it anymore